Post-Nats Articles

[Hsuhs]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/figureskating/news/story?id=3859798&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

With just about everybody complaining that the new judging system has stripped skating of all of its beauty and artistry, Abbott showed that it can still be done. And done well.

"I don't think that the new system is a hindrance to artistry at all," Abbott said. "I think you really just have to find what drives you as your art and really just stick to that and be true to that."

I like what he said.

 

[Mathman]

Although...I think he could be just as artistic without that blue lace hanky hanging out of his pants pocket in the SP...

 

[meem]

So *that's* what it was? A lace hanky? I'm wondering if I'm the only competitive figure skating fan who is really tired of seeing male skaters wearing increasingly flamboyant costumes. It's not that I want them all to wear the uniform of black turtleneck and black jeans...but it seems to me that some of these costumes are quite gaudy. The ladies' costumes pale in comparison!

 

[brightphoton]

You know what, I liked Jeremy's translucent blue fabric! It flowed in the air as he skated and spun, like he's skating through a cloud. More skaters should choose clothes like that. It gives variety to the sport. Evan's alternation of black, dark brown, black, dark brown is stifling boring.

 

[centerpt1]

With that sparklely buckle, I think Jeremy's hip sail is supposed to be a sash (well, the trailing end of it. ????

 

[shallwedansu]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR2009012502112.html?hpid=topnews

The U.S. Figure Skating Championships, which ended here Sunday, offered further evidence that the U.S. women's program is mired in its deepest drought in at least 14 years -- and possibly several decades -- with the Olympics in Vancouver, B.C., just over a year away.

"We just don't have that star," said skating coach Robin Wagner, who led Sarah Hughes to her 2002 Olympic gold medal. "We're so used to having the queen of figure skating in our country."

 

[iceminx]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/25/AR2009012502112.html?hpid=topnews

that's funny. I hope she didn't consider sarah a "queen" when she had a complete surprise win and then faded into obscurity after failing to ever skate that well again. The last 2 considered "QUEENS" :Michelle is gone, Sasha may not come back, and Alissa,Caroline, and Mirai are our best hopes for another "queen".

 

[Buttercup]

"I don't really think it's quite as much that the American ladies are deteriorating as much as other countries have gotten a great deal better," said longtime U.S. coach John Nicks, who has coached Cohen, Fleming and Yamaguchi. "Except from [1992 Olympic silver medal winner] Midori Ito a few years ago, we didn't have any threat in skating from Japan or Asia."

That's from the WaPo article, and I think it's true. Well, other than Lu Chen, maybe. I would argue that a bigger problem is that US ladies tend to break through young, generate a lot of excitement and expectations - and then retire young, while skaters from elsewhere stick around longer and have more time to develop artisitically even if they didn't have the elegance and maturity to begin with.

Sarah Hughes would not have been a queen, a princess or whatever one might want to call her under the current system. Kwan would definitely be able to work it by maximizing non-jump elements and through PCS and technique, but she'd already had an amazing career and I understand her wanting to move on to other things.

I was quite amused that Scott Hamilton suggested that "we have emphasized crowd appeal, the artistic side of it, everybody being unique and having a real sense of showmanship... that doesn't seem to be as valued as in the past." Yes, we all know about the clone-like international skaters, they all do same programs! Mao and Yu-Na and Joannie are so boring and so alike. And Carolina and Fumie, why, they are exactly the same!

 

[dorispulaski]

Scott may not have been talking about international skaters. He may have been talking about USFS.

Frankly, USFS seems (and has seemed) absolutely determined to hammer all US skaters out on a Procrustean bed into little clones skating to tinkly classical music or Spanish/Latin stuff, both men and women. Abbott talks about his artistry, but the only image that I remember of him is an supremely unflattering photo of him in mid jump. I have seen him skate live at 3 events over the years, and 4 events this year on IN. . I still couldn't tell you what he skated to. I couldn't describe a single skill or element that remains in my memory. Well maybe I have an image of his 3A because I saw it yesterday, but it will fade in a week.

And I would submit that that is not artistry. Art should at the very lowest bar be memorable.

Patrick Chan who skates to similar music to Jeremy has edges so remarkable you remember them even if he is skating badly.

Who could forget Tomas Verner's programs, or even the not artistic K VDP's 3/3/3?

Evan has a dynamism. His F/W fills the rink. Even if he persists in skating to Spanish/Latin and Bolero.

Ryan Bradley has a humorous charm and I can remember large sections of programs by him that I have seen, particularly his "Happy Birthday" SP.

I can even remember in parts of the skating of Timothy Goebel, particularly in his American in Pairs routine in 2003.

Heck, I can remember large sections of Ross Miner's LP, the current Jr champion. I can remember Brandon Mroz's first Senior SP at Liberty. And I'll never forget Brandon's LP this week.

But not Jeremy Abbott. He is the Nancy Kerrigan of this era, always acclaimed as an artist, but frankly not making the cut.

Mroz should have won this championship IMO, if only for skating to Til Eulenspiegel with a funny watch chain.

 

[Buttercup]

Frankly, USFS seems (and has seemed) absolutely determined to hammer all US skaters out on a Procrustean bed into little clones skating to tinkly classical music or Spanish/Latin stuff, both men and women. Abbott talks about his artistry, but the only image that I remember of him is an supremely unflattering photo of him in mid jump. I have seen him skate live at 3 events over the years, and 4 events this year on IN. . I still couldn't tell you what he skated to. I couldn't describe a single skill or element that remains in my memory. Well maybe I have an image of his 3A because I saw it yesterday, but it will fade in a week.

Hi Doris, took some time for me to be able to get to your post. I agree with the first part of what I quoted. If this is what Scott Hamilton was referring to - though I don't think it was - then there's no problem for me. I think with some many young ladies skaters, it's easier to nudge them in a similar direction, while an older skater may say "no, I'll do my own thing".

I like Jeremy. I liked him at 2008 worlds and I liked him when he won CoC. I like that you can see in his skating that he's a dancer; it gives eveything more polish, elegance and beauty. I do think he needs to interact more with the audience; sometimes he seems to be in his own world.

And yes, that picture was awful. Hideous. Traumatizing, even? Anyways, really bad.

But this is where it gets very subjective. You mentioned Chan as a skater that sticks in one's memory whereas Jeremy doesn't, and it's funny, because for me it's the exact opposite. Patrick is wonderfully talented and seems a really nice kid, but his programs put me to sleep. I haven't been able to sit through his LP this season even once, and the SP is only somewhat better (mostly because it's shorter). He needs to choose different music - Patrick, you're only 18! Be young, have fun!

I actually agree with you regarding most of the others. I love Tomas Verner; it's always so disappointing when he has one of his hidden Czech programs because he's such a great talent. I love how KvdP fights and tries so hard, and his awesome 3-3-3. He seems so adorable (speaking of ladies, his wife's costumes are hideous but I'd love to see a US lady skate in pants for once, which Jenna does all the time). And Goebel's American in Paris was great (it helps that the music is lovely). I missed 03 Worlds but it was great at the SLC Olys.

 

[madibe]

Scott may not have been talking about international skaters. He may have been talking about USFS.

Frankly, USFS seems (and has seemed) absolutely determined to hammer all US skaters out on a Procrustean bed into little clones skating to tinkly classical music or Spanish/Latin stuff, both men and women. Abbott talks about his artistry, but the only image that I remember of him is an supremely unflattering photo of him in mid jump. I have seen him skate live at 3 events over the years, and 4 events this year on IN. . I still couldn't tell you what he skated to. I couldn't describe a single skill or element that remains in my memory. Well maybe I have an image of his 3A because I saw it yesterday, but it will fade in a week.

And I would submit that that is not artistry. Art should at the very lowest bar be memorable.

Patrick Chan who skates to similar music to Jeremy has edges so remarkable you remember them even if he is skating badly.

Who could forget Tomas Verner's programs, or even the not artistic K VDP's 3/3/3?

Evan has a dynamism. His F/W fills the rink. Even if he persists in skating to Spanish/Latin and Bolero.

Ryan Bradley has a humorous charm and I can remember large sections of programs by him that I have seen, particularly his "Happy Birthday" SP.

I can even remember in parts of the skating of Timothy Goebel, particularly in his American in Pairs routine in 2003.

Heck, I can remember large sections of Ross Miner's LP, the current Jr champion. I can remember Brandon Mroz's first Senior SP at Liberty. And I'll never forget Brandon's LP this week.

But not Jeremy Abbott. He is the Nancy Kerrigan of this era, always acclaimed as an artist, but frankly not making the cut.

Mroz should have won this championship IMO, if only for skating to Til Eulenspiegel with a funny watch chain.

I personally think Abbott has amazing artistry, but I admit he is not a Star in the way of other great champions of the past. However, if he doesn't interest you, I wonder how Mroz can. To me, there is nothing distinctive or compelling about the way Mroz skates and I can't see him being a contender in the future--he's just a boy who happened to have one good night in the LP at the 2009 Nationals.

 

[ks777]

I didn't know that John Nicks coached Kristi Yamaguchi. I thought Kristi's coach was Christy Ness or something?

 

[dorispulaski]

I have seen both Mroz and Abbott skate at Liberty. Mroz, particularly as a little skater, really stood out. And his skates this year seem to fulfill that promise.

I never get really up or down on a skater until I have seen them live. Both Kwan and Slutskaya were much more amazing as performers live than they were on TV for me.

In neither the TV only or live venue has Jeremy ever done anything interesting or unusual enough for me to remember.

I named Chan because on TV I find him similarly boring to Jeremy but in real life, his basic stroking and movement is absolutely amazing. I expected Jeremy to be comparable live from all the hoopla, but it wasn't there. And it wasn't there again today, I wish, I wish...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

This is a good topic to discuss 'ARTISTRY'. I do not remember that word being used in the PC definitions. So . . . . . .

What exactly is Artistry? I think everyone has their own idea. Let's hear it.

For me, it is not 'ballet-like'. It should be 'figure skating-like'.

It's not Technical like.
It's not even most of PC like.

I do not like to use the term artisty in figure skating. I do use the term presentation. While both Jeremy and Brandon are musical skaters, I think Brandon has an edge on what is personal, i.e. something he gives that others do not. However, Brandon has not been consistent except for this Nats, and I need to see him again at Worlds. My thoughts: Was it a fluke?

Jeremy, now that he has gotten over his heeby jeebies, does have an excellent presentation, but it is his musicality that stands out. He skates to be a winner like every other skater who wins. Nothing personal. JMO.

There is another skater, I think he came out last, who has the making of an 'artistry on ice'. Johnathan Cassar. Reminds me somewhat of a mixture of Brian Overett, and Kurt Browning. Hopefully Cassar will go beyond Overett in his career. Check Cassar out on On Demand and don't be too critical about the lack of first class technical.

 

[Buttercup]

I never get really up or down on a skater until I have seen them live. Both Kwan and Slutskaya were much more amazing as performers live than they were on TV for me.

I named Chan because on TV I find him similarly boring to Jeremy but in real life, his basic stroking and movement is absolutely amazing. I expected Jeremy to be comparable live from all the hoopla, but it wasn't there. And it wasn't there again today, I wish, I wish...

I don't have the chance to watch skaters live, except maybe for shows, which is not really the same as competitive skating - and even that isn't something I've had the chance to do often. So I have no choice but to make up my mind based on what I see on TV. I realize it's not the same. But if a skater is good enough to ineterst me on TV, I imagine it would be even more so live.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Jeremy interprets music really well. Look closer.

 

[dorispulaski]

I don't have the chance to watch skaters live, except maybe for shows, which is not really the same as competitive skating - and even that isn't something I've had the chance to do often. So I have no choice but to make up my mind based on what I see on TV. I realize it's not the same. But if a skater is good enough to ineterst me on TV, I imagine it would be even more so live.

Well, interestingly enough there are a few skaters that I would far rather watch on TV than in real life. Sasha Cohen for example, in her competitve days. Michelle Kwan was the reverse, amazing in real life, less so on TV. Alissa I like better on TV than in real life. Rachael Flatt I like better in real life than on TV.

I'm guessing that the difference, for me at least, is that in real life you don't get those super closeups that highlight how gorgeous the skater's positions are, but you get to see the patterns on the ice and the flow and the edges much, much better. A skater with beautiful skating skills is very quiet on the blade and economical in their skating motions. Often it looks slower and duller on TV than it is in life. Hugely speedy skaters (Kostner) are better live.

I don't mean that I don't have favorites and opinions about skaters I haven't seen live, only that I don't want to be too definitive about them since I know that seeing them live might change my mind radically, either for better or worse! Eating one's own words is never a tasty meal.

And I will continue to watch Jeremy since if I didn't, I would miss worlds, but I have no expectations of being either amazed or entertained by him, and wouldn't pay to see a show because he was in it at this point.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^^^
Excellent post. Watching LIVE and watching TV or even watching on Computer are three different views of the same.

What LIVE gives is the skater up against the entire surface. The Jumbothon gives the intimate look of the skater as does TV and Computer.

Some skaters are larger than life on the TV and computer, but in the Arena they are quite small and it does take away something from the performance. However, when the skater is emoting or trying to emote, the TV camera catches that better than LIVE, But LIVE is a dead giveaway for body language. So many skaters do not have that.

 

[Tonichelle]

Small article on Keegan (well, sort of) from the Anchorage Daily News - http://www.adn.com/sports/story/665879.html

if they don't do a REAL article on him soon (seriously, Vogel? Keegan's a footnote in the artcle ABOUT him. BLAH) I'm going to SCREAM.

 

[KwanFan1212]

There is another skater, I think he came out last, who has the making of an 'artistry on ice'. Johnathan Cassar. Reminds me somewhat of a mixture of Brian Overett, and Kurt Browning. Hopefully Cassar will go beyond Overett in his career. Check Cassar out on On Demand and don't be too critical about the lack of first class technical.

I apologize for being picky but spelling errors on skaters that I adore really annoy me, LOL

It's actually BRADEN Overett if you're referring to the skater I think you are (who is one of my all time fave skaters and now does choreography) and Jonathan actually moved up a spot and did not come in last. Unfortunately Jason Wong's horrible LP sent him down to last place and Jonathan was placed right above him (but actually got pretty decent PCS scores). Jonathan is outstanding in the components (his ouside and inside spread eagles ruined everyone else's for me the rest of the day because they were SO GOOD) but he's always had some troubles with jumps. Maybe Jeremy and Ryan B. can give him a few pointers since they both went through that whole jumping issue phase too.