Pot/Kettle simile racist???
- Thread starter Piel
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
A holler connects one county to the next. Except.....where there are NO roads and you have to travel by creek which BTW is AKA a "crick".
In South Hills one of the wealthier sections of Charleston (home to Alias star Jennifer Garner) when they built GW high school the kids from Davis Creek were sent there too. Davis Creek is a lower income more rural area. So the kids at GW refer to them the "hillers/rich" and "creekers/poor". THEN some builders developed an area more elite than South Hills which they called Quarry Creek. So now they have the "poor creekers" and the "rich creekers".
Speaking of Jennifer Garner. She was giving an interview to promote her new movie and I noticed her voice had some of Jenny Kirlk's little girl sound to it. She could do a very convincing job playing Jenny.
Sunday before last Jennifer was on the cover of Parade magazine, the supplement to the Sunday paper. Alexis Hornbuckle, who lives in an area less than 10 minutes from Jennifer's parents was also featured for making Parade's All American girl's basketball first team. Not bad for our little state.
In South Hills one of the wealthier sections of Charleston (home to Alias star Jennifer Garner) when they built GW high school the kids from Davis Creek were sent there too. Davis Creek is a lower income more rural area. So the kids at GW refer to them the "hillers/rich" and "creekers/poor". THEN some builders developed an area more elite than South Hills which they called Quarry Creek. So now they have the "poor creekers" and the "rich creekers".
Speaking of Jennifer Garner. She was giving an interview to promote her new movie and I noticed her voice had some of Jenny Kirlk's little girl sound to it. She could do a very convincing job playing Jenny.
Sunday before last Jennifer was on the cover of Parade magazine, the supplement to the Sunday paper. Alexis Hornbuckle, who lives in an area less than 10 minutes from Jennifer's parents was also featured for making Parade's All American girl's basketball first team. Not bad for our little state.
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I am in Michigan now. I have no problem with being called a hillbilly. That's probably because I no longer have the accent. It isn't a term that's been used to me by outsiders. It would be different then. I am proud of my roots. It took some seriously tough people to survive in those mountains. Our mini-culture is dying out but there were many good and beautiful things in it.
Mathman- a county in Michigan is pretty much the same thing as a county in Ky. It's just an area within a state with a name and a mini bureaucracy and petty bureaucrats.
A holler would be more closely compared to a street. Obviously, you can't have nicely laid out streets in the mountains. Instead, roads were cut into them as best as the land allowed. They wind up the mountainside and fork off willy-nilly. People built their homes along the roads or vice versa. If I were telling people where I use to live, I would say the left hand fork of F*** [holler] in B**** [city] Ky.
Lynn I haven't lived in Pike county in years, but I have tons of family there. Of course, if you're from the area, most of the county is kin. I always said, you don't need an ID there. You just need mini family trees so everyone can figure out how you're related. LOL
ETA Just to clarify- No, we don't marry our cousins. We just know who they are.
Mathman- a county in Michigan is pretty much the same thing as a county in Ky. It's just an area within a state with a name and a mini bureaucracy and petty bureaucrats.
A holler would be more closely compared to a street. Obviously, you can't have nicely laid out streets in the mountains. Instead, roads were cut into them as best as the land allowed. They wind up the mountainside and fork off willy-nilly. People built their homes along the roads or vice versa. If I were telling people where I use to live, I would say the left hand fork of F*** [holler] in B**** [city] Ky.
Lynn I haven't lived in Pike county in years, but I have tons of family there. Of course, if you're from the area, most of the county is kin. I always said, you don't need an ID there. You just need mini family trees so everyone can figure out how you're related. LOL
ETA Just to clarify- No, we don't marry our cousins. We just know who they are.
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Grgranny said:
This is what I mean by using "they" in the wrong way. Who is "they"? Are you speaking about ALL people of a certain race? If not, then you need to clarify. For example, you could say, "some or all (insert ethnic group here) change..." And why does everyone think the terms keep changing?? The terms don't. To keep using this argument, to me, is a cop out.
I realize that racism works both ways. When I lived in Germany, I dated a German boy. His friends and his grandmother disapproved, because I wasn't German. However, that's one incident, and it doesn't even almost compare to what many of my African-American or gay friends have gone through in terms of harrassment.
I realize that my politics are way more liberal than most people on this board; however, I think all political orientations can be a little more tolerant and understanding of ALL people. We all have to live in this world together.
Laura
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I didn't go back and reread the post about them and they. I just thought they meant as those blacks, etc.
If the terms don't keep changing, then why were they negroes, then colored, then black and then African American? I'm sure there were more.
If you haven't figured it out, I hate to argue. Really hate it. So, I probably just won't answer anything else on this topic. It just makes me sorry I ever opened my mouth.
If the terms don't keep changing, then why were they negroes, then colored, then black and then African American? I'm sure there were more.
If you haven't figured it out, I hate to argue. Really hate it. So, I probably just won't answer anything else on this topic. It just makes me sorry I ever opened my mouth.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
GrGranny, don't leave the thread, there is one question I just have to know the answer to! What kind of material were sugar sacks made out of?
SusanBeth, I am curious about whether your family meets a lots of discrimination here in Michigan, or whether you were talking in your first post about some other places you have lived. As a partner in an interracial marriage I have never had any problems here. Of course, we live in kind of a bubble of our own, moving mostly in academic circles.
Thanks for the information abut hollers. You know I was just kidding in my post to Piel.
Toni, even though there are no black people in Kenai, don't you have Aleuts and other native peoples, and immigrants from Asia? There is hardly any place in America that does not have some sort of diversity in their poplation.
Mathman
SusanBeth, I am curious about whether your family meets a lots of discrimination here in Michigan, or whether you were talking in your first post about some other places you have lived. As a partner in an interracial marriage I have never had any problems here. Of course, we live in kind of a bubble of our own, moving mostly in academic circles.
Thanks for the information abut hollers. You know I was just kidding in my post to Piel.
Toni, even though there are no black people in Kenai, don't you have Aleuts and other native peoples, and immigrants from Asia? There is hardly any place in America that does not have some sort of diversity in their poplation.
Mathman
SusanBeth, I grew up in Ashland in Boyd County. I've been away for many years. I hated it growing up because I just always wanted to travel and see different places and noone there was interested in that. Now that I've been away for awhile, I appreciate it more.
Ggranny, I think you mentioned that there were different categories of people where you lived. Most people would consider all of eastern KY to be out in the middle of nowhere, but we did distinguish between those who lived in the city and "out in the county," (outside the city limits). They spoke differently, had different attitudes, etc. That's not so true in the Ashland area anymore.
Ggranny, I think you mentioned that there were different categories of people where you lived. Most people would consider all of eastern KY to be out in the middle of nowhere, but we did distinguish between those who lived in the city and "out in the county," (outside the city limits). They spoke differently, had different attitudes, etc. That's not so true in the Ashland area anymore.
There have been incidents in every place we have lived. It was quite bad in Eastern Ky and Arkansas. It really has not been as frequent in Michigan. I live in an area that has large groups from different cultures and the schools are quick to act. Of course, things get said, but they rarely get said twice by the same person. I don't think, we are going to do much better anywhere else.
MM I didn't realize you were kidding. I've heard so many questions about hollers, I would take any question seriously.
ETA- Now that my husband has passed on, this issue is mainly about what my kids have to face.
MM I didn't realize you were kidding. I've heard so many questions about hollers, I would take any question seriously.
ETA- Now that my husband has passed on, this issue is mainly about what my kids have to face.
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- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Granny, don't leave. I hate to argue, too, and we Nebraskans have to stick together.
I agree that terms for "black" people have changed over the last century, for the better, I might add, but in Toni's post, she made it sound like the terms change every day. I've been using "African American" or "black" my entire life, and I'm 35.
While I do my best not identify people by race, I've also discovered that you can't be "color blind" either, because a person's race is part of their identity. But I am color blind in that I treat everyone equally, as I'm sure that everyone on this board does also, yes?
Laura
I agree that terms for "black" people have changed over the last century, for the better, I might add, but in Toni's post, she made it sound like the terms change every day. I've been using "African American" or "black" my entire life, and I'm 35.
While I do my best not identify people by race, I've also discovered that you can't be "color blind" either, because a person's race is part of their identity. But I am color blind in that I treat everyone equally, as I'm sure that everyone on this board does also, yes?
Laura
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Mathman, cotton. Much like muslin. Our sheets and pillowcases were also made from sugar sacks. Our mattesses were stuffed with straw.
We also had the uppity crowd. The pharmacist's family, etc. The bankers were really nice though. The Dr. didn't seem to discriminate either but there were plenty that did. One of the reasons I sang in the choir was because we wore robes and it wasn't as obvious I had to wear the same dress every week until it either wore out or I grew out of it.
I'll keep reading, just won't post anything that may be argumentative.
We also had the uppity crowd. The pharmacist's family, etc. The bankers were really nice though. The Dr. didn't seem to discriminate either but there were plenty that did. One of the reasons I sang in the choir was because we wore robes and it wasn't as obvious I had to wear the same dress every week until it either wore out or I grew out of it.
I'll keep reading, just won't post anything that may be argumentative.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
That's a real old saying. My grandmother had hundreds of them like this. My mom is always quoting them. No it is not racist. I use sayings my mom taught me from her mother. Some of them are great!
I like:
"What goes up the chimney down and down the chimney up?" (an umbrella!)
or "A man on horseback would not notice!"
I like:
"What goes up the chimney down and down the chimney up?" (an umbrella!)
or "A man on horseback would not notice!"
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
I think that "they" in this case refers to whoever decides what is PC for the time being and was not meant in a bad way at all. For example some friends and I were discussing different diets and someone said "Who knows what's best this week, complex carbs or no carbs? Everytime I get used to eating one way THEY change it". She meant no one in particular and could have said IT changes instead of they change it. I think that Grgranny was saying that what is PC changes.
In the 60's there was a time when African-American was the PC term, then it became PC to use Black, and now African-American is the correct term to use again. So the terms DID change. I will soon be 50 (ooh it hurts to type that number!) and I notice as I get older time seems to go by soooo much faster. Something that changed 10 years ago really does seem like it was just yesterday.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Grgranny, after my Grandmother died a couple of years ago we were going through all of the years of stuff that had accumulated in her attic. I came across what I thoght were just really soft pillowcases with a border print. My mother says that they were made from flour sacks by MY Greatgranny. I couldn't bear to throw them away so I put them away in my linen closet. Last summer when my greatniece was born Mother made her a little pillow from one of them. So baby Ashlyn has a wonderful reminder of her great, great, great grandmother Anna.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
One of the things that was done a lot back then was to embroider pillowcases. When I was engaged I made some using the buttonhole stitch. It bothers me when my grandchildren come and get out any pillowcases when I think they should be saved as special. I was embroidering a dresser scarf and my fiance decided he would help. Someone asked him what he was making and he said "a rug. Cause we can't afford any furniture to put it on".
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- Jul 27, 2003
My mother, grandmother, and greatgrandmother all sew(ed), and do needlework. I can do basic embroidery satin, buttonhole, french knot, running, and lazy daisey stitches but am very slow at it. My brother used to love to embroider when we were kids. One time he had worked for about an hour on a piece and when he got ready to put it down he found he had emboidered through to the tail of his shirt, LOL. My greatgranny crocheted around the edges of a lot of the scarves and pillowcases that she made. I have a set of two identical handkerchiefs that she made out of a very fine woven material (linen I think) with a tatted lace border around them. One of them is reserved for the bride to carry when anyone in the family gets married. We have an album that has a picture of each bride who writes a note and a wish for the next bride. The second handkerchief is displayed under the protective cover of the album.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, I'm learning all kinds of stuff on this thread. Thanks for starting it, Piel.
SusanBeth, I am very sorry that you lost your husband at such a young age. (I don't know how old you are but I am going by the fact that you have children still in school.) The role of a single surviving parent is an awesome task.
I wanted to comment about the example that Flora MacDonald mentioned, about the supervisor who used the term "400 pound gorilla," and also about Ptichka's recalling of the movie Human Strain in which the protagonist got in trouble over an unfortunate use of the word "spook."
To me, this sort of situation is dead easy. If you say something without meaning any harm by it, and then another person comes up afterward and says. "You know, Mathman, I was offended by your choice of language," -- well, all you have to say is, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone."
Hey, Piel, my great-great-great-great grandfather lived in West Virginia at the time of the Revolutionary War. He was a major in the Virginia militia (this was before West Virginia became a separate state), and he fought on the western frontier against the Shawnee, Mingos, Wyandots, Miamis and other native nations who were stirred up by the British to harass the settlers.
In one battle he tried to hide behind a tree, but the tree was too small and his elbow stuck out, and he was wounded on the elbow and had to go back home. They even made a popular song about this incident.
He was also involved in the "war" between Pennsylvania and Virginia over control of the Pittsburgh area. The Pennsylvanians based their claim on having bought the land for 10,000 Spanish dollars from the Iriqois, while the claim of the Virginians was based on the original 1604 charter from the King of England. Virginia also claimed Kentucky -- Kain-tuc-kee, "dark and bloody ground" -- under the same charter.
In 1778 Major James B. and a bunch of the Virginia boys left Kentucky heading for Detroit to attack the British fort there, which was commanded by Colonel John Hamilton, the "hair-buyer colonel." Unfortunately they started out in November, and about half-way across Ohio winter set in, so they had to disband and try to make it back home the best way they could.
His son later moved "out West" to Indiana as a cicuit-riding minister; he donated his farm land to the new city of Indianapolis for some of their municiple buildings.
Mathman
SusanBeth, I am very sorry that you lost your husband at such a young age. (I don't know how old you are but I am going by the fact that you have children still in school.) The role of a single surviving parent is an awesome task.
I wanted to comment about the example that Flora MacDonald mentioned, about the supervisor who used the term "400 pound gorilla," and also about Ptichka's recalling of the movie Human Strain in which the protagonist got in trouble over an unfortunate use of the word "spook."
To me, this sort of situation is dead easy. If you say something without meaning any harm by it, and then another person comes up afterward and says. "You know, Mathman, I was offended by your choice of language," -- well, all you have to say is, "Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone."
Hey, Piel, my great-great-great-great grandfather lived in West Virginia at the time of the Revolutionary War. He was a major in the Virginia militia (this was before West Virginia became a separate state), and he fought on the western frontier against the Shawnee, Mingos, Wyandots, Miamis and other native nations who were stirred up by the British to harass the settlers.
In one battle he tried to hide behind a tree, but the tree was too small and his elbow stuck out, and he was wounded on the elbow and had to go back home. They even made a popular song about this incident.
He was also involved in the "war" between Pennsylvania and Virginia over control of the Pittsburgh area. The Pennsylvanians based their claim on having bought the land for 10,000 Spanish dollars from the Iriqois, while the claim of the Virginians was based on the original 1604 charter from the King of England. Virginia also claimed Kentucky -- Kain-tuc-kee, "dark and bloody ground" -- under the same charter.
In 1778 Major James B. and a bunch of the Virginia boys left Kentucky heading for Detroit to attack the British fort there, which was commanded by Colonel John Hamilton, the "hair-buyer colonel." Unfortunately they started out in November, and about half-way across Ohio winter set in, so they had to disband and try to make it back home the best way they could.
His son later moved "out West" to Indiana as a cicuit-riding minister; he donated his farm land to the new city of Indianapolis for some of their municiple buildings.
Mathman
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- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
1. Actually, MM, I was refering to the book rather than the movie. The book is excellent (then again I am a big Roth fan), the movie I thought was mediocre.
2. I believe the official PC term now is not African American but person of color.
2. I believe the official PC term now is not African American but person of color.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think African American is still OK (but Afro-American is passe). Likewise, as you say, "person of color" is in, "colored person" is out. I think Black is OK for people who are the right age (baby boomers), maybe not so popular now as it once was. No prob.
MM
MM
One of the best stand-up jokes I remember from the Comedy Channel was part of Wanda Sykes routine. She was discussing how upset people get over African American vs black.
She did a little one sided skit about going back to a bank that had turned her down for a loan when she was black. But she went back because she was now African American. Of course, the bank just handed over whatever amount was asked for.
I loved her point, it really doesn't matter what term you use in the end. The root problems have not changed. Until that happens, you can call yourself whatever you like. It kind of makes it pointless to argue about it.
Two ladies I work closely with prefer different terms. One lady prefers the term black when she is asked, the other prefers African American. It is easy for anyone to get confused on what the latest PC term is and I find it easier to avoid any mention of the issue unless it comes up in conversation. It's amazing what you can learn about people's preferences just by starting a conversation about the Comedy Channel.
She did a little one sided skit about going back to a bank that had turned her down for a loan when she was black. But she went back because she was now African American. Of course, the bank just handed over whatever amount was asked for.
I loved her point, it really doesn't matter what term you use in the end. The root problems have not changed. Until that happens, you can call yourself whatever you like. It kind of makes it pointless to argue about it.
Two ladies I work closely with prefer different terms. One lady prefers the term black when she is asked, the other prefers African American. It is easy for anyone to get confused on what the latest PC term is and I find it easier to avoid any mention of the issue unless it comes up in conversation. It's amazing what you can learn about people's preferences just by starting a conversation about the Comedy Channel.
I prefer not to bring it up too, just because there's really no reason to discuss it as a general topic. No matter what color, they are a person & it doesn't make a difference. But the only problem w/ African American is not all blacks are of African heritage, like my friend from Jamaica (who doesn't like to be called African American)...
