Quadruple jumps: the 40th anniversary | Golden Skate

Quadruple jumps: the 40th anniversary

eppen

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A couple of years ago a thread here at GS inspired me to start compiling a list of all the men who have tried or even trained quads since the beginning of times. That resulted in a list of names, but also in a list of jumps. The project has expanded almost uncontrollably along the way and there seems to be no end to it… But I have tried also to analyze the information and as we are approaching the 40th anniversary of the first documented quad in competition, it is time to start publishing it.

The numbers at the moment:

Men
425 have tried a quad in competition
35 at least have trained or are training to get a quad
1008 attempts in the 6.0/early IJS
12334 attempts in the IJS era

Women
51 have tried a quad in competition
?? have trained or are training – this is still work in progress
21 attempts in the 6.0/early IJS
636 attempts in the IJS era

Shoma Uno (JPN) is the most frequent flier with 308 attempts by the end of 2022. There are 19 skaters with a 100 or more quad attempts in international competition – Evgeni Plushenko (RUS) was the first in 2005 and Daniel Grassl (ITA) most recent last fall.

Nathan Chen (USA) is the Quad King when it comes to variety, quantity, and quality put together. He has landed cleanly 5 different quads and has 133 quads with positive GOE in international competition. His success rate in the international scene is 70,4 %. Yuzuru Hanyu (JPN) gets close with 4 cleanly landed quad types, 132 clean quads internationally, and success rate at 67,0 %. Javier Fernandez (ESP) gets the third spot which is amazing considering that he only ever did 2 different quads, but he has 105 clean ones and success rate at 64,8 %.

I will possibly start calling Ilia Malinin (USA) the Quad God when he 1) gets the last type (4Lo) done cleanly and 2) puts all six different quads in one free program. He has still some work to do with the quantity and quality department.

The numbers and names become also a quadstory with at least 5 phases.

The first is a sort of a prehistory of training and dreaming that lasts from the 1960s until 1983. (Read about it at Skate Guard or, a little updated, at Fascinatio Glaciei).

The second phase covers the early competition history from Alexandre Fadeev (USSR) on March 10, 1983, until the end of season in 1995–96. Very slow development which finishes in a rapid change the following season – suddenly feverish quad activity for about 6 seasons. The number of attempts per season is doubled almost regularly, the number of skaters trying grows fast, and different quad types get tried. This is the point in time when quads become important and risk taking starts to be appreciated. The IJS has really nothing to do with it, it just documents the development that had started more than a half a decade before.

The third phase is the first decade of the IJS which is marked by total stagnation. Only 4T and 4S attempts until the early 2010s. The numbers of jumps and skaters per season remain at a lower level than at the end of the 6.0 era.

This ends in the fourth phase in the mid-2010s. The quad wars were a real thing and a lot of us probably remember the rapid development with 2016–18 being some of the craziest times. Even the women wake up and start working on those quads!

Which brings us to the post-pandemic times. The Olympic season 2021–22 was the all-time record one for quantity of quad attempts: 1932 attempts (probably more because you can never get all the results) from regional competitions in the domestic scenes to the Olympics. By juniors and seniors alike – and actually some novice skaters, too. The number of current skaters who have attempted a quad in competition is 234 – the number of all the retired quadsters is 239. Even the 4A gets done in a glorious fashion which no one would have expected to happen any time soon.

Curious to see what happens with women and what will ISU do about the rather unhealthy tendency of little kids training and jumping quads in competition.

I will update the full stories and data at Fascinatio Glaciei... Thanks for all the help and discussions and encouragement in this project, feel free to comment and correct me when you finds funny stuff!

Eppen
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Jan 25, 2013
Thanks for the compilation and stats! Crazy impressive consistency of the top 3!

Especially incredible that Nathan Chen has the most number of international quads in just 6 senior seasons, while the next two skaters, Hanyu and Fernandez have competed internationally in, respectively, 12 and 13 senior seasons.

I personally do still consider Malinin a quad god because he has landed the 4A and 5 different quads in competition. Yes, the 4L would make him complete the set, but meh - it's only a quad loop ... he's landed the 3 quads that are more difficult (and of course has landed the loop in practices). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD1e_6-fWvk

He doesn't need to land all 6 quad types in competition to legitimize himself either. Oh, and there's also these! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR7vHvsvEXQ I thought there was a clip of him doing a 4Z+4L out there but can't seem to find the vid.
 
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yesterday

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:bow:
thank you for all the work and passion! (And nice to see you!)

Javier Fernandez (ESP) gets the third spot which is amazing considering that he only ever did 2 different quads, but he has 105 clean ones and success rate at 64,8 %.

I would say it is probably easier to have a high success rate when you keep the number of different jumps lower? If that was what you meant?
 

eppen

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I would say it is probably easier to have a high success rate when you keep the number of different jumps lower? If that was what you meant?

Nice to see you, @yesterday !

I was referring to the quantity and how it is more difficult to achieve with only 1 or 2 types of quads. He was doing 1+1-3 layouts most of his career which means that the total numbers grow slow. He could not add his quad count per competition beyond 2+3 as he had only 2 different ones.

Of those 38 skaters whose career total is more than 100 quads, only 10 have done it with only or predominantly with one quad type. Most of those 10 guys have very long careers like Evgeni Plushenko, Brian Joubert, Michal Brezina, or Alexei Bychenko.

Hanyu did about 50:50 of 1+1-3 and 2+3-5 layouts. Although he mostly relied on 4T and 4S, he could also put in the 4Lo (the 4Lz was there for a fleeting second, so not really a great asset in the end).

Chen switched to 2+3-6 layouts after his first season with quads when he was doing mostly junior competitions (with no quads in the short in other words). He had 3 reliable quads most of the time (4T, 4F, 4Lz) with 4S as an additional one (in his case, the 4Lo the occasional jump). He could get the quantity up very quickly like that!

For quantity and quality not going hand in hand even when you have just 2 types of quads, let's turn to Kevin Reynolds. Reynolds attempted 226 quads btw 2006 and 2018. Mostly 4T and 4S with some attempts of 4Lo. But of those 226 jumps only a little over half (132 or 58 %) were fully rotated and only 64 (28 %) were with positive GOE.

It is also possible to get numbers sky high by competing a lot - Shoma has a a couple of seasons in the mid-2010s when he did regularly 10 or so competitions with 4-6 quads per competition (most elite men compete 5-6 times per season). He has the record for the highest number of quads in one season: 58 in 2016-17. He attempted 162 quads in just 3 seasons (2016-17, 2017-18, 2018-19) - only 9 skaters have career totals higher than that (Chen, Fernandez, Hanyu, Jin, Joubert, Kvitelashvili, Reynolds, Zhou and Uno himself ofc).

I am hoping the Ilia's 4Lo appears in competition soon enough! He is one of the few skaters who have been able to introduce 2 new quad types successfully to competition in one season - Nathan is one and Trusova another example of that. Ilia's jump count is 82 at the moment, 62 fully-rotated (75,6 %) and 49 with positive GOE = 59,8 %. He still has to work a bit to get to Chen's and Hanyu's level of consistency and quality.

The women are scary - I've only started to look at them coz I got curious about how are they doing compared to the men. There are similarities, such as often going for multiple quad types and also starting very, very young. Over 460 jumps (of 636) by women have been done at national competitions and 440 of those in Russia. Almost 400 of women's quads are by juniors (or even younger). The skaters who have started to jump quads in competition in the 2020s are 100 in men and 36 in women. Their average age at first try is for boys 16,9 and girls 12,8 years. Don't really know what to think of all that quite yet.

I am starting by getting the analyses out first and then after the season is over will try to get the materials out so that everyone interested can start playing with them :)

E
 

4everchan

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Kevin, though he wasn't consistent remains a pioneer as the first man to land 2 quads in the SP , and the first to have landed 5 quads in a a competition, 2 in the short and 3 in the LP (2013 4CC). I think Kevin may also be the first to try (without success) 3 different quads in the LP when he did attempt the loop.
 

eppen

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Kevin, though he wasn't consistent remains a pioneer as the first man to land 2 quads in the SP , and the first to have landed 5 quads in a a competition, 2 in the short and 3 in the LP (2013 4CC). I think Kevin may also be the first to try (without success) 3 different quads in the LP when he did attempt the loop.
Indeed, both of these things happened, the 2 quad SP at 2010 Skate Canada was maybe even the first time he ever tried it and they were both good jumps. He tried the 3 different quads in the free a few times around 2011-12 but the 4Lo never worked, later also as part of a 4 quad FS.

Brandon Mroz (USA) got the first clean 4Lz despite his quality being not so great - 41 attempts and 9 positive GOEs. All the good ones were 4Ts. All his other 5 4Lz attempts are -1 or below. He also tried 4Lo 3 times with even poorer results.

Both track records show that even a fairly bad quadster can produce the occasional good jump - they still don't go down in history as great jumpers.

The first time anyone tried 2 different quads in one program was actually Surya Bonaly at the 1990 Europeans - which is wild as she was only the 6th skater in general to try a quad in competition! And that was the first time she tried a quad in competition! The next one to do it was Takeshi Honda at Nebelhorn Trophy 1995, both of them did 4T and 4S. Goebel then got those clean in a 3-quad free in 1999. Zhengxin Guo might have been the first to get two clean quads in the free down (4T and 4T+2T) at the 1997 Worlds, but this is a bit poorly documented.

The firsts are fun facts - and you can generate tons and tons of them - but they really don't tell the whole story IMO.

E
 

4everchan

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Indeed, both of these things happened, the 2 quad SP at 2010 Skate Canada was maybe even the first time he ever tried it and they were both good jumps. He tried the 3 different quads in the free a few times around 2011-12 but the 4Lo never worked, later also as part of a 4 quad FS.

Brandon Mroz (USA) got the first clean 4Lz despite his quality being not so great - 41 attempts and 9 positive GOEs. All the good ones were 4Ts. All his other 5 4Lz attempts are -1 or below. He also tried 4Lo 3 times with even poorer results.

Both track records show that even a fairly bad quadster can produce the occasional good jump - they still don't go down in history as great jumpers.

The first time anyone tried 2 different quads in one program was actually Surya Bonaly at the 1990 Europeans - which is wild as she was only the 6th skater in general to try a quad in competition! And that was the first time she tried a quad in competition! The next one to do it was Takeshi Honda at Nebelhorn Trophy 1995, both of them did 4T and 4S. Goebel then got those clean in a 3-quad free in 1999. Zhengxin Guo might have been the first to get two clean quads in the free down (4T and 4T+2T) at the 1997 Worlds, but this is a bit poorly documented.

The firsts are fun facts - and you can generate tons and tons of them - but they really don't tell the whole story IMO.

E
Oh I agree.. .but the firsts say a lot about the evolution of the sport... Back then, two different quads in the SP was an oddity... Even 2 quads of the same kind in the LP wasn't so common... Patrick Chan made it necessary for others to try catching him up when he started landing two quad toes in his LP... With the quality of his skating, there was no other option for other skaters than bring in more quads... and they had some examples on how to do so with guys like Kevin.

If you mean the "whole story" by who is more consistent or who has landed more quads or more kinds of quads, I would assume that as the sport continues to evolve, skaters will be more and more proficient with various quads and stats of the past will be interesting but surpassed...

Not about quads but about 3-3- combos : they were very exotic in Canadian women just a decade ago... and now, pretty much everyone and their little sister is attempting them... Just at Novice Nationals, there was a girl doing two different 3-3 combos in her LP.... That's why I find pioneers interesting... they truly bring the sport further. Again, Midori Ito, would you think that she is the inspiration for so many 3 axels among Japanese skaters? I would think so. I believe young athletes get more inspired by what skaters from their own schools are able to achieve... of course, in this age, with tik tok and instagram, skaters may find inspiration worldwide but ... yeah.. I think the home factor sends the "if so and so next door can do it, i can do it too"
 

4everchan

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Two quads in the FS was done "regularly" before Chan, Reynolds et al as well.
E.g. Lambiel did 2 4T in the FS in his most successful season and probably before/after that?
And I don't think he was the only one

example protocols:
Sure. Lambiel.. though no steady 3a... joubert though no great skating skills... what i meant is that Patrixk made it more and more mandatory... before, buttle won worlds quadless in 2008 and lysacek won olympics 2010, also quadless... this will never happen again.
 
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skatesofgold

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4everchan

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Again, my point wasn't that 2 quad LPS didn't exist...what I am saying is that when Patrick combined quads and amazing skating skills, there was a clear shift... those who wanted to win needed the quads... if they didn't have them, they couldn't beat the guys with quads and artistry... and as a matter of fact, we never had a champion at worlds or Olympics since 2011 who didn't go for at least 2 quads in the LP, and many also had two quads in the SP. I thought I was clear but I am happy to clarify.
 

SmileHappy34

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Dec 20, 2022
I find hard to believe 44 years of quads, but only concentrated since 2000 when done more regular by Alexi Yagudin and Evgengy Plushenko for the 2002 Olympics. The women more recently due to the Russian women (youngsters). Is it exciting, yes. But at same time as u noted they don't stay in long . The men within the 4 year Olympic cycle report grion issues or other physical injuries that can be attributed to the quads. Despite no quads how many women have issues after the triple or triple- triple. How many skaters & teams pull out of competition due to injuries suffered in training for those elements. Had anyone report ed injuries suffered due to a spiral, spin, or step layout. I don't recall. How many careers cut short due to it. How do they skate on shows with quads, triple Axel, triple, triple triple? Do they cut down the triples to doubles ? Do they cut down the number of triples or quads to one or two? They are concern about their heath. How it affects them after done with competition. Is those ultra elements worth it in long run. Yes says some especially if win OGM or a medal. How long does public expect the skater to do those ultra jumps that skaters is known for. What happens if the non skaters weather complain about lack of ultra elements u won ur medal on. How long do they support sport or skaters. Not long.
 

eppen

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This is the day, btw, when Alexandre Fadeev tried a quad for the first time ever in competition. The World Championships in Helsinki in March: https://youtu.be/AOdV4_cs9PY?t=73

He tries it towards the middle of the first half after having done a 3A in combination, 2A into a spin, 3Lz in combo, steps, and a second spin before taking a very brief breather and then going for the quad!

This is something that happened regularly, that the quad was not the first element, but somewhere further in the program. I am not surprised that no one got it right before Browning put put the 4T at the top of the program. Fadeev got the first attempt at the Olympics in 1984, but the next one to try was Sabovcik in Euros 1986, then Boitano in the fall of 1986, and Browning in the fall 1987. Kurt's clean one at the Worlds in 1988 has its 35th anniversary towards the end of the month this year!

The 2 quad free appeared in 1990 with Bonaly as mentioned above, but became common relatively slow. Most skaters were not able to do both, a single quad and a quad in combo before the late 1990s/early 2000s. Interestingly enough, there were more than a hundred attempts og 0+2 or 1+2 layouts before the IJS (1990 to about 2004-05). Then from 2003 until 2011 only 72 times... Since 2011, two quads in the free have been done at least 1372 times.

The same applies to frees with more than 2 quads. The first time was in 2004 with Zhang Min, the second time in 2006 by Brian Joubert. After that, 2011 is the next time with Kevin Reynolds, Javi was the second try do a 1+3 followed by Max Aaron and Boyang Jin a few years later. Now, the count for the more than 2 quad frees is 711.

During Chan's best seasons, 2010-13, the 2-quad free was attempted at least 96 times and Patrick was responsible for 15 of them. The next ones who came close to that were Konstantin Menshov with 10 and Kevin Reynolds and Javi both with 8 times. His consistency (over 50 4Ts over those seasons with 60 % of them with positive GOEs) was pretty high and when he usually able to add 3A and was in general superior in everything else... Yeah, no wonder he dominated!

Lambiel is these days touted as the king of artistry, but it should not be forgotten that during the 2005-06 season he was the Quad King - that is the skater with most quads over that season - with 23 4Ts! Only Timothy Goebel goes higher than that during the 2000s, in 2001-02 with 25 jumps.

What I would like to get done properly is a study over the injuries. Now it's mostly just anecdotal stuff. And for every skater whose career ends with injuries possibly caused by jumps, there are those who retire seemingly without much damage (though, I wonder what will happen to them in the long term!).

Shoma Uno has more than 300 quads in competition between 2014 and 2022 and I don't know if he has missed very many competetions because of injuries. Nathan had a big scare right at the beginning of his quadster career, but has seemingly fared very well since then. Hanyu got into big trouble with the 4Lz, but still keeps doing the other quads. Reynolds had injuries over year but was able to do quads right until the end of his career. Jin and Kvitelashvili are also over 200 quads guys - not sure what their injury tally is

These guys all started to do quads in competition around 14 (Jin)-17 (Kvitelashvili) which means they probably trained a little while before that. What happens with the girls and boys who are now training and doing quads in competition at the age of 10, I don't want to think about.

E
 

eppen

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Oh, forgot about the Olympics...

At the 2002 Olympics, at least 31 quad attempts with 8 guys going for more than 1 quad in the free, including all the medalists.
In 2006, 21 quads, and two 1+2 layouts (Lambiel and Zhang Min)
In 2010, 15 quads and one guy going for 1+2 (Lambiel).
In 2014, 53 quads with 8 guys going for 2-3 quad frees.
In 2018, 87 quads, with 15 guys going for >2 quad frees.
In 2022, 108 quads, with 13 guys going for >2 quad frees. And the women: 13 quads and every one of the 3 women who tried went for 0+2 or more.

Evolution is hardly ever linear.

E
 

4everchan

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Thank you @eppen for the last two posts. Very organized information. Perhaps not entirely linear, but it seems that the evolution is steady when looking at the number of quads after IJS... Let's not forget that IJS has also been a factor on the technical content... For instance, only one quad can be repeated now means that a skater wouldn't be able to do 4t solo 4t combo + 4s solo and 4S combo... However, even when that was allowed... i don't think I can even remember who used that layout often... and probably nobody with great success... Most guys with two quads preferred repeating the 3a I would believe (without having looked at the data).
 

eppen

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No one did 4T+4T+combo+4S+4S+combo layouts ever. Well, except Kevin Reynolds once at Super Series BC Summer Skate in 2016 and he managed only the 4T in combination. The quads were governed by the Zayak rule, but most were doing only 4Ts and very few guys would have been able to do two different quads in combination before the post-2015 times.

The Olympics as requested:
ADD: Let's do this again, I don't know what I was looking at when I wrote the original list. See below on page 2. Sorry!

These should always be regarded as "at least these" because finding quads from those days depends on videos or possible mentions in newspapers or other kinds of written sources. Though, my uncertain Olympics quads come actually only from 2002 as I have not been able to find info on what Li Yunfei, Yosuke Takeuchi and Zhang Min were up to. All were jumping quads quite regularly at the time, so I could imagine that they might have tried, but verification does not seem to be available :confused:

E
 
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ramurphy2005

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Boitano only tried the quad at '88 Worlds, not at the Olympics, unless I'm misunderstanding your time measurement, and you're talking about an entire Olympic cycle.
 
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