Quads men vs. ladies

[Tinymavy15]

I was wondering about the quad. When men put the quad in ther programs, the seem to automatcilly go for the quad toe. often putting it in combonation quad toe, tripel toe..etc. But the ladies who try the quad seem to naturally go for the salchow. Miki has landed the quad salchow, sasha has landed it in practice, mao is pushing the bar further with quad loops and flips. What don't women do the quad in the toe loop? i assume that it would be a little easier, with the toe pick assit. getting four revolutions just from your edge is hard, even the men who can do them, like brian joubert and that i other guy whose name escaepes me... find the toe easier. But then again, i rember that Tim Geobel used to find the quad salchow is favorite. Is it somthing to do with body shape.. or tequince.. is it that the quad toe is easier to put in combonation-somthing the men are often expected to do.?

 

[Mafke]

Surya Bonaly attempted a quad toe loop which wasn't ratified (but which a number of people, including me, think should have been considering some attempts that have been).

After that, I read that ladies gravitated toward the salchow (partly to be 'first' and partly not to have Bonaly's old effort not brought up).

Also, I've read that when it comes to triples, most skaters learn the salchow first (because of the leg position at the beginning of the jump) even though almost everyone finds the toe loop easier once they have both.

 

[flying camel]

I thought Quad selection was based on your best triple. I believe Miki & Sasha's best triples are the Salchow. I don't care to watch girls trying quads. I just feel its too dangerous.

 

[gio]

, like brian joubert and that i other guy whose name escaepes me

Do you mean Frederic Dambier or the chinese guy?

 

[Zuranthium]

It has to do with strength vs. rotation.

Girls, in general, rotate a bit faster than guys but are not able to jump as high.

A toeloop requires more physical strength to rotate than a Salchow, however most people find the toeloop to be the easiest jump to control. For most girls Quads are generally just impossible because they don't get the height that guys do. However, a girl that is really good at the Salchow might find a Quad Sal to be "doable" since it is physically (not mentally) the easiest jump to get rotations with. Bonaly went for the Quad Toe because she had the required amount of strength to push it up into the air.

~Z

 

[ks777]

you know, Midori was practicing a quad jump when she was a teenager but stopped after breaking her leg. I wonder what would have happened if she was competing against Mao or Miki, I am sure she would have done 3axel/3toe and a quad jump. I know Midori did 3axel/3toes in practice cleanly. If she had to push technically to compete againt like Mao or Miki, I am sure she would have mastered a quad jump(probably a quad toe). What do you guys think?

 

[satorare]

Midori Ito's jumping technique was basically dependent on height and distance, while Ando/Asada have faster rotation speed and need less height and distance. High jumps are impressive to watch but cause more injuries. Ito also didn't have flexibility of knees and ankles (especially compared to Mao), which makes the landing harder and damaging to her body. Kim has same problems.

 

[iloveaxel]

quad

I don't believe quad will be possible in women's competitions any time soon. Sure, Miki or Mao may pull out one or two quads occasionally, but they're nowhere near to master it.

For ladies to master a quad, you need an optimal combination of jump height and rotatation speed. I don't believe either Mao or Miki has hit the height necessary to do quads on a regular basis.

 

[seraf]

Do you mean Frederic Dambier or the chinese guy?

Perhaps Sergei Dobrin? Doesn't he always do salchows in his programs?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think it is time we got over the practice quads. So what if they did one in practice? They should be executed in competitions or performed in shows. then we can nitpick them on their proper execution.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

I was wondering about the quad. When men put the quad in ther programs, the seem to automatcilly go for the quad toe. often putting it in combonation quad toe, tripel toe..etc. But the ladies who try the quad seem to naturally go for the salchow. Miki has landed the quad salchow, sasha has landed it in practice, mao is pushing the bar further with quad loops and flips. What don't women do the quad in the toe loop? i assume that it would be a little easier, with the toe pick assit. getting four revolutions just from your edge is hard, even the men who can do them, like brian joubert and that i other guy whose name escaepes me... find the toe easier. But then again, i rember that Tim Geobel used to find the quad salchow is favorite. Is it somthing to do with body shape.. or tequince.. is it that the quad toe is easier to put in combonation-somthing the men are often expected to do.?

I think its just the simple difference detween skates who prefer edge jump to toe jumps. The toe loop and salchow are seen as about even in terms of difficulty so its just a question of preference really.

Ant

 

[Tinymavy15]

Do you mean Frederic Dambier or the chinese guy?

I meant Sandu but yes, Changjang Li also had a quad salchow.

 

[enlight78]

I think women lean towards the triple salcow becaus they only have to do 3 1/4 revolutions in the air. So they won't need a great height to do it.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I think women lean towards the triple salcow becaus they only have to do 3 1/4 revolutions in the air. So they won't need a great height to do it.

how is the salchow 3 and 1/4th? the takoff is simalr to that of an axel, so 3 and 1/2 maybe. How do you cut that 1/2 into 1/4????

 

[blue dog]

Miki Onda goes for the quad in the closing of the gala!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDb6wEBMNAA

 

[ks777]

Miki Onda goes for the quad in the closing of the gala!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDb6wEBMNAA

you mean Miki Ando!

 

[enlight78]

how is the salchow 3 and 1/4th? the takoff is simalr to that of an axel, so 3 and 1/2 maybe. How do you cut that 1/2 into 1/4????

3/4 prerotation and a slight cheat on the landing. Ladies rotate so fast their is a good chance they will get away with it.

 

[Zuranthium]

how is the salchow 3 and 1/4th? the takoff is simalr to that of an axel, so 3 and 1/2 maybe. How do you cut that 1/2 into 1/4????

A Triple Axle isn't really 3 1/2 rotations in the air. Everyone pre-rotates by 1/4 to 1/2 of a turn.

~Z

 

[enlight78]

I just thought of something. Maybe Cop should give an automatic plus two GOE for complete rotations. No prerotations and no cheats. All rotations must take place while both blades are not in contact with the ice. Very few will get it.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I just thought of something. Maybe Cop should give an automatic plus two GOE for complete rotations. No prerotations and no cheats. All rotations must take place while both blades are not in contact with the ice. Very few will get it.

yeah. joubert would get it often, and yu-na.