The ones who get caught with prohibited substances in their bodies during or after a competition are downright stupid. The East Germans tested their athletes before the left the country to go for competitions. The U.S. did the same in the 80's. If they found something they weren't allowed to leave the country and compete if they couldn't be sure that they were absolutely clean until competition.
Russia Doping Report
- Thread starter cruzceleste
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- Jun 21, 2003
I should have said "widely believed" rather than "well established."
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- Nov 19, 2010
Last year I watched a good documentary about doping in Russia on German TV https://presse.wdr.de/plounge/tv/das_erste/2014/12/_pdf/20141208_PM_Doping_Sport_inside_Engl.pdf
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- Dec 21, 2014
It is a hard situation because if you have young athletes who were pushed to use these drugs by coaches, leaders, and people or organizations in power then penalizing the athletes isn't really solving anything. The people who should be punished are the people in power who are responsible. While it is wrong and unfair that athletes who doped probably won events over those who didn't, turning this into a witch hunt against all Russian athletes isn't going to help. What needs to be weeded out is who are the people responsible for this large of a scandal.
In track doping is especially monitored now because of the history of cheating. Some of the world records in women's running are considered unbeatable because they are held by athletes who were likely using performance enhancing substances.
In track doping is especially monitored now because of the history of cheating. Some of the world records in women's running are considered unbeatable because they are held by athletes who were likely using performance enhancing substances.
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- Nov 19, 2010
Wouldn't any record be stripped along with the medal if cheating is proven?
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- May 24, 2013
I think in track and field the doping can help a lot. And it is known that unfortunately many countries from the East (I mean Eastern block during Cold War) and not only from the East had their doping system in the past. Some of them apparently still have it.
But if we talk about figure skating I don't think it is too bad. There are just a few cases from the past IIRC. I think that doping wouldn't be so useful in figure skating. If you have problem with outside edge on the lutz, or if you do one bad movement with your arm before you start rotate the doping won't help you. Maybe in FS it could be helpful just for someone who has got a problem with condition or maybe for males in pairs skating so they could lift their partner more easily (but the ladies in pairs skating are very tiny anyway). So yes, doping might be a problem, and we could say a big problem for some sports(track and field, cycling, weightlifting) but I think (and hope) the figure skating is not damaged so much.
But if we talk about figure skating I don't think it is too bad. There are just a few cases from the past IIRC. I think that doping wouldn't be so useful in figure skating. If you have problem with outside edge on the lutz, or if you do one bad movement with your arm before you start rotate the doping won't help you. Maybe in FS it could be helpful just for someone who has got a problem with condition or maybe for males in pairs skating so they could lift their partner more easily (but the ladies in pairs skating are very tiny anyway). So yes, doping might be a problem, and we could say a big problem for some sports(track and field, cycling, weightlifting) but I think (and hope) the figure skating is not damaged so much.
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- Mar 23, 2010
Lord Coe is very angry, darn right furious. He is very proud of his track and field Olympic medals and of course he is likely to take these sort of going on personally.
So never say never. These are the medals count for London 2012 that may be in question.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/wada-iaaf-russia-dick-pound-banned
Dick pound is recommending five coaches and five middle-distance runners from Russia, among them gold and bronze medal winners in London, be banned from athletics for life.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/09/russian-athletics-wada-report-doping-political
I feel really bad for any innocent hard working athletes get caught up in this mess. Talk about not having a choice if you are born into the system. It will be interesting to see if they investigate outside Russia, they really should, just to be fair to clean up this mess.
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- Apr 14, 2014
No, I don't think it well established at all and I think that is a slur against clean athletes in the sport. There are many athletes (from many countries) who do not have one test, suspicious blood profile, avoided test or rumour darkening their names at all and to just assume that they 'must be at it' is a calumny that is unfortunately precipitated by the dreadful actions of a large percentage.
The report was commissioned with a narrow mandate to look at Russia because that was the country which had allegations made against it in a German TV documentary. They were trying to see how accurate the documentary was and so to paint it as some awful conspiracy to 'get Russia' is ridiculous.
It claimed Russian athletes paid 5% of their earnings to domestic doping officials to supply banned substances and cover-up tests, while athletics' world governing body the IAAF was implicated in covering up the abuse. A former anti-doping official (from Russia!) as well as testimony from Russian athletes was in the programme. Were they supposed to ignore this?
As has been said, non-Russian officials from the IAAF have been implicated and the only reason that more about this is not in the report is that there is a criminal investigation happening.
The report says that there was intentional and malicious destruction of more than 1,400 samples by Moscow laboratory officials after receiving written notification from Wada to preserve target samples. That isn't just coaches colluding with a few athletes to dope or a few rotten apples. That is systemic corruption.
So, although unfair to clean athletes in Russia, I can understand why they've called for a ban on Russia taking part in Worlds and perhaps the Rio Olympics. I think they are convinced that only a real sharp and obvious shock like that will change the system.
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Is it unfair to all clean russian athletes? And do they really think that only russian use doping? That's ridiculous.
So, if I'm for example a clean athlete, who worked hard for 4 years and lived an Olympic dream, I should be baned because I'm russian? Isn't it politic kind of things?
If someone is using doping - just prove it and disqualifie them.
The only doping that comes straight to my mind talking about figure skating is weight reduction pills (Larionov was caught on that). But it is really a rare thing in figure skating.
So, if I'm for example a clean athlete, who worked hard for 4 years and lived an Olympic dream, I should be baned because I'm russian? Isn't it politic kind of things?
If someone is using doping - just prove it and disqualifie them.
The only doping that comes straight to my mind talking about figure skating is weight reduction pills (Larionov was caught on that). But it is really a rare thing in figure skating.
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- Apr 14, 2014
The report shows that the Russian doping agency, labs and officials have colluded to 'protect' dopers and have intimidated some athletes into doping. No, it isn't only Russian athletes who dope. However, I and others have explained above why it was only Russia that was investigated in this instance (although IAAF officials are being investigated too). I do hope that a full report into federations across the world will be done. I also hope that doping control will be completely taken out of the hands of national federations. However, at this time, it is Russia who have been shown to have systemic drug cheating and that needs to be dealt with. If they are suspended from competing for a year in the first instance, it may give the shove that is needed to sort this out.
Id be ok if they would for example test everybody in a more strict way in Rio.
Id be ok if they would investigate and ban people who are really guilty of it.
But just saying "tons of russian athletes dope, lets ban a bunch for life and not let the remaining to participate in Olympics" is awful. No "it is needed to shake the system" excuse please. Punishng innocent people (until proven that X dopes, X is innocent no matter his/her nationality), just to shake the system is not justified by any means.
Like, Kostner was involved in a doping scandal, so lets keep all italian athletes from participating in next Winter Olympic Games so they learn doping is bad. Is that fair?
Id be ok if they would investigate and ban people who are really guilty of it.
But just saying "tons of russian athletes dope, lets ban a bunch for life and not let the remaining to participate in Olympics" is awful. No "it is needed to shake the system" excuse please. Punishng innocent people (until proven that X dopes, X is innocent no matter his/her nationality), just to shake the system is not justified by any means.
Like, Kostner was involved in a doping scandal, so lets keep all italian athletes from participating in next Winter Olympic Games so they learn doping is bad. Is that fair?
The results of this report is just recommendation. So, no presumption of innocence not only for the participants, but for all athletes? Isn't it too much and how it will help to make a better controling system?
About boikot to the Olympics - it reminds me a Max Trankov father story, as he should be a part of Olympic team 84, but because of SU boikot the games (as well as some countries boikoted OG 80) wasn't able to participate and how it affect him. It was a one person drama. So, should we say hello to 80-s? Do you really think it will help?
About boikot to the Olympics - it reminds me a Max Trankov father story, as he should be a part of Olympic team 84, but because of SU boikot the games (as well as some countries boikoted OG 80) wasn't able to participate and how it affect him. It was a one person drama. So, should we say hello to 80-s? Do you really think it will help?
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- Apr 14, 2014
They are not talking about banning innocent people for life. They are talking about banning people guilty of the most flagrant drug cheating for life.
They are also recommending suspending Russia maybe for Worlds at first. Basically, if you read the report, they are sure that it is extremely difficult to withstand the systemic, even sometimes intimidatory, pressure to dope. Should young Russian athletes just be left to flounder in that system?
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- Dec 29, 2013
This document holds the answers I believe.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada_independent_commission_report_1_en.pdf
I'm sifting thru it as best I can but it just seems like a lot of generalizations with little facts being released on specific proof or evidence in comparison to the mammoth report.
The Guadian story is completely sensationalized and a good chuckle as is usual for their standards.
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- Apr 14, 2014
This document holds the answers I believe.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada_independent_commission_report_1_en.pdf
I'm sifting thru it as best I can but it just seems like a lot of generalizations with little facts being released on specific proof or evidence in comparison to the mammoth report.
The Guadian story is completely sensationalized and a good chuckle as is usual for their standards.
Well, I suggest reading further because there are interviews, specific allegations with names, figures etc.
And should they be baned, everyone? Even if they wasn't the part of the doping system?
If they really wanted to do some fair changes for the name of clean sport, why do they choose Olympics? Or do they want to demoralize the athletes before the important competition? Isn't it some dirty business?
Worlds would be after Olympics and even Olympics would be more than half a year from now. Isn't it enough time to make some changes if whey would be needed?
If they really wanted to do some fair changes for the name of clean sport, why do they choose Olympics? Or do they want to demoralize the athletes before the important competition? Isn't it some dirty business?
Worlds would be after Olympics and even Olympics would be more than half a year from now. Isn't it enough time to make some changes if whey would be needed?
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- Mar 23, 2010
This document holds the answers I believe.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/files/wada_independent_commission_report_1_en.pdf
I'm sifting thru it as best I can but it just seems like a lot of generalizations with little facts being released on specific proof or evidence in comparison to the mammoth report.
The Guadian story is completely sensationalized and a good chuckle as is usual for their standards.
Actually you couldn't be more wrong.
The Guardian is one of the most respected and credible broadsheets in the UK along the side of The Times, the Telegraph, and Independent. It is hardly the Dailymail or News of the world. Its views are general of liberal stance, pride itself on well researched balanced independent views and groundbreaking legit news rather than one of sensationalism, or serving as some sort political mouthpiece, which even the BBC falls into that trap at times. If I am a maverick journalist, that is the paper I want to work for.
I suspect the reason there aren't facts published is because everything is currently going through a criminal investigation as well decisions are still to be made. Do you call BBC sensationalism? It is the current headline on BBC News.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/34765444
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- Apr 14, 2014
And how exactly when labs are destroying samples by the thousand is what you are asking to be achieved?
When there are officials, coaches, selection personnel, laboratories, doctors, medical directors and other people involved in the support systems of these athletes being accused of rampant cheating, how on earth can they send athletes off with a pat on the back just saying, "Oh, well, don't cheat, there's a dear!"
When there are officials, coaches, selection personnel, laboratories, doctors, medical directors and other people involved in the support systems of these athletes being accused of rampant cheating, how on earth can they send athletes off with a pat on the back just saying, "Oh, well, don't cheat, there's a dear!"
It probably isn't, because the athletes are "worth" more, because the federations (if they invest in their athletes) have to invest quite a lot in figure skaters, because it's an expensive sport. They wouldn't want to destroy their valuable goods. And in countries where the parents have to pay for skating I hope that they have their children's best interests in mind.
But as for the ladies pair skaters: we know that the east germans used steroids also for ladies pair skaters. There are different kinds of steroids, there are some where you don't bulk, but actually can help you lose weight. Because those ladies have to be super strong, super thin and brave (that's where the psychotropic drugs come in).
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