Russia Doping Report

[solani]

I'm surprised this came up now. IIRC, there was an article before Sochi saying Russians were using Xenon gas which somehow faded away........

That's true and they did, cross country skiing was mentioned as far as I remember, but it wasn't on the list of banned substances back then (it was added after Sochi) and there was no evidence (medical studies) that it was indeed performance-enhancing at that point in time (though everybody thinks that it is), so the WADA let it go. So Xenon inhaling is a prohibited method now (because I think that Xenon doesn't leave a trace in one's body but it still does seem to stimulate the production of red blood cells).
It's ok imho that the WADA did let it go, because it was a borderline case. It wasn't prohibited and there was no valid evidence that it was performance enhancing at that point in time.

 

[hurrah]

So the bottom line is, Russia is accused of state-sponsoring doping, and there is ample evidence that xenon was used at Sochi, and somehow, we're supposed to think that all the while when other Olympic athletes are sniffing xenon around them at Sochi, figure skaters didn't?? Come on. That's so unlikely.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I hope that if it comes to that, All of our athletes would be "exonerated", No matter what nation they're from,
It's bad enough we have issues with judges and federations i want to believe the skaters are Pure...


With all this talk about the amounts of athletes who take performance enhancing drugs, And a lot of them getting away with it,
All i can think of is how Carolina Kostner had to sit out all this time despite of being a clean athlete who made some mistake
outside of competition hwell:

She committed perjury. Is lying to authorities trying to clean up sports excusable now?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I can't get over the amount of coverage this story has been getting on the TV over the past 24 hours.

The British media have been going hysterical about the report. They have been going on and on about how this could affect the results from the London 2012 Olympics. (There seems to be a rule in the British media that all stories about sports that are not Men's football have to relate in some way to the 2012 Olympics. And it is so annoying!)

And I have to laugh. Why?

BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A BREAKING NEWS STORY!!!

We had a thread on here about the original German investigation way last year!!!

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ary-accuses-Russia-of-massive-doping-cover-up

The only breaking part of this news is the releasing of the official report.

You know, call me cynical, but I reckon the only reason this story is getting so much coverage in the British media is because national hero Seb Coe is now the head of the IAAF. The initial investigation (before Seb took over) did not get anywhere near the same sort of attention.

Nevertheless, criticism of the way the media is covering the story aside, this is a very serious issue. And, something needs to be done to stamp it out.

As I said in the original thread last year, I really hope that this doping scandal does not extend to figure skating.

(And as I also said about that original thread, perhaps the title of this thread should be edited to make it more obvious that the report is primarily about athletics. This is a figure skating forum, so most people would see the title and automatically assume that the report was specifically about figure skating. And given how heated the debates about the Sochi results got, I really don't want it to all blow up again).

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Mista Ekko]

She committed perjury. Is lying to authorities trying to clean up sports excusable now?

I know you're trying to get a point across,
But i think you understood what i was saying

 

[TheGrandSophy]

To be fair, CaroLiza_fan, the report itself talks of London 2012 being sabotaged by cover ups etc so that is the reason they are bringing up London 2012. Also, of course an official report confirming the findings is going to get more coverage than a TV documentary. Also, on top of the revelations about FIFA and other sports' bodies, it is one more example of corruption in sport. Of course it will be big news.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I know you're trying to get a point across,
But i think you understood what i was saying

And I think YOU don't get what I'm saying. What Kostner did was not some "little mistake." She deliberately tried to cover up for a boyfriend by committing perjury. Perjury. Please name me ONE court system in the entire universe which considers perjury a "little mistake." And by calling it a "little mistake" you are, in essence, trying to excuse what she did, because after all, she didn't dope herself. Well sorry but that kind of moral juggling is not my cuppa. And that kind of juggling is what leads to things like doping scandals. Because "everyone is doing it," right?

 

[Sam L]

Considering the history of Russian figure skating scandals, this type of thing isn't really surprising. I don't care about sports like athletics. I just hope the ISU is taking necessary precautionary measures so that all types of cheating doesn't occur in figure skating.

 

[Alex D]

Questions remain unanswered

After Beijing, I wrote an article about the German investigation, sadly I can not link it here.

In my opinion, a lot that currently happens is a political move, to put blame on a nation that seems to be the target for everyone, who has something shady to hide. I am pretty convinced that doping is not a Russian thing, it´s a world wide problem and it does start at kiddy level already. Parents pressure their kids into more and more, they must make up for things that the parents could not realize in their own life. They work with coaches and know, that the pills their kids take, do change the young ones, but they do not care.

Once the kids realize what their coaches and parents did to them, it´s too late and they depend on these things to stay on top and you want to stay on top, believe me that. We have athletes in sport, breaking world records over and over again, but nothing is done. However, once a Russian situation comes up, everyone jumps on said nation, like a bunch of wild animals. I find that very sad, but that´s just how it is I guess.

While Western and African athletes make millions a month, Russians need to take the blame all the time, despite not even winning as many medals as other nations. Fact is, marketing in Russia is nothing compared to the US, GB or Jamaica. Therefore, the Russian athletes are expendables and can be fed to the public, which is exactly what just happens. The shady deals in other nations, however, will remain hidden as always.

But also the "fans" are there to blame. Too many don´t want to see the times in relation to how "they were done", they don´t want to destroy that bubble which they created for themselves, believing in fair and healthy sport.
They keep paying thousands of $$$ to see someone break world records, not questioning how someone can be faster than those who cheated in the past, while attacking everyone who might question the performances. But also the media is not critical & suspicious enough. I actually had a huge fight with someone a while ago, as he felt I was dumb to not support him and his claims about someone when I wrote my article, criticizing his work. Swimming against the swarm most journalists fear, as you will easily lose your job if you don´t just nod and copy what everyone already posts. The result is, a very one sided story, not just in regards of doping, but journalism in general. And if you don´t follow, a car accident or something similar just happens out of nowhere.....

I am for equality and open minded discussions, so does doping exist in Russia? Maybe it does, most likely even. But, these athletes do not win the medals, so what about those who do?

 

[Mista Ekko]

And I think YOU don't get what I'm saying. What Kostner did was not some "little mistake." She deliberately tried to cover up for a boyfriend by committing perjury. Perjury. Please name me ONE court system in the entire universe which considers perjury a "little mistake." And by calling it a "little mistake" you are, in essence, trying to excuse what she did, because after all, she didn't dope herself. Well sorry but that kind of moral juggling is not my cuppa. And that kind of juggling is what leads to things like doping scandals. Because "everyone is doing it," right?

I'm sorry, Did someone forget to take their happy pills this morning? :hap85:

 

[Mathman]

And I think YOU don't get what I'm saying. What Kostner did was not some "little mistake."

I've gotta go with Mista Ekko on that one. She said her boyfriend was out of town when he wasn't. Not exactly planting a bomb on a plane with 200 passengers.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I've gotta go with Mista Ekko on that one. She said her boyfriend was out of town when he wasn't. Not exactly planting a bomb on a plane with 200 passengers.

Is Caro about to hijack this thread though?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

To be fair, CaroLiza_fan, the report itself talks of London 2012 being sabotaged by cover ups etc so that is the reason they are bringing up London 2012. Also, of course an official report confirming the findings is going to get more coverage than a TV documentary. Also, on top of the revelations about FIFA and other sports' bodies, it is one more example of corruption in sport. Of course it will be big news.

First a disclaimer: I haven't read the report itself.

And I agree with your point about an official report holding more weight than a TV investigation.

But, it is just irritating me how much the coverage is being slanted towards London 2012. Let's face it, doping happens all the time in many sports. But with the way the media is going on at the moment, you would think it was only at the London Olympics.

I am not really interested in summer sports. Apart from the Women's football, I didn't watch any of the London Olympics.

I much prefer winter sports. So, I am surprised that there has not been much talk about the systematic doping that has been going on in Russia's biathlon teams for donkey's years.

Which brings us to a couple of important things that I think should be emphasised. After originally starting the thread, cruzceleste added a number of quotes to the OP that referred to the Sochi Olympics.

Firstly, can I just say that it is good to see that winter sports were not forgotten about in the report, as they seem to be in the media coverage.

Secondly, unlike what some of the posters to the second thread that was merged into this one seem to think, just because Sochi was mentioned, it does not necessarily mean that figure skating was involved. Personally, I suspect that what was described in those quotes as going on in that lab was to cover up the systematic doping that was happening in biathlon.

Also, on top of the revelations about FIFA and other sports' bodies, it is one more example of corruption in sport. Of course it will be big news.

I hadn't actually thought of it like that. Yes, you're right. This report getting so much attention is probably because it has come right on the back of the FIFA scandal.

But, to me, doping in sport is much more serious than corruption in sport. So, now that you have put that thought in my mind, I am glad that this story is now getting so much attention.

Let's face it, the coverage that the FIFA scandal was getting was WAY over the top! I don't want to belittle the crime, but to be blunt, corruption is happening EVERYWHERE, not just in sport. The only reason that the media was interested in this particular corruption story is that it involved football. (Men's football is another sport I'm not interested in).

So, in a way, it is good to see that something much more serious, something that is directly affecting the results of the sports, is now getting more attention.

But, it still annoys me how the British media are placing so much emphasis on London 2012, and not the many other sports and events that are covered by the report.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[tulosai]

I found the title of the thread troubling since it implies that Adeline doped and it is a matter of finding it out. If we assume she did not dope, the whole investigation thing wouldn't matter to her at all. Adelina is not the only Russian figure skater who medaled either. She had a controversial win at Sochi, but to pick on that again and again is not right.

I don't see any way in which the thread title implies this? Frankly, I don't think there is any way the thread title could be more general.

 

[Mathman]

Is Caro about to hijack this thread though?

Yeah, let's get back to Kyoko Ina.

http://web.icenetwork.com/images/2010/09/09/5DMR8zfi.jpg

When the drug lady showed up at Ina's house late at night, accompanied by her boyfriend because she was afraid to venture out at that hour alone, Ina was unable to produce a sample. She got a four-year suspension and went pro immediately.

 

[tulosai]

Oh yeah, the 'oxygen' thingy I referred to was actually about Xenon gas:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/03/xenon-gas-as-a-performance-enhancing-drug-doping-or-just-hot-air/

I am almost certain Russian figure skaters were administered this gas at Sochi. That said, as the article says, it is difficult to officially designate xenon gas as dope, even though it is actually that.

From what I gather from the article and other sources though it's not actually forbidden to use the gas? That is to say, an athlete could come forward and say they used it and since it's not a forbidden substance nothing would be done?

I'm not saying I approve its use (I would need to read more to really get a grip on this) and whether it should be forbidden is its own question. However, if it's not forbidden they were allowed to use it, and so I find it hard to get outraged at the fact that they did, assuming this is indeed true.

 

[alebi]

well this is the result of the investigation we already talked one year ago (plus the evidence of Diack involvement) so no need to add anything new
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...ary-accuses-Russia-of-massive-doping-cover-up

 

[alebi]

From what I gather from the article and other sources though it's not actually forbidden to use the gas? That is to say, an athlete could come forward and say they used it and since it's not a forbidden substance nothing would be done?

I'm not saying I approve its use (I would need to read more to really get a grip on this) and whether it should be forbidden is its own question. However, if it's not forbidden they were allowed to use it, and so I find it hard to get outraged at the fact that they did, assuming this is indeed true.

it became forbidden AFTER Sochi, because it was clear it gave some advantages.
As I wrote in the old tread, every time a country is hosting a OG, they try new way to enhance their athletes performance. Till that moment you can use it because it's a new thing and so it's not forbidden. Then, seen the consequences, the WADA start to study the thing and then decide if it's ok or if it'll be put in the banned list (what happened to Xenon in October if I remember properly)

 

[hurrah]

From what I gather from the article and other sources though it's not actually forbidden to use the gas? That is to say, an athlete could come forward and say they used it and since it's not a forbidden substance nothing would be done?

I'm not saying I approve its use (I would need to read more to really get a grip on this) and whether it should be forbidden is its own question. However, if it's not forbidden they were allowed to use it, and so I find it hard to get outraged at the fact that they did, assuming this is indeed true.

Actually, I didn't know either, but the article I quoted is 2 years old and Xenon has actually been banned since, though it actually makes no sense to ban it in some respects because the use of Xenon and other gasses can't be detected through urine.

Maybe the way to solve the conundrum would be to offer this gas to all Olympic athletes, thus levelling out the unfairness of some athletes using it and some not. (I am actually joking, BTW.)

I definitely heard from media individuals whom I personally know who were there at Sochi that use of this gas was common knowledge on the floor. These persons had no reason to lie to me and they only told me about it informally at a social gathering. Whether the substance was banned or not, it does have doping effects, and Russian athletes, including figure skaters, used this substance during Sochi.

I tend to think that skaters like Adelina and Julia can't be engaging in other doping methods now, even if they had been before, because Adelina immediately got seriously injured after Sochi and she reportedly has back pain, and I don't think that would be happening if she were doping now. Julia, likewise, because her body has changed pretty drastically after Sochi, and those physical changes probably could have been ameliorated if she were doping.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I don't see any way in which the thread title implies this? Frankly, I don't think there is any way the thread title could be more general.

tulosai – while us in Europe were safely tucked up in bed, gmyers started a second thread on the subject in Le Café.

That thread has since been merged into this one. But, you can still see the title in what was the Original Post of the second thread:

"Will sotnikova and more lose sochi medals?"​

hippomoomin's comment was originally in this second thread.

So, although their complaint does not make sense now, it did when it was first posted.

CaroLiza_fan