Sandhu The New Gpf Champ Of 2003!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shine]

It's not as if Plushy threw in an easy combination just to get the points. He did what nobody else in the competition could do. On the other hand, skaters like Kevin VDP and Carolina Kostner, are totally milking the CoP with their triple/triples and multiple double axels. To me, that is not leading towards a well-balanced program.

So what if he threw in a difficult combination? It is is still thrown in. Jumps shouldn't be infinitely rewarded, period. And what about KVDP and Kostner? Did they violate the no 3rd combo rule and not get penalized this season??? I have no problem if the jumps are put into the program as a part of the thoughtful choreography, but not as a mere tool for skaters to rack up points, which is what Plushenko did.

 

[moyesii]

The problem exposed by this outcome affects far more than just Sandhu or Plushenko. The avalanche of changes in the COP should not have been made relevant so soon. The ISU's lack of respect and understanding for the skaters should disturb fans of Sandhu and Plushenko alike.

This is well-said.

This is why I'm disturbed by the elation with which people seem to be celebrating Plushy's loss, despite the surrounding context. Rules are NOT rules, when the system is a mere work in progress. The reaction truly reveals certain skating fans' true colors. Now I know why a CoP discussion gets nowhere with certain people.

Shine, I wouldn't say Plushy just "threw in" a combination. He threw in a double loop at the end of his 2nd quad. But the basic jumps (2 quads, triple axel) were all executed as planned. A mere double loop cost Plushy the gold. He threw it in not for points, but to push the technical boundaries of the sport. It could have been a performance similar to Irina Slutskaya's Don Quixote at the GPF. The CoP will hinder the progress of the sport, because it is too rigid and unadaptable, and will always be behind the times.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I really think what everyone is saying is that the CoP needs tweeking (or fine tuning) or drastic rule changes. In either case, I hope such action takes place before the Olys.

I'm not a big Grand Prix fan, but I do get information about certain skaters strengths and weaknesses from it. I think this final has shown that the top skaters in the world today are vulnerable.

Sandhu won this. We'll get to see it and if we must compare it with the 6.0 system, we will. And then let's move on.

Joe

 

[dlkksk8fan]

Wow I just read this in the paper and was very surprised and pleased! Sandhu is one of my favorite skaters and I am glad he pulled it together to win.

Congrats to him!!

 

[rtureck]

Congrats Eman

 

[hockeyfan228]

Hockeyfan, I researched this at the time. Getting credit for the combo does NOT mean she even attempted it. Here is an exerpt from the rules:
Only two jumps with 3 or more revolutions can be repeated in the Free Program and they must be in either a jump combination or in a jump sequence. A repeated triple or quadruple solo jump, not included into a jump combination or jump sequence, will be considered as a part of a not successfully executed jump combination and counted as a jump combination with only one jump executed. If two jump combinations or jump sequences ( in total ) have already been executed, the repeated solo jump will be treated as an additional element and therefore not considered.
So, counter intuitive as it is, Sasha got "credit" for combo absolutely legitimately. Indeed, her base score for it was 6.1, which is a base score for lutz ONLY.

You're absolutely right; I had forgotten about that definition.

What I can't find are references to "minimum" requirements for the LP, which I've heard spoken about here and by TV commentators. (Is this a carryover rule from the old system?)

If there are minimum requirements, and one is a combo in the LP, I wonder if this is an unintentional loophole that bypasses the Zayak rule for truly missed combos/sequences in light of CoP, or if this is to counter the Zayak rule. For most missed combos, I've seen the skater tack on a 1T or 2T to create a "sequence" after the fall.

 

[curious]

If this would have happen to Timmy or Sasha people would not be as happy as they are here

 

[hockeyfan228]

If this would have happen to Timmy or Sasha people would not be as happy as they are here

I wouldn't be so sure. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would have gloated had Cohen lost a competition because she didn't follow the rules, especially since she's and Tarasova have solicited so much advice on how to maximize the points.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Quote by Hockeyfan
_____________________________________________

If there are minimum requirements, and one is a combo in the LP, I wonder if this is an unintentional loophole that bypasses the Zayak rule for truly missed combos/sequences in light of CoP, or if this is to counter the Zayak rule. For most missed combos, I've seen the skater tack on a 1T or 2T to create a "sequence" after the fall.
____________________________________________________

If there is a minimum requjirement of at least one combo for the
LP, the now famous Sasha case of missing two combos and not throwing one in which would surely hit like a dbl x dbl. this would satisfy the requirement but if there is no deduction for not doing one, then so what?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Hey RTureck, your lucky numbers paid off!

Mathman

 

[rtureck]

Hey RTureck, your lucky numbers paid off!

Mathman

Well all praises be to the skate gods.

 

[icestar]

more about combo's

In the LP a combination jump is required, and there is a manditory deduction for not having one in there. Just like 4 spins are manditory in the Mens LP.

The CoP system did not change the rules about the number of combinations in a program, skaters were never allowed to do more than 2 combo's in a program. In Plushenko's case it looks like he wanted to be the first person to do a quad toe/double loop combo, but he usually does the first quad in series with toe and loop. And would have been fine doing the axel combo later. He just lost track of what he was doing and had done already in the program and it cost him big time. But those are the rules, otherwise there would be skaters doing a combo for every jump in the program.

I do think that there is too much value put on combinations in the CoP, but that is another story. A solo quad is harder to do than a triple axel combo. but gets less points, I've done both and know the quad is by far more difficult.

 

[berthes ghost]

The CoP system did not change the rules about the number of combinations in a program, skaters were never allowed to do more than 2 combo's in a program.

Where did you get this from? I know that I've seen the rules that state it was 3, I just don't remember where I got them from. Another poster probably.

Sarah did 3 combos at SLC : 3s/3r, 3t/3r and 3z/2t. Kurt did 3 combos back at 91 worlds : 3s/3r, 3x/3t, 3x/2r. Those are only 2 I can think of, I'm sure that there are more.

 

[Smiley0884]

I know some people think Plushy was robbed, but to be honest, if Plushy was so great he would have had enough points to beat Emanuel even with the 3rd combonation flub.


I think it's just scaring a few Plush fans, and it's a real wake up call that Plush is NOT unbeatable.

CONGRATS EMANUEL!!!!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Re: more about combo's

In the LP a combination jump is required, and there is a manditory deduction for not having one in there. Just like 4 spins are manditory in the Mens LP.

Just what is a mandatory deduc tion CoP? I thought deductions were based on the pluses and minuses.

If someone attmpts a combo; doesn't complete the combo; only the first jump. It appears that the judges mark the first jump. Ok, I get that but where does the mandatory deduction come in for no combo in the routine?

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

3) Major COP controversy! Expect lots of complaining from some of the anti-ISU crowd, and expect the ISU to ignore them completely. Hopefully, the anti-ISU people will focus on the real fault here: The hasty implementation of the COP resulting in Plushenko's ignorance of a major rule, instead of the rule itself.

I'm Anti-ISU... but I'm Pro-Code Of Points... I wasn't a the beginning of the season... but after seeing how it's working.... I think it has potential. Is it perfect? Not yet... but if the ISU wasn't involved with the stupid "protection of the judges" then maybe it would be LOL

 

[Mathman]

Re: more about combo's

A solo quad is harder to do than a triple axel combo. but gets less points, I've done both and know the quad is by far more difficult.

Icestar, OK, now I am officially impressed out of my mind. Can you really do a quad and a triple Axel combo? Are you a famous skater in disguise?

Anyway, welcome to Golden Skate. I hope you like it here, and I look forward to your posts.

Mathman

 

[windspirit]

I know some people think Plushy was robbed, but to be honest, if Plushy was so great he would have had enough points to beat Emanuel even with the 3rd combonation flub.

Oh please. Practically every skater does just what they have to do to beat their closest competition (and not, for instance, three times as that). And I think it's especially wise in Plushenko case, since he's skating injured. As for your comment "if Plushy was so great" -- he is great. He's proved that countless times. The loss of that competition doesn't take anything from his 'greatness'. Emanuel, on the other hand, still has to prove himself (I'm talking about his consistency mostly). There are many very talented skaters, and that's why to be really great you have to be consistent.

What I think Eman's fans should cherish most in this case, is the fact that he skated two programs back to back without mistakes in a big competition. If that's a glimpse of the future, more power to Eman. I have absolutely no problem with enjoying someone's well deserved success, my favorite skater or not.

I think it's just scaring a few Plush fans, and it's a real wake up call that Plush is NOT unbeatable.

No one is unbeatable. I don't see anything to be scared about here. I'd love if Eman got more consistent, because that would push Plushenko, and other skaters, to be even more good. Keep them on their toes, so to speak, and don't let them slack off. And that, I think, would be most gratifying to most figure skating fans.

I do want other skaters to really challenge my favorites. That way if my favorite wins, it's even more enjoyable, because they managed to win over people who were as good. If they lose, it's not as painful as if they lost to someone who just had a really lucky day, while they had a really bad one.

Congratulations to Eman! Keep up the good work.

 

[Tonichelle]

I really hope that the new rivarly of fans is NOT going to be EMAN fans vs Plushy fans...

I don't think anyone's running scared so much as it's just a huge shock that someone that everyone normally counts out beat out the favorite, I am not a fan of either skater... my favorite made the bronze! LOL... but I also don't think Eman is any better than Plushy and vice versa

I'm still waiting to see what happens for Eman the rest of the season...

 

[bleuchick]

maybe I am reading the wrong articles but didn't they say in addition to add a 3rd combo:

1. he turned a required triple to double axel
2. after doing the 3rd combo, he did not do the triple salchow

these alone cost him more than doing the 3rd combo.