Sasha. Comeback. Believe it.

[soogar]

Does Sasha have two events? I can't tell with all the discussion going back and forth. From what I understand, there are some slots that the event organizers can fill at their discretion. If she got TEB, perhaps the officials decided to give her a slot that they may have normally elected one of the home skaters to receive. Skate America typically rounds out the competition with up and coming American skaters in addition to the slated competitors.

I don't know why people are getting in a tizzy over this. She the reigning Olympic Silver medalist and has remained eligible for ISU competitions. Further she has always competed in her Grand Prix events and has a long history at TEB. Why wouldn't the event organizers extend her an invitation?

I'm cautiously excited about the prospect of Sasha returning. The two Grand Prix events signify a seriousness about her return as opposed to merely showing up at Nationals. She has the guts to put herself out there and be judged and I hope her results are encouraging.

 

[Mathman]

If she got TEB, perhaps the officials decided to give her a slot that they may have normally elected one of the home skaters to receive.

No; those three slots were filled by French skaters -- Candice Didier and the TBA twins.

 

[sillylionlove]

No; those three slots were filled by French staters -- Candice Didier and the TBA twins.

That TBA person sure is skating in alot of grand prix's. How did they get more then 2 assignments???

 

[Particle Man]

If the Olys have nothing to do with the GPs as was pointed out to me, I have to ask: Would Jenny Kirk get the same treatment as Sasha if she announced her return to competitive skating. Of course not, she would have to go through regionals, etc.

Jenny Kirk never even made the grand prix final. Sasha won GPF gold and silver. Amazing how this is magically ignored?

 

[gkelly]

That TBA person sure is skating in alot of grand prix's. How did they get more then 2 assignments???

And in both men's and women's events???

 

[janetfan]

And in both men's and women's events???

This is suspicious. We should start a write-in campaign and demand to see these "unpublished rules." I don't care how many triples this TBA can land. No way should TBA be featured so prominently at the GP's this season. Belive it or not, I just saw the the slots for the GPF and yes....you guessed it. TBA is already listed but no one else. Fraud I say. Rule breakers. Cinquanta must go!

 

[sillylionlove]

And in both men's and women's events???

Pairs and dance too!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Jenny Kirk never even made the grand prix final. Sasha won GPF gold and silver. Amazing how this is magically ignored?

Incredible here when some discussion is on 'how are 2 GPs are awarded' and the immediate response was about Sasha. Using a hypothetical example of Jenny Kirk is like a blatant attack on Sasha. :scratch: Some of us were discussing the rules which obviously are not important to fans of Sasha or S/Z. Piseev followed the rule and gave the one entitled 'home' GP to Plushenko.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As for the TBAs, it is just, imo, that it's an easier way to break the rules. Poor Becky Bereswill will never get a 2nd GP here.

 

[Mathman]

As for the TBAs, it is just, imo, that it's an easier way to break the rules. Poor Becky Bereswill will never get a 2nd GP here.

Actually, I think this could possibly happen. If Michelle doesn't come back, and if Bereswill shows a lot of promise in her other GP event, this might turn out to be the best possible use of that spot.

There is only one week between Becky's NHK event and Skate America, however.

 

[Spun Silver]

I'd like to see Kristine Musademba get it (SA, the one I'll be attending). To me, she's a beautiful skater and has all the basics, but she hasn't quite broken out of her shell yet. But Becky would be great too.

 

[MKFSfan]

Jenny Kirk never even made the grand prix final. Sasha won GPF gold and silver. Amazing how this is magically ignored?

Just out of curiousity...say Fumie did what Sasha did, spent the last three years touring, making various appearances on TV...then she decides to come back. Her last season, 2005-06, she was 1st at Japanese Nats, 2nd at Worlds and 4th at the Olympics, not shabby (was this the year she was 4th at GPF, or did that happen a year later?). Due to her Gold Medal finish at the 2003 GPF, do you think she would've been deserving of a "gift" of 2 assignments as well? I only say "gift" because the rules are still not very clear to me, but the way I am interpreting it is missing competition "due to no fault of their own" has to do with injury, not taking time off to make money elsewhere, especially when one can still skate!

All I'm saying is what Sasha did 3+ years ago at the Olympics and 5+ years ago at GPF shouldn't lend to special consideration unless the rules allow for it. Obviously the ISU bends rules at times, and this time, Sasha and S/Z may benefit, and hopefully so does FS.

I don't know why people are getting in a tizzy over this. She the reigning Olympic Silver medalist and has remained eligible for ISU competitions. Further she has always competed in her Grand Prix events and has a long history at TEB. Why wouldn't the event organizers extend her an invitation?

The "tizzy" stems from trying to understand the rules:
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1403 (pages 3-4)

Then there is this:
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1403

Skaters/couples seeded in any previous year and who due to injury or no fault of there own, were forced to sit out competitive seasons could be considered for selection for up to 2 assignment, if they return to competitive skating.

It's been brought up multiple times in multiple threads, but the understanding was after going down the list, the left over non-seeded skaters can be offered one assignment unless they aren't seeded "due to no fault of their own." Sasha didn't compete last season, so she's not on the list. She also missed competition due to her own choice. Those of us who keep asking and asking are doing so to understand WHY this happened. I don't care, personally if Sasha competes 1, 2, 3 events! Just interested.

 

[nylynnr]

It's been brought up multiple times in multiple threads, but the understanding was after going down the list, the left over non-seeded skaters can be offered one assignment unless they aren't seeded "due to no fault of their own." Sasha didn't compete last season, so she's not on the list. She also missed competition due to her own choice. Those of us who keep asking and asking are doing so to understand WHY this happened. I don't care, personally if Sasha competes 1, 2, 3 events! Just interested.

This happened because US Skating first invited Cohen to Skate America, then submitted the request for Cohen to get a second GP. The ISU Figure Skating Event Coordination Group took the request, and found a host country who would invite her. Obviously China did the same for Shen and Zhao. These moves were within the ISU's published rules, as discussed about two or three pages ago on this thread.

Answering your question on Fumie -- yes, the same activities could have taken place for her, in the hypothetical situation you describe. If the Japanese Federation had invited her to NHK, and then submitted a request to the aforementioned Group, and the Group found a host country to invite her. It could happen for more obscure skaters as well. It's just of course less likely that host countries would be interested in inviting lesser lights.

 

[Particle Man]

Just out of curiousity...say Fumie did what Sasha did, spent the last three years touring, making various appearances on TV...then she decides to come back. Her last season, 2005-06, she was 1st at Japanese Nats, 2nd at Worlds and 4th at the Olympics, not shabby (was this the year she was 4th at GPF, or did that happen a year later?). Due to her Gold Medal finish at the 2003 GPF, do you think she would've been deserving of a "gift" of 2 assignments as well?

Compare Fumie's status among her Japanese peers with Sasha's status among her US peers. Not the same. Mao towers above her unless she's having a really bad day. Miki, strongly competitive and probably above her. Yukari, strongly competitive. Fumie got 5th at the Olympics in 2002, 4th in 2006, has no Olympic medal and certainly no Olympic silver. She did win the GPF, but Sasha holds GPF gold and silver as well. Fumie is 28 1/2 years old, and has shown real vulnerability in the season prior to the last one. Sasha is 24 1/2 and hasn't been off the podium in any event she's skated in for her last 3 years of competition.

So taking everything into consideration, Sasha represents a far stronger skater relative to her country's peers than Fumie, especially in the situation you describe. I seriously doubt she would get 2 GP spots after a 3-year hiatus, but it wouldn't be impossible.

 

[MKFSfan]

Practical Man-All I meant is I think bringing up past accolades that happened a quad ago really holds no value today. I love Michelle, and I don't think she should be given a pass to US Nationals 2010 (for example, not that there is a similarity here!) because of her past achievements. Especially because the rules don't allow for it. If they did, by all means!

This happened because US Skating first invited Cohen to Skate America, then submitted the request for Cohen to get a second GP. The ISU Figure Skating Event Coordination Group took the request, and found a host country who would invite her. Obviously China did the same for Shen and Zhao. These moves were within the ISU's published rules, as discussed about two or three pages ago on this thread.

I thought, and posted, several pages ago this was the case (that non-seeded skaters are entitled to one invite plus the host country CAN invite their own non-seeded skater) but there was no reply to that post. OK, then it makes sense how Sasha and S/Z were assigned two spots! Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[janetfan]

Very good reply particle man. Strong logic as well as good understanding of intl skating scene.
No doubt some will disagree.......but I think your post is right on the money.

 

[Mathman]

I thought, and posted, several pages ago this was the case (that non-seeded skaters are entitled to one invite plus the host country CAN invite their own non-seeded skater) but there was no reply to that post.

There is a long list of which non-seeded skaters are eligible to be invited to a GP event outside their own country. Things like, top 24 in World standing, top 75 in season's best, etc.

The reason there was a controversy is that Sasha was not eligible by any of these criteria.

Then way down at the bottom it says: other skaters can also be invited if they are OKed by the ISU event coordination committee.

That is what happened in Sasha's case.

I love Michelle, and I don't think she should be given a pass to US Nationals 2010 (for example, not that there is a similarity here!) because of her past achievements. Especially because the rules don't allow for it. If they did, by all means!

U.S. nationals is a whole 'nother thing. Sasha gets a an automatic place at U.S. Nationals because she is a reigning Olympic medalist. She does not have to do the grand prix, regionals, or anythig else -- just show up in Spokane.

Michelle does not have an automatic place at Nationals. She must qualify like anyone else.

 

[MKFSfan]

Just to clarify-I know Michelle needs to earn her spot and no bye for Nationals, must do Regionals and Sectionals/SA. All I meant is if the rules don't allow for it, an exception shouldn't be made because of her past resume. Bad example, I guess. Stemmed from the fact I thought that under the current rules, Sasha and S/Z weren't supposed to get a 2nd invite, but now I understand! Thanks!

 

[Particle Man]

I would have no problem with Michelle being allowed to just walk into Nationals. She's Michelle Kwan. She freaking won it nine times. Pick any other current skater you want, to try to form some kind of comparison, and there is no comparison. In a way it would be almost demeaning and/or ridiculous to force Michelle Kwan to go through sectionals and regionals. Many of her fans would scream, but if USFSA told her to do sectionals+regionals I know she would do them with a smile, cause she's cool like that.

Rules are great, and necessary, but common sense is greater. I do think some skaters have earned a rightful status in the skating community, and should be treated with a little more deference than the common rookie, because of their large body of accomplishments. Michelle and Sasha are definitely 2 of them, and that's not fandom talking, it's just common sense.

 

[janetfan]

Rules are great, and necessary, but common sense is greater. I do think some skaters have earned a rightful status in the skating community, and should be treated with a little more deference than the common rookie, because of their large body of accomplishments. Michelle and Sasha are definitely 2 of them, and that's not fandom talking, it's just common sense.

That kind of talk is going to upset some of the "rulesniks" here P-man.
I would tend to agree with you that Michelle, as a 9 time Natl champ should be able to receive an automatic qualification. But like you said, I am sure she will do what is fair and go through qualifying if she chooses to return. I feel the same way about Sasha getting a second GP event. I honestly don't know if it was totally legit, or if some favoritism was shown. All I know is that in my eyes Sasha has earned it. Afterall, we are only talking about a GP event and nothing anywhere near as important as Nationals. On top of that skating is at an all-time low as far as TV coverage/$$$ goes and anyone who can put 2 and 2 together should understand Sasha's return is good for skating.
Just my opinion folks.