Sasha could have been a 3-time Nats Champion and 3-time World medalist
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However the 6.0 system really dings a skater when there is a fall. Kristi really benefits from having a 3-3 that she can plan a 7 triple program but MK's clean 6 triple program will beat a planned 7 triple program that ends up only having 6 triples b/c of a fall.
Either way, it's not as if Kristi was perfect because she often had a fall in her program. On the other hand, as soon as Sasha makes a mistake, Dick and Peggy are already getting on her case even though the program is not even over yet. It's quite annoying because despite Kristi's falls, not once do I recall Kristi getting grilled in the Kiss and Cry b/c she fell. Unlike Sasha who always has to answer what went wrong. Kristi was lucky that she could win with a fall but Sasha has to compete with MK who doesn't fall very often and even rarely falls at Nats.
Either way, it's not as if Kristi was perfect because she often had a fall in her program. On the other hand, as soon as Sasha makes a mistake, Dick and Peggy are already getting on her case even though the program is not even over yet. It's quite annoying because despite Kristi's falls, not once do I recall Kristi getting grilled in the Kiss and Cry b/c she fell. Unlike Sasha who always has to answer what went wrong. Kristi was lucky that she could win with a fall but Sasha has to compete with MK who doesn't fall very often and even rarely falls at Nats.
soogar said:
Too funny.
That's reminds me that no wonder the Sasha's uber young fans at another board pray for MK fall at National. lol.
Seriously, though. COP benefit Sasha more than Michelle as far as clean program vs. falls regards. But still she has to makeup the points (deducted from the fall) through other strong element mark, is that good enough to over come the points, that remains to be seen.
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- Jan 22, 2004
You know I've always felt sorry for Sasha for that same reason. It's an unfair expectation that many have placed on SC to do perfect programs over and over, when in reality only MK has been unusually consistent. Tara L. was really consistent too, but that's the only other lady I can think of. I've always thought that Sasha is actually fairly consistent. She does 5-6 triples on a consistent basis. I think the problem for Sasha is that when she is in a pressure situation she tightens up and even if she lands her usual 5-6 triples, the performance is flat and slow. I saw Sasha at Nats in the LP for the first time live and was completely underwhelmed by her. Nothing stood out. She started off slow and ended even slower. Even her spins were boring, and her jumps that she did land looked very insecure. That's how I would describe Sasha's skating in long programs: insecure. The fire and attack that she seems to have in short programs is always lacking in her long programs. She should work on just making her skating more secure that way even if she does fall, or misses a jump it feels like a strong performance. That's why MK is able to win sometimes with mistakes. Because the other elements and the overall performance still comes off as strong and secure.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I would argue that four of five 6- or 7-triple performances, including successfully landed 3/3 sequences or combos in the three biggest, makes her a consistent skater.soogar said:
equestrianguy said:
There's no arguing that Sasha has what it takes to be a World or Olympic champion but so far she has yet to show us what she's capable of. Until then, all this speculating is pointless with all the ifs, could have beens, might, maybe, etc.
Kuchana said:
Yes, I agree...with the last comment that is. The speculation of what could have been is pointless because it didn't happen. I'm now convinced she is NOT capable of being an Olympic or World champion at this point. She doesn't have the competitiveness; she's not capable of winning the big ones...yet.
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
Sasha is a talented skater very capable of making the podium in big events. She is not the "best ever" that her uber fans claim her to be, but nor is she the total poseur that her detractors like to paint her as. She is a great skater who is very much in the mix at the top -- nothing more, nothing less.
Originally Posted by equestrianguy:
"The international judges love Sasha's classic Russian-like skating"
?? Russia does not have a longstanding "classic" tradition of great lady figure skating champions.
Only two Russian ladies have won Olympic medals: Kira Ivanova, bronze, 1984; Irina Slutskaya, silver, 2002.
A few Russian ladies stood on the World podium in the 1980's: Vodorezova, bronze, 1983; Anna Kondrasiova, silver, 1984; and Kira Ivanova, silver, 1985.
It was not until the 90's that Russian women really broke through, with Irina Slutskaya, Maria Butyrskaya, Julia Soldatova and Elena Sokolova winning 8 World medals, and two Russian World champions: Maria B, in 1999, and Irina in 2002.
Sasha does not have a style anything like either Maria or Irina, so I'm not sure what you mean about "classic Russian-like skating".
"The international judges love Sasha's classic Russian-like skating"
?? Russia does not have a longstanding "classic" tradition of great lady figure skating champions.
Only two Russian ladies have won Olympic medals: Kira Ivanova, bronze, 1984; Irina Slutskaya, silver, 2002.
A few Russian ladies stood on the World podium in the 1980's: Vodorezova, bronze, 1983; Anna Kondrasiova, silver, 1984; and Kira Ivanova, silver, 1985.
It was not until the 90's that Russian women really broke through, with Irina Slutskaya, Maria Butyrskaya, Julia Soldatova and Elena Sokolova winning 8 World medals, and two Russian World champions: Maria B, in 1999, and Irina in 2002.
Sasha does not have a style anything like either Maria or Irina, so I'm not sure what you mean about "classic Russian-like skating".
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
Chuckm,
I was thinking more so of the Russian pairs skating tradition...not the ladies. Also, I meant Sasha's very ballet-like influenced skating which is very evident in the Russian pairs skating.. So I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.. I wasn't talking about Russian ladies single skaters.
I was thinking more so of the Russian pairs skating tradition...not the ladies. Also, I meant Sasha's very ballet-like influenced skating which is very evident in the Russian pairs skating.. So I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear.. I wasn't talking about Russian ladies single skaters.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Ifs and Excuses ease the pain of a fan's sadness. It's good therapy. However, Kwan is not the only one who gets ifs and excuses. Is she?millie said:
Joe
millie said:
MK's 1998 Olympic performance would have beaten Kristi's 1992 OGM performance hands down. Skating clean and winning are two totally different things. If Sasha was skating against Kristi back in the day, Sasha would have probably won a world title or 2 and a national title. Also early 90's skaters weren't as deep as today. Now you have 10 ladies who can skate a decent program. back then , once you got out of the top 6 it was double jump heaven.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
millie said:
Whoa, you had your sugar today.
Not winning 2 competitions that happens to occur every four years, whether or not if it's the biggest one, is not an indicator of any skater's consistency.
Let me explain it to you. Consistency means taking the whole track record and seeing how many clean performances a skater has. To see if one has good consistency, you compare how many clean performances that person compared to other skaters. However, a clean performanceisn't just limited to clean jumps, but landing all of or almost all of your planned content, so I don't think that downgrading three or four jumps would be considered a clean performance.
Then there are skaters who really are consistent with their performances but still don't win due to someone skating better that competition or them lacking in other areas. Them not winning doesn't take away the fact that they are reliable and consistent.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I've never understood the demand of some fans to look at figure skating as if it should be in the style of classical ballet. I would like to see figure skating stand on its own steam and be an original art form not depending on outside influences.equestrianguy said:
I like classical ballet as much as the next skating fan and I go to the theatre and actually watch classical ballet. It is not like figure skating, although I have seen some new ballets which do over the top lifts like figure skating. What some Europeans and Westerners get is the perceived ballet line in some skaters. I see that too, and most skaters have it. It is taught to every student in figure skating from day one: point your toe and turn out at the knee. Some skaters do it well; others have to work at it. And certainly B&S were masters at it, but S&P also had it.
Ballet originated in Italy, nourished by France and Denmark, and demanded by the elite class of Tsarist Russia. We are all indebted to the progress of ballet from wherever it comes. Many fans, however, want to see beyond the 19th century style. Enter Alvin Ailey, Susann Stromann, etc. Nothing wrong with cherishing museum pieces but most art forms are in constant innovation. Why stagnate with figure skating?
Joe
VIETgrlTerifa said:
Completely agreed.
Fans usually fail to appreciate other athletes' longevity at the top other than their own favourites'. Only those who actually have competed in competitions be they professional or amateur, can truly appreciate that because they know exactly how darn difficult it is to have the mental toughness, competitive fire and consistent top skills to be able to compete and still win competitions for 3 years, 5 years, 7 years, 1 decade. I have not read from any skater, retired or not, who has not appreciated Michelle's longevity. Katarina, Kristi, Peggy, Dorothy, Dick, Scott Hamilton and many other skating legends in their own rights have marvelled at Michelle's decade long achievements.
Scott doesn't really marvel at it. He thinks Michelle and a few others should be skating in those old pro shows. I'm sure by now he's shocked that Michelle is still soo popular. I think he expected the it to fade since he made a comment like that some time ago.
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