Scathing article on Sasha and MK

[NorthernLite]

Ok the skating enthusiast in me loves it when we get coverage like this... but coming from a family of journalists I had to cringe at this article. Hirsh danced with libel a few times, especially when he got into the relationship between sasha and robin.

*eyes* The libel standard as it applies to public figures is quite, quite, quite a bit higher than this. Not to mention you don't know if the journalist, *Hersh*, can produce supporting evidence to back the comments he made.

 

[mzheng]

Sasha is headstrong, and perhaps they butted heads. Sounds like deja vu--hasn't she already been there before with TT? :sheesh:

I think that's what TT's work ethic about Sasha. It's the attitude to your senior. Do what you are told to do exactly by your coach/senior. Not about she dosn't work hard or she dosn't spend enough time on ice.

 

[R.D.]

I can't see the whole article because I'm not registered (and don't have time to register) but what if he has a point (about Cohen)? I don't know about the MK part but Cohen seems to be very headstrong and seems to put herself at odds with all her coaches. I mean, take time off for TWO months? What for? A fall-out or something? If what he says is true I see another coach switch in the near future. May as well just go coachless. She can't seem to get it together anyway :sheesh:

I think it's a great idea for her to reach out to the fans, but if that's distracting her from her main goal she should cut down on the breaks, appearances, etc. Now that she's injured she can't do anything about her situation but seems like she did this (the lack of preparation, not the injury) to herself. Or maybe she injured herself trying to train TOO hard to get back in shape? I agree, she did have opportunities to win comps (2004 nationals and 2004 worlds come to mind), but couldn't close the deal. OMG, sounds like one of our sports teams here :sheesh:

I don't see her winning anything this year. With Kwan out of it as well, it might be someone else's turn now. And it should be.

My thoughts only.

 

[R.D.]

I think that's what TT's work ethic about Sasha. It's the attitude to your senior. Do what you are told to do exactly by your coach/senior. Not about she dosn't work hard or she dosn't spend enough time on ice.

That's certainly her teaching method. And I thought that combination of two strong people was just a (fill-in-the-blank) waiting to happen.

I happen to agree here, too. Why have a coach if you don't listen to him/her?

 

[Vash01]

Not a Sasha fan but I hate articles like this. If he's so disappointed in Sasha then maybe he should just say this directly to Sasha.
.

You mean he should pick up the phone, call Sasha and tell her what he thinks of her?

He is a journalist. He writes his opinions about some facts. That's all they are- his opinions.

Vash

 

[BronzeisGolden]

He is a journalist. He writes his opinions about some facts. That's all they are- his opinions.

Very true. And, it is Phil Hersh. I think people need to keep that in mind. I place him in the same category as Christine Brennan. They are knowledgable about the sport, but they are journalists who are paid for this type of work and that are trying to distinguish themselves from the rest of the field...thus they spice it up and try to make it interesting/dramatic, etc. I don't like it, but I guess it is different from the drab "Kwan trains hard" and "Cohen ready for Worlds" type articles you get from most journalists. Still, it is Phil Hersh! Go back and read his past articles and you will see many of them are similar. He stirs the pot. LOL...we should all take turns writing articles and see how scathing and dramatic we can get!

 

[gezando]

I am not sure whether TT and SC butted heads or not. I think they split because Tarasova had to take some students to Russia for competitions, and that diluted her time for Cohen.

SC may be head strong, but in a head butting competition, my $ is on Tarasova.

I think it worked out good for both of them. Tarasova could not take her eyes off Arakawa at Skate Canada 2003, when Shizuka was doing 3/3 after 3/3 and attempting 3a in practice. Tarasova had her first lady world champ after only a few weeks with her, and Cohen got Robin who has enough $$$$ that she can afford to coach only one student and give her total devotion.

 

[nymkfan51]

Actually, I'm not that surprised by all this. I think it's unreasonable to think that Sasha and Robin (or anyone, for that matter) would continue to have exactly the same relationship as they did the first few months. There is always a sort of honeymoon period, where everything is new and wonderful. But reality settles in at some point and that's when you really see how things are.

I'm sure it's possible that Robin had different ideas on how Sasha should have spent her summer, and I'm fairly certain that Robin believed she would have some major input in choreographing Sasha's programs. To me, this was probably the biggest issue between the two. Not that they can't get along fine from here ... I think they probably will.

And who knows about what TT said. I have never heard anything negative about how Sasha trains. In fact, I have thought all along that she trained too hard the last few seasons. My feeling is to build slowly leading up to the Olympic season. Now she's injured and God knows how this will affect her Olympic chances.

 

[Linny]

coach-student

Certainly a good, healthy coach-student relationship is a two-way street. If the student's input is not considered, or the coach's advice is brushed off completely, then the results suffer.

While TT has a reputation of being dominering, she would not have produced such brilliance in her students by pulling them around like puppets on a string. Ilia is a perfect example - he was his own man when he skated.

As far as choreography and music choices go, well, I was not a fan of Sarah Hughes' music and chereography. She got the right stuff at the right time, but it didn't make my heart pound outta my chest, either. There are rare times when music, choreography, costume, performance and an indefinable quality come together for a maginificant 8 minutes on the ice. It ain't necessarily the gold medal moment.

I fully agree that Sasha's music choices have been poor. She needs to find something that brings out who Sasha is, that inspires Sasha, that isn't a skater emulating or trying to live up to the legacy of others. Nutcracker, the very season after S&Z used it to great effect, is just silly. In fact, I can't recall a single music selection of Sasha's that wasn't used on the international stage by another skater the previous season. Is Sasha standing around the other skater's practices to make her choices? Buy the lady some CDs of her own!

As far as Middle Eastern music, Amber's Marco Polo and Michelle Kwans The Feeling Begins have a similar flavor... but these skaters each had very individual interpretations. I thought they were both terrific. But I wouldn't recommend that Sasha try something like that. She needs to find her own path.

Linny

 

[diver chick]

I can't read the whole article so I am only going by the quotes posted here but I happen to agree with what I have read so far.

While not put in the nicest of ways, there is a lot of truth to what Phil has said. Sasha has notoriously underacheived - but primarily because she set the bar so high herself. She has been so vocal as to what she plans to do and how good she feels about herself etc and people just got fed-up hearing one thing and seeing another when it came to her skating.
Not many people will say that Carolina Kostner has underachieved if she doesn't win a major championship in the next couple of seasons because Carolina has not put herself up on the pedestal - others have and nobody can criticise you for not living up to other peoples expectations.
As far as the music choices go, there is so much she can chose. Sometimes I think that she is trying to prove that she can do things better than the people who have gone before her and while in itself there is nothing wrong with that she has to start doing it with her own flair and style. Whats worse is that she has that flair and style and talent and it is so obvious to anyone who watches her skate.
Carmen after people like Kat Witt and Debi Thomas, Rach after Michelle, Swan Lake after Arakawa etc.
She is a fabulous talent and I could watch her all day on the ice - but so far I have seen more of the real Sasha on practice ice than I have in competition

 

[clairecloutier]

I have no problem with Phil Hersh's article. And I certainly don't think he said anything libelous about either Sasha or Michelle. As someone said, he's a journalist, and his job is to report on what's going on. In fact, I feel like he's one of the few skating journalists who really goes a layer deeper and tries to get the real story, as opposed to just rephrasing press releases and post-event interviews. I like hearing more of the real story from him, even if it isn't necessarily flattering to the skaters involved.

The other reason I don't mind Hersh is that I feel like he's often right. And in this case I think he's certainly right about Sasha. She's obviously off course right now. She didn't train over the summer, things sound dicey with her and Robin, and now this back problem. And the music selection thing is a valid point. Sasha is such a fantastic talent, why not use more distinctive music as a way to really make her mark in the skating world? (Although I also stand by one of my previous comments on this board that Sasha, when skating well, is good enough to liven up even the dullest old music chestnut.)

 

[chuckm]

Yes, Sasha is headstrong. When TT laid down the law, Sasha rebelled, and in the end the relationship had to end because TT demands a certain level of obedience from her students, and if she doesn't get it, she can't effectively coach.

So Sasha went from taskmaster TT to touchy-feely Robin Wagner. Robin had had success with Sarah because Sarah was a dedicated, hard-working student, and they had closely shared goals and work ethics. The personal bond between Robin and Sarah helped to keep the momentum going and had its own rewards. But when Sarah reached a point where she wanted to make her own decisions, the relationship began to unravel. The result was Sarah's disappointing 2002-2003 season, where Sarah was clearly a reluctant skater.

During the initial 'honeymoon' period, Sasha and Robin seemed to mesh well, and despite a disappointment at not winning Nationals, Sasha did finally win a World medal. But where Robin was able to motivate Sarah by being a 'big sister' to her, that approach does not seem to be working with Sasha. At Campbell's, Sasha seemed to be trying to keep a distance between herself and a clingy Robin. Then this summer, Sasha took the high road, hired other choreographers, and went off to do her own thing instead of training. All the new offers that have come her way have kept Sasha off training ice, and Robin seems helpless to get Sasha back in training mode.

More and more, Sasha is beginning to remind me of Nicole Bobek, who took a similar course after winning Nationals and World bronze in 1995. Similarly, Bobek traveled around the US, speaking to youth groups, and joined a "Nutcracker Tour" during which she injured herself.

 

[Doggygirl]

The Bobek Connection...

I hadn't even thought of that until you mentioned it. YIKES I hope that's not the path Sasha is following but in some respects it ain't lookin' good. I always loved Nicole's skating and it was disappointing to think she may never have reached her full potential. I hate to think of Sasha repeating that.

By the same token, these young women are adults and entitled to make their own decisions. Respecting their freedom of choice doesn't make it easy for a fan though!

DG

 

[Ptichka]

Yes, Sasha is headstrong. When TT laid down the law, Sasha rebelled, and in the end the relationship had to end because TT demands a certain level of obedience from her students, and if she doesn't get it, she can't effectively coach.

So Sasha went from taskmaster TT to touchy-feely Robin Wagner.

Intersting. Yagudin said he liked working with TT exactly because she listened to his opinions, because he could even argue with her. She always says that she values intelligence above all othe qualities. So I think it's more like "I'll listen to everything you say, we will try to come up with a compromise, but after we have the game plan, ther is no more deviation from it".

Also interesting that many Russian coaches and skaters (most famously Mishin, but also Rodnina) consider TT to be the touch-feely one. I mean, come on, she has half her Russian students living in her house!

 

[mzheng]

For those who can't read. I found this link from SkateFan. Believe it is the same article under diff title.

This link bypass the registeration. Looking for title 'Cohen runs short of time'.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/international/

IMO, more about TT's 'work ehtics' about Sasha. Read in another board, TT commented how much pleasure she has to work with Japanese ladies. They will do exactly what coach asked them to do on ice even they have doubt in their mind. It was only after the session when they sit over having a disscussion that they will raise their doubt or how they feel. Looks like Rusian coach evaluated more of 'obedience'. That's also what RA likes with his students. "I like them the most, Hard working, obedience, polite, etc." he commented on MK and another of his favorate skater.

And about Sasha, never been a true fan of her, but I do think ppl should cut the girl some slacks. Last season she finally landed on world podium after 4.5 years strive and HARD working. It's not her fault that media started hype her back in 2000 when she won SP over MK from nowhere at her first Naional. She is only a human, she needed a little break to recharge her after 4.5 straight hard working and first time finished on world podium. Dose she deserve a little reward herself by take a summer vacation with her family?

 

[lavender]

At Campbell's, Sasha seemed to be trying to keep a distance between herself and a clingy Robin.

I had a feeling that that clingy nurturing would get to Sasha. I just don't see her like that with Robin. It seemed more natural with TT and SC for some reason imo. Anyway, I know we want to know about what's going on with these skaters but it almost feels like this type of personal stuff should stay between the coach and student even if they are not together.

I also think Sasha should be cut some slack. She did very well last year.

 

[lavender]

You mean he should pick up the phone, call Sasha and tell her what he thinks of her?

He is a journalist. He writes his opinions about some facts. That's all they are- his opinions.

Vash

Well some of what he says seems a little personal like he's affected so if he has it like that he can tell her. Oh and I'm sure he can call Sasha. He's certainly talked to Michelle over the phone.

 

[gezando]

Yes, Sasha is headstrong. When TT laid down the law, Sasha rebelled, and in the end the relationship had to end because TT demands a certain level of obedience from her students, and if she doesn't get it, she can't effectively coach.

So Sasha went from taskmaster TT to touchy-feely Robin Wagner.

So what is Nicks like, seems like he is a perfect balance of taskmaster and nuturing. Actually TT's attention to her other students, e;g. accompanying them to Russia for competitions alieniated camp Cohen at last mom Cohen. But I think it worked out good, TT weaved her magic and within a few weeks she got herself a world champ, and Sasha got Robin who is totally dedicated to her student (just one) Imagine Kirk had to share Frank with so many other students

 

[Ptichka]

Imagine Kirk had to share Frank with so many other students

Well, Frank currently has Goebel, Lysacek, Danielle Kahle, Ye Bin Mok... That's quite comparable with TT's load. They also have a similar number of high level assistants, since last year TT had 2 -- Usova and Platov.

Edited to add: I just realized you could have been joking with your statement. If so, sorry.

 

[Mathman]

I wish Hersh had been more forthcoming with names and actual quotes, instead of leaving us to guess whether he really has any inside information or not. He says:

"Some USFSA officials are so upset [with Michelle's decision to withdraw from the Grand Prix] they grumble Kwan should retire because her presence allegedly arrests the development of younger U.S. skaters."

Is this really true? Who said it, and what did they say? Are these really USFSA officials or "the usual suspects" on the Internet?

One thing that struck me funny was the wording of this sentence:

"Jerry Lace, Grand Prix coordination group member and former USFSA executive director, said he told Goldberg several times after Kwan was assigned Skate America in June the USFSA needed to know by Aug. 1 if she did not intend to skate."

Evidently Mr. Lace's "needs" were not Michelle's top priority.

Mathman