Scathing article on Sasha and MK

[Lucy25]

"It's been hectic," Cohen said. "I moved coaches [last December]. I moved training places [Simsbury to Hackensack]. The problems I had this summer ... the late start ... the pressures of a pre-Olympic year, figuring out not only what I need to do this year but 1 1/2 years down the road."

Sorry, but if she feels it is this hectic, maybe she'll think twice about taking so much time off from training to go on vacations and photo shoots and commercial shoots and Marshall's promotions. I certainly do not begrudge Sasha any of these things, but she has to learn what she can handle and what she can't.

 

[R.D.]

But the thing is, she *doesn't* tell her fans every little thing. Her journals are very superficial at best. She talks about cooking, shopping, her dress designs and her fashion shoots. Once in a while she will mention that her skating practices are going well, that she's working hard and having fun learning new things. Admittedly, her journals are a nice way to keep in touch with her fans, but they rarely give any real information. It makes me chuckle to then read her fans remark how "open and honest" she is.

When I say "little things", I mean tidbits about her life, etc.; anything that doesn't pertain to her skating. I agree with you that it is a great way to reach out to the fans, keep the fans involved, a sort of "life in the (fill-in-the-blank)" if you will. Of course she's not going to be fully accurate as to what's really going on, otherwise I think among other things people will start worrying about her. I don't believe that's the purpose of her online journal. She can't talk about everything that's going on, you know.

I think the "open and honest" remarks stem from her quotes in interviews, newspapers, etc.

I have read several conflicting articles that mention Sasha working on 3/3's. Most quote Robin as saying that they have had no time to work on them, and certainly not the quad. So I was pretty surprised to read in the one article where Sasha said she had been working hard on them before her back was injured. Based on everything else I have read, and her lack of actual training time, I tend to believe she has had no time at all to practice them.

This is another thing I find weird. She says she's worked hard on them, yet other sources say her training time was severly compromised by her busy schedule.
:scratch: This is really odd and I don't know what to think here. I guess all I can say is that if she's underprepared, she did it to herself.

 

[R.D.]

Sorry, but if she feels it is this hectic, maybe she'll think twice about taking so much time off from training to go on vacations and photo shoots and commercial shoots and Marshall's promotions. I certainly do not begrudge Sasha any of these things, but she has to learn what she can handle and what she can't.

I think she's referring to the PROBLEMS she's had, not her schedule, although I do agree with you that she must pace herself correctly. I think she's still learning how to do that (remember last season?)

 

[LBC]

I think she's referring to the PROBLEMS she's had, not her schedule, although I do agree with you that she must pace herself correctly. I think she's still learning how to do that (remember last season?)

Yes the only way to learn is to try. Things did not work out the way she planned them. She went overboard with training and competitions last year and thought she'd take it a little easier and went overboard the other way. Didn't take into account that she'd get bit by a spider, have boot problems, moving problems, and the time it would take to go elsewhere for choreography. She probably spent 2 weeks away from Robin just with Morosov and Marina and Igor. Still skated but not really training like she had done before when her coach was her choreographer. Thought she had a lot of time with that extra month off she got because COI was so short. She's young and is learning. She now knows what she shouldn't do. She's injured right now and what is done is done. No need to rehash her mistakes. Just get well and move forward.

 

[gezando]

Well, someone has to take the lead, Gez. I knew there were a lot of us secret Sasha fans who have been laying low because we were afraid of the Kwaniacs.

MM

So is there are test among you closet Sashaholics? Whether there is a "test" for that or not, we can identify one when we see one, no matter how he denies and protests " I am not a Pauline fan" Hmm.. Mathman you have your work cut out for you. Now I am a closet junk food fan, can you help?

 

[gezando]

But there were also reports that MK's back was bothering her, and that was cited by some people as a "contributing factor" to why she pulled out. Then you get the comment from her that "it always works for me". And lastly, she said during the Campbell's broadcast that "yes", she was going to be there. Doesn't sound too clear cut to me, but I really don't care. She's out of the GP, not for the first time, and why she is probably isn't relevant.

Pull out or just turn down the invite? She has back pain on and off for years. I am sure it is a contributing factor to all her training and competition schedule, but Michelle does not like to talk about her injury or health that much, that is her style. She fell on the footwork, did that aggravate the back injury? And is it possible that she did not feel the worsening immediately, ie at the time of the interview? EVen if the information seem to be difficult to sort out, I think the latest trumps all the previous.

The only skater I know of that updates her fans with "every little thing" is SC.

LOL, and practicallh everytime she updates her journal, we can count on you giving us a link thanks

MK, w/out an official site, is a more quiet, private person and always keeps people speculating about her.

People like to speculate, but I do not think it is her intention to keep people speculating.

"I'm pulling out because of (site reason here- back hurting and can't do this, etc.)", that would have been good enough.

She gave a reason, but you did not buy it or you did not think it is good enough, so it is your problem and it does not mean she is not being straight forward.

Maybe you are used to reading Sasha Cohen updates, and you get into all the minute details of what she eats, when she sneezes, you should be happy about Sasha's effort of updating you.

 

[R.D.]

Pull out or just turn down the invite? She has back pain on and off for years. I am sure it is a contributing factor to all her training and competition schedule, but Michelle does not like to talk about her injury or health that much, that is her style. She fell on the footwork, did that aggravate the back injury? And is it possible that she did not feel the worsening immediately, ie at the time of the interview? EVen if the information seem to be difficult to sort out, I think the latest trumps all the previous.

It's all the same to me. "Turn down the invite" IS pulling out. There is nothing wrong with her not wanting to discuss her injury or health, but, for goodness sake all I'm saying is that: All she had to say was that she had a back injury (if indeed she does) or other legit reason (official statement) for backing out. That's all! I'm talking one or two sentences here, not a whole paragraph on her condition! Get the picture already! And this is a moot point now, anyway.

LOL, and practicallh everytime she updates her journal, we can count on you giving us a link thanks

If you were paying attention, you'd see that it was another poster who started those (SC update) threads. I still don't see what the deal here is. You can keep on fantasizing or whatnot about who is a fan of who, but it doesn't change reality. Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of both Kwan and Cohen. I wish someone (from the US or elsewhere) would come along and beat them both. (Arakawa is a good start).

People like to speculate, but I do not think it is her intention to keep people speculating.

Well obviously not. I never said that. In fact, I said I thought it was funny why everyone MUST know what she's doing or what's on her mind.

She gave a reason, but you did not buy it or you did not think it is good enough, so it is your problem not hersm and it does not mean she is not being straight forward.

This has come to difference of opinion here. You think she gave a clear reason, I don't. End of story.

Maybe you are used to reading Sasha Cohen updates, and you get into all the minute details of what she eats, when she sneezes, but Michelle has a different style. You should be happy about Sasha's effort of updating you.

I do read her updates from time to time, and I'm not the only one :sheesh:. No, I am NOT used to her "all the minute details". And why are you comparing that to Michelle? It doesn't make sense. They are both very different people with different styles. And I don't get your last comment, so I'll just ignore it.

 

[gezando]

And why are you comparing that to Michelle? It doesn't make sense. They are both very different people with different styles. And I don't get your last comment, so I'll just ignore it.

As you are writing I have deleted the Michelle reference.

If you are sick of Michelle and Sasha, hm.. anyone but Sasha and Michelle to win nationals?

 

[R.D.]

If you are sick of Michelle and Sasha, hm.. anyone but Sasha and Michelle to win nationals?

I sure hope so but I'm afraid that if either one is able to go, then Kwan will win yet AGAIN (I'm counting Cohen out this time).

 

[Mathman]

I agree with Red Dog that Michelle gave as brief an explanation as possible of all the factors that led to her decision, and how she weighed them. I also agree with Gezando that this is neither good nor bad, neither to be praised or criticized, it's just Michelle's style.

About predictions for U.S. Nationals, again I agree with Red Dog. Whatever we might wish, I just don't see anyone else, besides Michelle and Sasha, who are ready to step up this year.

But I wouldn't count Sasha out yet. The season has just begun.

Mathman

 

[bronxgirl]

I think that none of us besides the skaters and their physicians know the tue severity of any given injury, and whether they can skate through it or should skate through it. (The two don't always match up - often to the longterm detriment of a skater)

 

[R.D.]

But I wouldn't count Sasha out yet. The season has just begun.

I think with all that's happening to her, and now this injury, it's gonna be awfully tough for her to get back in fighting shape in a couple of months. That's why I think she doesn't stand a chance (assuming Kwan will be there). OK, maybe she might but I think Kwan would have to have a major mistake (in both programs) in order to open the door for her. And even then, would she take advantage of it?

I think that none of us besides the skaters and their physicians know the tue severity of any given injury, and whether they can skate through it or should skate through it. (The two don't always match up - often to the longterm detriment of a skater)

I agree with you here- usually the it's the skater that will wish to skate as soon as possible, even through their injury if they can. The doctors are the ones that would have to talk them out of it (if it's severe enough).

ETA: Re. MK's decision, there is nothing WRONG with what she did; IIRC someone wrote the USFSA and they responded that both MK and SC pulled out in a timely manner (didn't break any rules). It would just have been nice (for the fans and officials and other skaters) for her to give a clear, concise reason to why she pulled out. She didn't do that, which is fine, I suppose (as some posters like to say, "she doesn't owe anyone anything"). It's just "her style" of doing things.

 

[mzheng]

I agree with you here- usually the it's the skater that will wish to skate as soon as possible, even through their injury if they can. The doctors are the ones that would have to talk them out of it (if it's severe enough).

I agree to certain extend that usually it's teh skater, who never reached to the top or hasn't been there that long, that will wish to skate as soon as possible, even through their injury if they can.

Look at Evan, he's injured, but he said he felt this just might be his break season so he is going to skate through it, no matter the injury.

As for Michelle, she said herself last season very clearly she knows "the ones never being to the top are the most hungry ones". My sense of understatement is the most hungry ones do WHATEVER (injuries, destroy their body) takes to reach the top. She is not the one who would take this risk. She's been proved again and again she can reach the top and remains near the top without enduring majore injury through the years.

I agree with what gezando has said. Kwan has herwon style to deal with things like this. Basically she is a very private person. She kept her on ice life and personal life seperately. I really respect her for that. And IMO, that's the way it should be.

 

[gezando]

ETA: Re. MK's decision, there is nothing WRONG with what she did; IIRC someone wrote the USFSA and they responded that both MK and SC pulled out in a timely manner (didn't break any rules). It would just have been nice (for the fans and officials and other skaters) for her to give a clear, concise reason to why she pulled out. She didn't do that, which is fine, I suppose (as some posters like to say, "she doesn't owe anyone anything"). It's just "her style" of doing things.

Nice for the fans, well you are not a fan, you are not even a figure skating fan (you said that many times) so you are just feeling Michelle fans' pain? Don't, I already said, true fans understand. Nice for officials, that is debateable, it m ay make their scheduling a little easier, but Michelle has been a trooper for usfsa for years, over a decade, so she owes them nothing. Nice for other skaters? Not at all Alissa was called with relatively short notice for Skate America, what a nice opportunity for her, I doubt she cares that much, Michelle gave an answer, and perhaps that is already good enough for the other skaters.

I think it is bit early for Cohen fan to play down the expectation.

 

[R.D.]

Nice for the fans, well you are not a fan, you are not even a figure skating fan (you said that many times) so you are just feeling Michelle fans' pain? Don't, I already said, true fans understand.

Let's just say for the record that I am what you may call a "casual fan". I'm not a fan to the degree that many other posters on this board are, but I care enough to read and post here. One day however, I will totally lose interest and leave the "skating world" altogether.

I don't know what you mean by "feeling Michelle fans' pain". I assume the pain of MK fans is not being able to see her skate more, and I can't exactly say I feel that way

"True fans understand"? Are you trying to say here that those who didn't understand Michelle's response aren't true fans? That's ridiculous IMO!

Nice for other skaters? Well Alissa was called with relatively short notice for Skate America, what a nice opportunity for her, I seriously doubted she care that much about a concise 2 sentence answer. Michelle gave an answer, and perhaps that is already good enough for the other skaters.

It was a great opportunity for Alissa. In fact before this competition I've never even heard of her before. Maybe you're right that SHE wouldn't care much about an explanation, hence why I said that it was irrelevant right now why she (MK) pulled out. By now you should know where I stand on that issue.

 

[lavender]

Off topic

Red Dog weren't you a Michelle fan? Just kind of confused and curious.

 

[Fossi]

I always thought RedDog was a Tara fan turned Sasha fan? But not a Sarah fan. Since we're guessing, I'd say he isn't a Kwan fan.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

Hersh is more critical of Cohen:

"Meanwhile, the likes of Naomi Nari Nam, Ann Patrice McDonough, Sydne Vogel and Jennifer Kirk all have flashed and fizzled before they challenged Kwan.

"Even Cohen, 20 next Tuesday, ranks as an underachiever. The defining performance of her career occurred 4 1/2 years ago and lasted less than three minutes_the short program at 2000 nationals. She frittered away chances to win the 2004 nationals and worlds and has yet to do a clean final free skate in a real competition.

"The artistic brilliance Cohen showed in 2000 has been dulled by her consistent choice of music overused in figure skating. Her current programs are set to two Russian chestnuts_"Dark Eyes" and "Nutcracker." If Cohen were Leonardo da Vinci, she would have regressed from the student who outshone his masters to painting by numbers rather than boldly becoming the genius of "The Last Supper" and the "Mona Lisa.""

Ouch!
Mathman

Ouch, indeed, but true. Sasha Cohen has been a perpetual wannabee for five years now - a skater with a great amount of potential but one who consistently misses her jumps and/or makes other costly errors in her long programs that cost her titles. Had Cohen skated cleanly, she might have won a medal at the 2002 Olympics - probably bronze - which would have changed the outcome of that podium, bigtime - as well as at least one or two US titles and this year's World championship. IMHO, how many more years can the media trump Sasha as the "Ice Princess", etc., when she fails to deliver the goods?

I wish Sasha the best of success, but I believe she is reaching a crossroads in her competitive career. It's soon going to be a case of "now or never", IMHO.

 

[Mathman]

Skatefan, I think most observers would agree that Sasha has not made the most of all of her opportunities. But I still think that Hersh is exaggerating, and rather ridiculously so, when he implies that Sasha has not had a decent performance in the last four years. On the contrary, she has skated brilliantly time and again -- while also, to be sure, suffering some untimely disasters.

Also, to place Sasha's disappointments at the door of unimaginative choices of music seems equally silly to me. Sasha missed the Olympic podium in 2002, and the world podia in 2002 and 2003, because she fell on her jumps, not because she skated to overly familiar music.

JMO.

Mathman

 

[cheekers85]

I'm not really getting into the injury explanations back and forth here.I don' t really care too much either way to argue it for any of the skaters.
But just to respond to the thing said about Sasha at the Olympics. (I kind of agree on everything else about her missed oppertunities.) But two things. One I think she was kinda expected to come in and instantly win. She probally didn't have a legitimate shot at that (minus mistakes by others) until 2002 IMO. At which case she was then a real top contender but not performer. Previously I think no way. From that point on her inconsistencies or less then the absolute best when she needed it to be there, shot her in the foot time and again.
But she's a high level performer for any other country, but the US though....but that is way besides the point it's totally a "fight or war" over here as Michelle would say....and Michelle putting it out there time and again at (most) nationals and worlds has made her look even more so like she was underperforming. I think the most of the critism is valid but she is suffering by comparison more so then probally someone normall would. Just my opinion though.
Anyway, that was off topic.
At the 2002 Olympics I totally disagree on her choking. I contend she would not have medaled even if she skated cleanly *no matter what* considering what Sarah was planning in the long program. A Sarah clean had a medal locked up in the long, any color. Despite appearances she had nothing to lose there. (unless she could try to even the field in the LP with something of her own)
But everywhere else, those missed oppertunities. She needed
to step up and has not. I guess it makes you appreciate skaters who are and
were really mentally tough. I really hope she starts doing what she is capable of soon. I like her and I hate when anyone isn't able to measure up to the challenge something they are trying to accomplish out of pure mental error. I don't care really what anyone is doing with their private time.