Scott Moir says its a piss off

[dwiggin3]

Scott would still have way more opportunities to see D/W skate up close than any fan. In fact, he was sitting right in the K&C staring very intently at D/W as they did their FD in the GPF.

I believe what Scott is complaining about is that on SOME of the PCS, D/W exceeded or tied V/M. In this particular FD, V/M actually got a higher mark in skating skills than D/W. In transition and performance, however, D/W exceeded V/M on both scores. In choreography and interpretation/timing, D/W tied V/M. I am guessing here, but perhaps Scott looked at those differences and disagreed. To Scott, and perhaps to many others as well, "Funny Face" is a much more theatrical and performance orientated piece, with way more character moments. And he's aghast that such obvious pandering is tied or marked below that of D/W far less theatrical program. "What do you mean our performance and interpretation isn't as good as Davis and White? We practically recreated the movie in front of you mooks!" *What I imagine Scott is saying in his head. What Scott is missing is that there are many other ways to display artistry, to realize music as movement, to create character out of dance. It may behoove him to reread the program component scoring guidelines for ice dancing as well. In each of those scores, there are far more criteria involved than obvious miming.

You make a valid point - excellent.

I have gone back and forth between D/W and V/M. One season, I will really dislike what one team does and absolutely love what the others do. The next year, it's the other way around. Keep mind mind, what I dislike are the programs and the way they do/do not show off a teams best assist - not the skaters. This year, I prefer V/M both in the SD and FD. I'm not a fan of D/W SD but realize that there FD is perhaps, by far, the very best program created for them and showcases EVERY SINGLE good thing about their skating.

Based on the way the teams have skated thus far (excluding the SD where I feel the fall was just a fluke), I have V/M on top over D/W - but respect and understand why others would say the opposite. This is just my preference.

For me, D/W have found their "signature" program. This is the program that for me, is the best vehicle to showcase all their strengths and minimizes their weeknesses. As a result, just about everything in the program is spot-on. V/M on the other hand, have had some great programs but have yet to find their equivalent - the best vehicle to display everything that is great about their skating while minimizes what isn't. It will come though.

 

[mskater93]

Interesting points. But if that is the case, how is it that Scott has not seen or noticed these improvements? You would think that they would have been clued in since they practice at the same rink. It's not that like V/M were never at the rink while Tessa was injured. Or you think that their coaches would have said something.

By SEEN I meant that Scott was choosing to see what he wanted to see (that D/W were still behind) because that is his EXPECTATION. I believe someone else picked up on what I meant by that with the tennis analogy and being the dominant competitor. His perception colored his reality (D/W still aren't as good as WE are) and he then made the backhanded comment about their rivals in his comments because of his reality.

 

[claphappy]

While we've all talked about how Scott feels, I wonder how Tessa really feels? While they are a team, does Scott speak for Tessa? Does Tessa agree with Scott, the delivery method ect. Any insight on Tessa?

Lol! That was my thought too! If Miss Virtue is pissed with anyone, I have feeling it's Scott.

 

[Mrs. P]

The fact that there can ALSO be a charming moment such as the one I watched during the practice session in Quebec when the 3 Canton teams shared ice and they all did the tap section of the Shibutani's Chatanooga Choo Choo to the delight of everyone there, speaks to the chemistry that must exist betwen all of them. Probably having the youngsters (Shibutanis) there actually helps keep them (Virtue, Moir, Davis, White) on their toes. Charlie White has said as much in interviews. "We can't just mail it in" It also must help diffuse the focus on just being about "us vs. them" as the idea of having a concentrated melting pot of excellence can help keep everyone ambitious and humble at the same time.

Anyone who is interested, here's a photo of that moment: http://skatingmagazineblog.com/2011/12/10/canton-fun-and-games-in-quebec-city/
And a write up about it: http://skatingmagazineblog.com/2011/12/10/canton-fun-and-games-in-quebec-city/

And here's something from Scott and Tessa:

“It’s always so serious,” he said. “The reality is we have fun at home and [we wanted] to have fun here, maybe get them to loosen up a little bit at their first Grand Prix Final.”

“We’ve been talking about this with Meryl and Charlie for a really long time,” Virtue added. “And oddly enough we still don’t know the steps exactly. We tried our best. It’s Maia and Alex’s first go at the Grand Prix Final and there can be a lot of nerves, a lot of pressure and anything we can do to get a laugh.”

I know some would enjoy the end of the "Canton, peace and harmony" bit, but I think it's sort of endearing that D/W and V/M worked together to help their teammates feel more at ease.

 

[chuckm]

While we've all talked about how Scott feels, I wonder how Tessa really feels? While they are a team, does Scott speak for Tessa? Does Tessa agree with Scott, the delivery method ect. Any insight on Tessa?

We know Scott thinks V/M are the most artistic skaters of the last five years. But it was Tessa who said they would look at their programs and see where they could improve. Seems to me there's a bit of a disconnect there. Scott seems to feel everything they're doing is top-notch and therefore they should be rated #1, while Tessa is the one with the motivation to improve.

 

[jcoates]

A good point Mrs. P. But it is also true, as in any situation, that a mix of complicated emotions can exist, especially in a high stakes training atmosphere. They can be genuine friends and yet remain fierce rivals who even feel somewhat threatened by each other in the heat of competition. Not to beat a dead horse, but back to my Evert/Navratilova example, Chris and Martina spent the better part of 20 years trying to crush each other. Yet they remained extremely close friends, despite many bumps in the road. They even went on double dates together before Martina came out. (Chris btw one of the first to publicly support Martina when that happened despite being chief rivals.) Nevertheless, the residue of that competitive tension remain under the surface as some of their comments about each other suggest. Still, now after nearly forty years, they acknowledge that the other is really the only person in the world with whom they can truly share a feeling of common experience due to the longstanding and isolating nature of their rivalry. (FYI for more insight check out this fabulous documentary. http://30for30.espn.com/film/unmatched.html ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf3L3bjFT-o ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXz-KvPp_ao&feature=relmfu) McEnroe and Borg have said much the same thing about each other and their friendship has also deepened over the years. Believe me, I'm not rooting for an end to the Canton dynamic. I like it.

By the way if anyone thinks D/W and V/M fans are vicious to each other, check out a vid of Chris and Martina playing each other on youtube. The angry jibes among fans are still going on over 20 years later in the comments section. That was one INTENSE rivalry among players and fans alike.

ETA: ChuckM, Tessa has always been the one to express more self-doubt/examination thank Scott. They discussed this in interviews. He sometimes has to convince her of how good she actually is. So in that regard her comments and goals are not a surprise.

 

[Serious Business]

Scott is a bit of a bro. You can tell by the way he would sometimes high five Tessa after a performance. And the occasional celebratory grunts. And the hearty back claps. Scott really treats ice dancing like hockey. It's usually charming in its own idiosyncratic and testosterony way. And really, I have no problem with a skater condemning the judging or bragging about being the best, especially when I agree with them. I just wish Scott didn't do it in defense of what I find to be a mawkish program, and I especially wish he didn't do it at the expense of a training partner that he must spend quite a bit of time with. Charlie White seems quite shy and soft-spoken to me. I can just see Scott kvetching about the judging and how much better he was than that other team all the way back to the hotel while Charlie sits there, sad and quiet.

 

[chuckm]

Charlie may sit there quietly, but I doubt he is sad after having won their third straight GPF in a row.

 

[Mrs. P]

Charlie may sit there quietly, but I doubt he is sad after having won their third straight GPF in a row.

I think SB is talking about Charlie when he loses to his training mates.

 

[Serious Business]

Charlie may sit there quietly, but I doubt he is sad after having won their third straight GPF in a row.

He might still be sad if a guy he trains with and may even be friendly with loudly denigrates that achievement.

 

[waltzjump]

Hi, I am Italian and I lurke this board, where I've learnt a lot about skating.
Time to break the ice!

What do I think about the two dances?
Funny Face is very well conceived. Beautiful tap dance; the mood of the movie well translated into the ice.
Fledermaus Ouverture is a classic masterpiece. Vienna Ballet on ice. I must admit I am a waltz uber: nothing beats an excellent waltz. I give a large edge to Davis and White with their Free Dance.
Needless to talk about the skills involved in both dances.

About the performances and the scoring.
Virtue/Moir's, although excellent, was obviously flawed; Davis/White were clean. Having the two teams equal quality, I was glad the cleanest performance won in PCS and overall. I wish the same happened in men's event.

How do I understand Scott's complaints?
I use to interpretate people's statements the way they make more sense; especially from smart people.
So, in 2006 “we are disappointed we could not make it to Olympics” I read it “shame, it was close” not “we deserved it better”.
Same way, in 2011 “it was a winning performance” obviously refers to Free Dance only. Just because otherwise it would be plain silly.

Of course Scott is “pissed”. He must be angry with himself for his fall (his fault: running too fast he went off-track and collided), and needed to vent his disappointment. He was wrong, using bad words and picking the judges as target; but let us realize when a 24-years old just pours out.
Everybody remembers how much stress he and Tessa endured because of Tessa's threatening injury; no wonder if he is quite burnt out by stress.

Please tell me how poor is my English!
I'm used to scientific English, but to everyday's language not as much.

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for posting! Your English is excellent.

 

[Mrs. P]

Hi, I am Italian and I lurke this board, where I've learnt a lot about skating.
Time to break the ice!

What do I think about the two dances?
Funny Face is very well conceived. Beautiful tap dance; the mood of the movie well translated into the ice.
Fledermaus Ouverture is a classic masterpiece. Vienna Ballet on ice. I must admit I am a waltz uber: nothing beats an excellent waltz. I give a large edge to Davis and White with their Free Dance.
Needless to talk about the skills involved in both dances.

About the performances and the scoring.
Virtue/Moir's, although excellent, was obviously flawed; Davis/White were clean. Having the two teams equal quality, I was glad the cleanest performance won in PCS and overall. I wish the same happened in men's event.

How do I understand Scott's complaints?
I use to interpretate people's statements the way they make more sense; especially from smart people.
So, in 2006 “we are disappointed we could not make it to Olympics” I read it “shame, it was close” not “we deserved it better”.
Same way, in 2011 “it was a winning performance” obviously refers to Free Dance only. Just because otherwise it would be plain silly.

Of course Scott is “pissed”. He must be angry with himself for his fall (his fault: running too fast he went off-track and collided), and needed to vent his disappointment. He was wrong, using bad words and picking the judges as target; but let us realize when a 24-years old just pours out.
Everybody remembers how much stress he and Tessa endured because of Tessa's threatening injury; no wonder if he is quite burnt out by stress.

Please tell me how poor is my English!
I'm used to scientific English, but to everyday's language not as much.

Great post, waltzjump! :thumbsup:

Your English is fine and actually you illustrated your points more thoughtfully than some who actually do speak English as their first language!

 

[Rachmaninoff]

Lol! That was my thought too! If Miss Virtue is pissed with anyone, I have feeling it's Scott.

I wonder what she's thinking too. The DiManno article said Tessa's "lovely green eyes widened to saucer size" when Scott made his comment.

We know Scott thinks V/M are the most artistic skaters of the last five years. But it was Tessa who said they would look at their programs and see where they could improve. Seems to me there's a bit of a disconnect there. Scott seems to feel everything they're doing is top-notch and therefore they should be rated #1, while Tessa is the one with the motivation to improve.

In that 'orange team interview' posted earlier in the thread, they both said their tendency is to look at where they can improve when asked whether they've ever felt they were judged unfairly. So hopefully Scott will channel plenty of this into motivation to improve as well once he's digested it a bit. As jcoates and others have pointed out, he likely hadn't fully acknowledged the extent to which D/W have closed the gap between them, and that can be a shock. I can see how he may have been dismissing the signs: yes, D/W beat us at worlds, but we were coming back after having to miss the season, we hadn't been training and competing, we'll be back on top next season. Yes, D/W beat us in the short program, but we had a fall and didn't skate our best, once we really have a great skate of course we'll win again, because we're the best artistic team in the world... Skating a really great program, bringing the audience to their feet as they've done before, and still being beaten (and in PCS at that), would then be like a bucket of cold water.

So hopefully they will both channel that frustrated energy into making improvements now that they've had that reality check. Being angry at the judging initially is understandable, but continually stewing about it and maintaining the belief they were robbed isn't going to help their motivation, their image, or their peace of mind.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

While we've all talked about how Scott feels, I wonder how Tessa really feels? While they are a team, does Scott speak for Tessa? Does Tessa agree with Scott, the delivery method ect. Any insight on Tessa?

Great question.

a) Publically, Scott tends to be the voice of the team. He dominates interviews.

b) There are times, of course, when Tessa disagrees, and it's generally in a moment when Scott's more bluster. For example, after 4CC 2009 (Tessa's first international competition post-injury), when V/M were asked if they were concerned they'd miss the entire season, Scott said no, Tessa said yes. I do find that Tessa's quick to be more introspective than Scott in general - she plays her cards very tight to the chest, so to speak.

 

[prettykeys]

1. I think people would have applauded Daisuke if he said that, actually. There's what, 25 pages of hate in the Men's LP thread. Daisuke is a god for Golden Skate (and I can see why - he's awesome) and Chan is the current enfant terrible who gets called a spoiled brat. Skate Canada gets compared to the mafia. If Takahashi had said the exact same thing, people would be praising him for speaking out against corruption, for having the courage for taking on the Chan-club machine. I have no doubt about that, and really, the level of hypocrisy there would be a piss-off if it weren't amusing.

What the...? Paranoid much? Or is that jealousy? Please...if Takahashi ever spoke Moirese I'd be extremely disappointed in him, too. But that's why he is so adored, because not only is he awesome, but he is so humble that he is self-depreciating at times.

And I'm very tired of the overuse of the term "bashing". Sometimes people are discussing issues that are close to the heart, not discussing them just for the sake of attacking people/skaters. Let's try not to be so butthurt and dramatic.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

What the...? Paranoid much? Or is that jealousy? Please...if Takahashi ever spoke Moirese I'd be extremely disappointed in him, too. But that's why he is so adored, because not only is he awesome, but he is so humble that he is self-depreciating at times.

And I'm very tired of the overuse of the term "bashing". Sometimes people are discussing issues that are close to the heart, not discussing them just for the sake of attacking people/skaters. Let's try not to be so butthurt and dramatic.

I'm not saying you would be more or less disappointed. I'm saying that Takahashi, confirming the opinion of many, would be praised for doing so. Admittedly, he's adored for his general attitude. I love Takakashi, but given the extent of comments that have been made in the past about Chan, I'd hardly say I'm being paranoid. I'll pm you if want a fuller opinion.

 

[prettykeys]

I'm not saying you would be more or less disappointed. I'm saying that Takahashi, confirming the opinion of many, would be praised for doing so. Admittedly, he's adored for his general attitude. I love Takakashi, but given the extent of comments that have been made in the past about Chan, I'd hardly say I'm being paranoid. I'll pm you if want a fuller opinion.

I am emphasizing that while there are posts that villify Chan (seen them myself, I'm not blind), it is wrong to say that "people would" (in the general) righteously back Takahashi by some unfair double standard. There are, after all, also those who make Chan out to be some kind of hero, with the villains being the skating fans that criticize him, or event outcomes, or the judging system. Can't there be some middle ground? Chan never crossed any line that I drew in my sand, but Moir did. Put those words in YuNa's mouth and I'd be disappointed, too. I think that's fair.

 

[Olympia]

Hi, I am Italian and I lurke this board, where I've learnt a lot about skating.
Time to break the ice!

What do I think about the two dances?
Funny Face is very well conceived. Beautiful tap dance; the mood of the movie well translated into the ice.
Fledermaus Ouverture is a classic masterpiece. Vienna Ballet on ice. I must admit I am a waltz uber: nothing beats an excellent waltz. I give a large edge to Davis and White with their Free Dance.
Needless to talk about the skills involved in both dances.

About the performances and the scoring.
Virtue/Moir's, although excellent, was obviously flawed; Davis/White were clean. Having the two teams equal quality, I was glad the cleanest performance won in PCS and overall. I wish the same happened in men's event.

Please tell me how poor is my English!
I'm used to scientific English, but to everyday's language not as much.

Welcome, Waltzjump! Your English is impressive. I can't imagine posting anything this well thought out and finely expressed in French, which I studied for years.

And thanks for your insights. You bring up some excellent points, about both the skating programs and Scott's motivations for speaking like that.

Like you, I felt that Meryl and Charlie's program evoked the golden age of Vienna. It wasn't only the music, which is just about the most lilting opera overture ever composed. It was the flourishes Charlie and Meryl added to their skating, the perfect arm movements, the shifts in balance. Couldn't you just imagine that they were dancing in the Sacher Hotel or even Schonbrunn Palace? I'm not savvy enough to analyze all the moves and decide which of the two couples deserved the most points for their efforts. I just know that this program is a dazzling confection. I share your love of waltzes, and this may be influencing my reaction. But I think I'd love this program no matter what.

I hope we read many more posts from you! If you're interested in practicing your everyday language, a great forum like this is the perfect place for it. There's so much to talk about and to learn. Welcome!

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Agree to disagree, here. I don't think you're being unfair, though. And I believe that Scott did cross a line, regardless of the fact that I wanted him to cross said line.