Senior ladies competition

[skatinginbc]

If Phaneuf nails her programs, she IS among the top 10 in the world. Lacoste on the other hand, I'm not so sure.

If Phaneuf nails her programs, she might even get onto the World podium. If Amelie skates clean, it still takes some luck for her to get into the top 10. They both have had poor international showings so far and their performances at the national, well, were about equal (One won the short and the other the long). None of them are a secure bet. If you must gamble, who are you going to choose? Well, my mathematical mind tells me that sending Phaneuf would yield a higher expected value.

 

[Jammers]

Lets face it Amelie didn't exactly set the world on fire during the GP season. Maybe if she hadn't finished near or at the bottom of her two events they might have already decided to send her to Worlds.

 

[Violet Bliss]

SC has their job to decide on Canada's representation based on many considerations, not least of which is who will bring back 2 spots for next year's Worlds.

Me, I like what I saw in Phaneuf, who looked the best since Worlds 2010. I think she is turning around though it's been only six weeks when she made the important coaching and living changes. She won the Free Skate but lost on the most unfortunate and fatal mistake of falling on the first jump of the combo in the SP. Nevertheless, she looked more self assured and her performances were mature and elegant, with attitude. She had the look of and skated like a champion even if she didn't jump like one. I read very good indications of the direction she's progressing. Kudos to Lacoste who proved determination brings results one desires. She is athletic and powerful but workmanlike, probably not going to win international judges over. I sort of like the idea of a rematch at 4CC, a major international event before Worlds, which would show the progress each is making towards the end-of-season showdown. The decision is a very important one so it's worth some more dueling from the contestants to prove their worth in front of the international judges. May they both bring their best.

 

[skatinginbc]

I just browsed through the Protocols: Cynthia completed three types of triples (3Lz, 3Lo, and 3T) whereas Amelie only two (3Lo and 3S). Cynthia received level 1 or 2 for her spins and step sequence (there is room for improvement in a short period of time) whereas Amelie received level 3 or 4 (pretty much maxed out).

 

[lise]

PJ Kwong told me the decision will be revealed today but that Mike Slipchuk had set protocols were set since 1994. That could be an indication that they will send Amelie, but they did change the protocols in 2003 when Cynthia was sent to Junior Worlds and they sent Jen Robinson and Joannie Rochette to Worlds instead.

In this case, I completely agree with SkateFiguring. Cynthia lost by 2 points; it was not a runaway victory in any sense of the word. Cynthia's spins are usually higher in value so getting the points there, she's right there. Amelie has maxed out and although I'm happy she won her first title, i simply don't think she's capable of getting us 2 spots at this time. I'm not putting down her skating, but to me, she does not have the full package. Send her and we will only have 1 spot.

i'm only hoping that SC manages to convince Joannie to come back to compete next season; we need her.

 

[Violet Bliss]

IF Cynthia gets sent to Worlds this year, it only makes up for when she didn't go when she won the Canadian title the first time. She set a precedent of the National Champion not going to Worlds herself

 

[Kypma]

IF Cynthia gets sent to Worlds this year, it only makes up for when she didn't go when she won the Canadian title the first time. She set a precedent of the National Champion not going to Worlds herself

But wasn't it her team that year that decided she wasn't ready for worlds at that point in her development? Kind of like Benoît Lavoie was quoted as saying pertaining to if Kaetlyn Osmond won the title (whether she would be offered the spot to worlds).

 

[skatinginbc]

Mike Slipchuk had said protocols were set since 1994. That could be an indication that they will send Amelie.

Hm, so there is a protocol. Then I change my mind. Amelie should go.

IF Cynthia gets sent to Worlds this year, it only makes up for when she didn't go when she won the Canadian title the first time. She set a precedent of the National Champion not going to Worlds herself

But I thought she was consulted first and she volunteered to go the Junior Worlds instead. Unless Amelie volunteers to opt out, it would be unfair to force her.

Amelie should go. Amelie should go.

 

[lise]

However, I've been told that they have changed a few things because of 1996 when Jen Robinson beat Josee. Josee, easily could have made the podium, but we sent Jen who was 21st or 18th.

It's certainly a tough decision to make, but what if this was a competition that Joannie competed it and bombed? Would they still send the National champion or would they send in the one who had the record of getting the top result?

In this case, they are looking at protocols, how the ladies skated in general and see that without the lutz or the flip, Amelie is not going anywhere. Cynthia has all jumps back except for the the flip in addition to having a top 5 result at Worlds. That has to be a huge consideration. Worlds were pushed back 1 full month last year; so that probably impacted the bad performances we did see.

 

[museksk8r]

However, I've been told that they have changed a few things because of 1996 when Jen Robinson beat Josee. Josee, easily could have made the podium, but we sent Jen who was 21st or 18th.

It's certainly a tough decision to make, but what if this was a competition that Joannie competed it and bombed? Would they still send the National champion or would they send in the one who had the record of getting the top result?

In this case, they are looking at protocols, how the ladies skated in general and see that without the lutz or the flip, Amelie is not going anywhere. Cynthia has all jumps back except for the the flip in addition to having a top 5 result at Worlds. That has to be a huge consideration. Worlds were pushed back 1 full month last year; so that probably impacted the bad performances we did see.

Only in her wildest dreams is Phaneuf even in the same breath as Rochette and Chouinard. Phaneuf has not even medaled on the GP circuit since 2004, 7 seasons ago. Lacoste medaled on the GP just last season when she beat Cynthia to take bronze at Skate Canada. Honestly, I don't see either Amelie or Cynthia making the podium at Worlds, even with their best skates. They are at the same inconsistent, unreliable level. One (Lacoste) just happened to keep better track of her spin and footwork levels in both segments of this competition and it paid dividends for her.

 

[skatinginbc]

what if this was a competition that Joannie competed it and bombed?

Then they still should send Amelie if that is what the rule book or protocol prescribes. Yes, it is stupid but it is the rule that is stupid and needs a change. You cannot change the rule now after seeing who won. It would be extremely unfair and disrespectful to the champion. Now here is my question: Does Skate Canada have a clear set of rules regarding the selection process like Japan has?

 

[lise]

The rule is not set in stone; the committee makes the final selection.

 

[tulosai]

Only in her wildest dreams is Phaneuf even in the same breath as Rochette and Chouinard. Phaneuf has not even medaled on the GP circuit since 2004, 7 seasons ago. Lacoste medaled on the GP just last season when she beat Cynthia to take bronze at Skate Canada. Honestly, I don't see either Amelie or Cynthia making the podium at Worlds, even with their best skates. They are at the same inconsistent, unreliable level. One (Lacoste) just happened to keep better track of her spin and footwork levels in both segments of this competition and it paid dividends for her.

Agree 100%. I hope they will send Amelie. While others do have a point that Phaneuf would have beaten her if she'd gotten higher levels on footwork and spins (and while I admit she is capable of doing so) a competitor of her age and experience should NOT be losing levels (and certainly should not be getting level 1's and 2's) at a competition of this imporance. If it were one spin that would be a different thing but it was multiple elements. To me that it is so easy to fix kind of makes it worse.

Unfortunately I do agree also that Phaneuf is probably the 'best hope' of a top 10 finish, but she is TERRIBLY inconsistent and has had many prior chances to make an impact at worlds. I think Amelie should be given her chance.

 

[skatinginbc]

The rule is not set in stone; the committee makes the final selection.

So it is ambiguous enough that a skater would equate winning the National with earning the spot? If so, send Amelie, or it would be a great insult to her efforts and hard work. And Skate Canada should make a clear rule for the future so that new national champions will expect to have another contest (i.e., 4CC) if they fail to satisfy the specified criterion.

 

[tulosai]

So it is ambiguous enough that a skater would equate winning the National with earning the spot? If so, send Amelie, or it would be a great insult to her efforts and hard work. And Skate Canada should make a clear rule for the future so that new national champions will expect to have another contest (i.e., 4CC) if they fail to satisfy the specified criterion.

I mean these are all nice in theory (I DO think there are always advantages to clearer rules) but I think there are times when discretion is neccessary and that overall it is ok for the federation to retain that discretion. As someone posited before, what if it was Joannie who just totally bombed? I DO NOT mean Phaneuf is in the same league or that this is neccessarily a case where discretion should be used, but to me it's obvious that if it was Joannie discretion would be neccessary as she'd be the obvious choice to earn two spots. Or what if a skater who was clearly the best (again, let's pretend Joannie is still competing) is injured or falls ill right before the competition but can recover before Worlds? It would be in Canada's best interest to be able to send that person.

You could say 'well okay then, make a rule where it says if a person who has achieved at least X much is sick or injured discretion can be used' or 'if a person who has achieved X much has a really bad day discretion can be used' but that ignores the fact that skating is neccessarily relative (for instance, what if Canada had both Joannie and someone else about as good as Joannie and Joannie was injured or fell apart? There are lots of nuanes here that I think discretion is the best way to account for.

It does make it less certain for skaters, but I think overall that is just the breaks.

 

[pangtongfan]

Only in her wildest dreams is Phaneuf even in the same breath as Rochette and Chouinard. Phaneuf has not even medaled on the GP circuit since 2004, 7 seasons ago. Lacoste medaled on the GP just last season when she beat Cynthia to take bronze at Skate Canada. Honestly, I don't see either Amelie or Cynthia making the podium at Worlds, even with their best skates. They are at the same inconsistent, unreliable level. One (Lacoste) just happened to keep better track of her spin and footwork levels in both segments of this competition and it paid dividends for her.

We already know Cynthia cant medal at Worlds even at her best since she skated her best at the 2010 Worlds, miracelously doing a 7 triple long program which nobody ever probably believed they would see from her, and failed to medal in a major splatfest where Lepisto bombed her long program and still won bronze, and Yu Na Kim bombed the short and sleptwalked through the long to an easy silver. If the judges werent willing to give her a medal right then and there, it will never happen, under any circumstances. Anyone thinking otherwise is clearly delusional. Both are top 10 potential on a good day, very easy to be out of it on a bad one. No major difference really except one is young and still improving, while one has already maxed out at what she is.

 

[demarinis5]

Congratulations to Amelie on her first National Title. I hope the committee sends her to Worlds.

 

[derplutz]

per CBC: "Canada can enter just one skater in women's singles at the world championships in March in Nice, France, and Skate Canada CEO William Thompson said there's a chance they'll wait until after the Four Continents Championships to determine whether they'll send Lacoste or Phaneuf to France."

 

[Kissx3]

Slipchuk just said on tv that's what they're leaning towards. Kind of harsh for Lacoste but hopefully it drives both of them to a good 4CC showing.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Just bribe Joannie to compete next season. She can skip competition for a year and still land a fully rotated lutz and flip.

Is Osmond actually eligible to compete at 4CC/Worlds? Don't those skaters have to meet the season best standard, and I don't think she has.