Senior Ladies LP

[Spun Silver]

Mathman and flyingcamel, I so agree about Lanie Diggs. She was adorable and so tough. I will definitely be looking out for her in the future.

The only real sad note for me was Bebe. Always so endearing, musical, and interesting to watch, and hardly ever managing to do as well as we know she could. That was painful.

 

[turtle]

From charlotteobserver.com:

"There was nothing wrong with Flatt's program technically. Far from it. Her jumps were solid, and she did one of the few triple-triple combinations, a triple flip-triple toe loop. But her program had no life to it. She skated so slowly, she looked like a car about to run out of gas, and there was none of her bubbly personality in her skating."

"Zhang wasn't any better. Skating to the haunting "Ave Maria," she was as slow as her music. She dawdled so much going into her double axel that she practically came to a halt, taking off almost standing still."

Hmm, I feel like this reporter is basically repeating what Scott and Sandra were saying on TV.

 

[ChrisH]

I'm on the Pacific Coast, so I'm currently recording the LP and I haven't seen the protocols yet either, but I can make one observation. Seeing as Alissa got a good gap in PCS, which I expect was well deserved, too bad Caroline didn't get the same last year when her presentation was also superior to the rest.

It's a bit suprising that two other skaters managed to stay ahead of Caroline when she skated two clean programs. Congratulations to Alissa and Rachael for doing so. I wish Caroline had blown the rest of the competition away and so kept it out of the judges hands. At least with her placing 3rd, there should be less controversy about who's going to Worlds (than if she had placed 2nd). I'm happy that she apparently skated well. That two others managed to beat her says good things about our prospects for earning 3 spots for the Olympics.

 

[caseyl23]

If this competition was judged anything like what Nationals will be next year, I would be very troubled if I were Rachael Flatt. This is the girl who was probably the best internationally for the U.S. this year, yet here, in the free skate, a clean program could not beat a flawed Ashley Wagner and could barely beat an even-more flawed Alissa Czisny. I don't think this bodes well for her chances on the Olympic team unless something changes.
That being said, I do think that Rachael needs to change at least her free skate. This year, she looked so, well, flat compared to what I remember from her last year. In St. Paul, Rachael and Caroline skated the performances that stood out in my mind. This year, unfortunately, I found them both completely forgettable.
Again, based on the judging, I would guess that the most likely candidates for the Olympics will be Alissa, Ashley and, if she can straighten out the issues she had this year, Mirai Nagasu. Alissa and Ashley did not create magical performances tonight, but they have the potential to do so. Mirai did create a magical performance (in my opinion), but her technical content held her back. Her program components, though, were second-best of the night. If she can clean up the jumps, that bodes well for her for next year.

 

[Mathman]

From charlotteobserver.com:

...But [Rachael's] program had no life to it...

Zhang wasn't any better.

Phooey on the Charlotte Observer. Rachael was amazing, Caroline was exquisite. :yes:

 

[bekalc]

. But Alissa's spins were considerably better as was her overall performance, the "Big Picture". As some of you have said, jumps aren't the whole picture.

Alissa's spins were better but I bet the levels between her and Rachael were about the same when it comes to spins, footwork and spirals... Given that Rachael did vastly superior jumping content and Alissa only even attempted 4 triple jumps, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

And as for Lepisto, A LOT of people are angry that Laura won Euros with no flip or lutz, and felt for once Kostner was robbed.

The fact is though that internationally Alissa would not be getting 60 points in PCS. Thats' about 7 points higher than what Alissa gets internationally, and while she's a very pretty skater, Alissa's skating skills do need work.

I don't know I say all this but I must say that I do think Flatt is a really boring skater, and Flatt and her team need a wake up call about this.. So if that happens it's a good thing.

But no, I'm not thrilled about Alissa getting the scores she got. She wouldn't be getting 112 points at worlds if she only lands 3 triples, whereas Rachael most certainly would have gotten around the scors she got, for what she did tonight. It was a robbery even if Flatt IS boring.

 

[madibe]

I'm on the Pacific Coast, so I'm currently recording the LP and I haven't seen the protocols yet either, but I can make one observation. Seeing as Alissa got a good gap in PCS, which I expect was well deserved, too bad Caroline didn't get the same last year when her presentation was also superior to the rest.

It's a bit suprising that two other skaters managed to stay ahead of Caroline when she skated two clean programs. Congratulations to Alissa and Rachael for doing so. I wish Caroline had blown the rest of the competition away and so kept it out of the judges hands. At least with her placing 3rd, there should be less controversy about who's going to Worlds (than if she had placed 2nd). I'm happy that she apparently skated well. That two others managed to beat her says good things about our prospects for earning 3 spots for the Olympics.

Caroline's PCS scores last year suffered because she skated so early due to her low placement after the short program. Even so, Rachael, Ashley, and Mirai were all just as inspiring as she was that night, IMO, and deserved their high PCS's.

 

[AwesomeIce]

From charlotteobserver.com:

"There was nothing wrong with Flatt's program technically. Far from it. Her jumps were solid, and she did one of the few triple-triple combinations, a triple flip-triple toe loop. But her program had no life to it. She skated so slowly, she looked like a car about to run out of gas, and there was none of her bubbly personality in her skating."

"Zhang wasn't any better. Skating to the haunting "Ave Maria," she was as slow as her music. She dawdled so much going into her double axel that she practically came to a halt, taking off almost standing still."

Hmm, I feel like this reporter is basically repeating what Scott and Sandra were saying on TV.

But it is true, on both accounts, especially Caroline. My great grandma in her wheelchair could move faster than Zhang.

 

[ManyCairns]

If this competition was judged anything like what Nationals will be next year, I would be very troubled if I were Rachael Flatt. This is the girl who was probably the best internationally for the U.S. this year, yet here, in the free skate, a clean program could not beat a flawed Ashley Wagner and could barely beat an even-more flawed Alissa Czisny.

Agree. Eager to see what happens at Worlds. That is to say, maybe another strong showing by Rachael will win her more respect with the US judges.

 

[shine]

Alissa's spins were better but I bet the levels between her and Rachael were about the same when it comes to spins, footwork and spirals... Given that Rachael did vastly superior jumping content and Alissa only even attempted 4 triple jumps, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

And as for Lepisto, A LOT of people are angry that Laura won Euros with no flip or lutz, and felt for once Kostner was robbed.

The fact is though that internationally Alissa would not be getting 60 points in PCS. Thats' about 7 points higher than what Alissa gets internationally, and while she's a very pretty skater, Alissa's skating skills do need work.

I don't know I say all this but I must say that I do think Flatt is a really boring skater, and Flatt and her team need a wake up call about this.. So if that happens it's a good thing.

But no, I'm not thrilled about Alissa getting the scores she got. She wouldn't be getting 112 points at worlds if she only lands 3 triples, whereas Rachael most certainly would have gotten around the scors she got, for what she did tonight. It was a robbery even if Flatt IS boring.

I agree with your post. If Alissa winning is telling of anything it's the poor state that the US ladies are in. I wouldn't be ecstaticly jumping with joy if my National Champion won with a 3 triple LP.

 

[feraina]

My great grandma in her wheelchair could move faster than Zhang.

That's a bit unnecessarily mean, no?

 

[museksk8r]

I feel really bad for Rachael Flatt, I really do. For the 2nd straight year at senior Nationals, she is the ONE who skates a clean SP AND a clean LP completing all the technical content she had planned, and for the 2nd straight year, she finishes with the silver medal. And let's not forget her getting her 3+3 downgraded in the SP in 2007 while Kimmie Meissner's 3+3 did not get the same deductions for its clear under-rotation. It really seems this poor girl cannot catch a break!

 

[flying camel]

Its basically 2 months untill worlds. Isn't that enough time for Rachael to go back to either her SP or LP from last year???

 

[museksk8r]

Alissa's spins were better but I bet the levels between her and Rachael were about the same when it comes to spins, footwork and spirals... Given that Rachael did vastly superior jumping content and Alissa only even attempted 4 triple jumps, I'm sorry but that's ridiculous.

And as for Lepisto, A LOT of people are angry that Laura won Euros with no flip or lutz, and felt for once Kostner was robbed.

The fact is though that internationally Alissa would not be getting 60 points in PCS. Thats' about 7 points higher than what Alissa gets internationally, and while she's a very pretty skater, Alissa's skating skills do need work.

I don't know I say all this but I must say that I do think Flatt is a really boring skater, and Flatt and her team need a wake up call about this.. So if that happens it's a good thing.

But no, I'm not thrilled about Alissa getting the scores she got. She wouldn't be getting 112 points at worlds if she only lands 3 triples, whereas Rachael most certainly would have gotten around the scores she got, for what she did tonight. It was a robbery even if Flatt IS boring.

Agree with every word! Nevertheless, congrats to Alissa for her beautiful gold medal and to Rachael for her beautiful silver medal. Now, onto the real test, ladies, the World Championships. I think when all is said and done, Czisny and Flatt are as good a team as any that the USA could have representing them right now. Zhang has huge technical and skating skills deficiencies and Wagner REALLY blew her chances in the SP with her disastrous skate in that portion.

 

[tae04]

I have been really bored with the past two Nationals really. I miss the old days. I thought Zhang should have been 1st in the free program despite the ur 3-3 and slow speed. Czisny is a lovely vision on ice but her technical score will get hammered at Worlds. Flatt is always clean but unispiring and flat. I highly doubt either will be top 6 at Worlds.

 

[screech]

How about this? Alissa goes to Worlds, that's the rules. Send Rachael, Caroline and Ashley to 4 Continents and let them fight it out in front of international judges to see who gets the 2nd spot at Worlds.

Not the best idea for the top 3 to not go to 4CC, since it's taking place at the Olympics venue... when else will they have the chance to compete there before the Games? A huge advantage for 4CC competitors this year over others and a big reason USFS should send their top competitors, like Canada, rather than flaking out and sending their lower ranks and saving the energy of their tops.

Regarding the results, I would have had Alyssa closer to Rachel in the overall score, but still first overall. She had the 5 point cushion and lost about 7 points or so on those 2 messed up jumps. But her PCS should have more than made up those 2 points she would have been behind. I would have had her <2 points ahead of Rachel overall. Rachel had me so bored - there was nothing to her program. Alyssa actually had substance in between her elements. Plus, Alyssa's spins and spirals, etc were so far superior. Also, from what I saw, Alyssa does a true lutz whereas Rachel's looked a bit flutzy to me.

On another note, Caroline really needs to stop with the scary flip and lutz entries!! And was it just me or did all the double toes in one of the early skater's (I think Ashley's but I could be wrong) combinations look like blatant toe-axels?

 

[Medusa]

I feel really bad for Rachael Flatt, I really do. For the 2nd straight year at senior Nationals, she is the ONE who skates a clean SP AND a clean LP completing all the technical content she had planned, and for the 2nd straight year, she finishes with the silver medal. And let's not forget her getting her 3+3 downgraded in the SP in 2007 while Kimmie Meissner's 3+3 did not get the same deductions for its clear under-rotation. It really seems this poor girl cannot catch a break!

How was her program? I only saw it the first time at Skate America, and actually thought that it has potential.

We are always ending up with the same problem: how important is the technical content? Under 6.0 it was more like: do you have the content (3-3, Quad) and than they judged the presentation. That's how we got stuck with Plushy.

But I personally feel bad for the skaters who really bring it all (Flatt here, Préaubert at GPs) and lose to skaters with glaring mistakes.

 

[caseyl23]

Agree. Eager to see what happens at Worlds. That is to say, maybe another strong showing by Rachael will win her more respect with the US judges.

I hope so, because at this point, it seems like she has to fight and claw for absolutely everything she gets nationally. This year, I didn't think she was as good as she was last year - like I said before, I thought she had one of the most memorable performances of the event last year - but I thought she could have won last year, and I think she could have this year, too.
I think right now, among the top five girls, there are three (Alissa, Ashley and Mirai) that the judges want to succeed and two (Rachael and Caroline) who have to fight for their placements.

 

[Mathman]

Aboit possibly inflated PCSs, just for the record:

Alissa's PCS was 8.39 points higher than her average in her two Grand prix events, Rachael's were 3.59 higher, and Caroline's were 6.23 higher.

I am really happy for Alissa for winning the U.S. championship. Whatever happens at Worlds, or next year, she has that credential. She could ride off into the sunset of a great pro career right now if she wanted to. :yes:

 

[Mathman]

But I personally feel bad for the skaters who really bring it all (Flatt here, Préaubert at GPs) and lose to skaters with glaring mistakes.

Flatt skated very well in the LP and beat the skater who made mistakes, as is only right. In the SP, Alissa skated better. Then you add up the points. Someone has to come out on top, and someone second.