Senior Ladies LP

[bekalc]

Flatt skated very well in the LP and beat the skater who made mistakes, as is only right. In the SP, Alissa skated better. Then you add up the points. Someone has to come out on top, and someone second.

But you just pointed out that Alissa got 8 points higher on PCS than she gets internationally whereas Flatt only got 3. points higher, that's a big big difference.

Let's get into the fact that Alissa would not have scored 112 in the Free program for the skate that she got internationally. Heck, Mao Asada didn't get a 112 in the Free Program at TEB and Mao landed more triples than Alissa did. And Alissa is nowhere near Mao's skating level.

So that's what's ridiculous about this whole results. Why the USFSA decided to inflate Alissa so much more than everyone else, when she is their most unreliable skater, at the expense of two skaters (Flatt and Zhang who are much, much, much more reliable.)

No way should Alissa scores have been only a point off Flatt's for the free.

 

[tarotx]

What I really don't get is that many of the people defending Alissa's gold say horrible horrible things when PCS keep Carolina Kostner near the top. Now I'm glad a mature skater is the US national champion (I love Alissa) I just find it funny when people get in a huff about the PCS's holding the skater they don't like up but don't when it's the skater they like.

 

[feraina]

Alissa's PCS was 8.39 points higher than her average in her two Grand prix events, Rachael's were 3.59 higher, and Caroline's were 6.23 higher.

I'm not saying that Alissa doesn't deserve higher PCS than the rest. But Alissa has been skating worse and worse over the season, Rachael got better from SA to CoR, and was about the same here as CoR. And Caroline got significantly better over the season. So I think it'd be fairer to look at the inflation over the last GP.

Alissa: CoR (52.40), National's (60.63), increase: 8.23
Rachael: CoR (49.28), National's (53.31), increase: 4.03
Caroline: TEB (49.12), National's (53.71), increase: 4.59

Anyway...

I think it's great that Caroline has steadily improved on her programs over the season. Of all the top U.S. ladies this season, I think she showed the most improvement and determination over the course of the year. This bodes well for the future. she's going to really need to improve on her speed/power and fix her jumping technique if she's going to aim for a more successful skating career, which I can see in her eyes that she really wants.

Anyway, Mathman, aren't you always saying that clean programs are key to high PCS? Why is Alissa always an exception?

 

[museksk8r]

How was her program? I only saw it the first time at Skate America, and actually thought that it has potential.

Rachael did:

2Axel
nice speed into 3flip+3toe+C
sweeping arm movements/spread eagle
3Lutz
butterflies into camel spin/catch-foot spin
sweeping movements/spread eagle/catch-foot I spiral
COE spiral into biellman/catch-foot spiral
x3flip+2loop+C
backward entry into camel spin/catch-foot spin/change of foot/catch-foot spin
long spread eagle
x3Salchow
x3loop
x3Lutz+2toe+2loop+C
interesting straight line footwork sequence (I noticed her tiring here a bit)
forward camel/catch-foot spin/change of direction/sit spin/upright spin/scratch spin (loved that she spinned in both directions!)

TES: 60.28 PCS: 53.31 TOTAL: 113.59

Alissa did:

wonderful interpretation of the music right away
3Lutz+2toe+C
sweeping movements
3flip
wonderful connection to the music
3-turns into 3loop
lovely flying sit spin into pancake spin
nice choreography
2Axel+2toe+C
she's so beautiful & lady-like hitting all the musical accents
x3Lutz (fall & looked UR to me)
x2toe+2toe+C
COE forward spiral into forward Charlotte spiral into backward catch-foot spiral
x2Axel (scratchy landing)
circular footwork sequence with wonderful leaps accenting the music very nicely
forward camel spin/sit spin/change of foot/sit spin/I-spin
beautiful layback spin/Biellman spin

very disappointed in herself at the end

TES: 52.68 PCS: 60.63 DED: 1.00 TOTAL: 112.31

Final Result:
1. Czisny 178.06
2. Flatt 173.78

Rachael desperately needs to work on her posture and the lack of speed in her spins. Her spin positions are not very aesthetically pleasing in the way that Czisny's are. I didn't feel as much expression from Flatt in this program as I did from her LP last season. With that being said, I absolutely feel Flatt should have finished 1st and Czisny should have been 2nd. Rachael had 7 clean triples and Alissa only managed 3. While Czisny is the more beautiful, lady-like skater, I don't think this warrants a 4 triple cushion over Flatt, and yes, I'm well aware Alissa had something like a 5.5 lead over Rachael after the SP. Maybe if Rachael skated like Ludmila Neledina, then I could accept the result, but Flatt is not that bad artistically. She's a very quiet, sensitive skater who happens to have some posture problems. Still, she listens to her music and is very capable of some lovely movements. I still feel she wuzrobbed here!

 

[Mathman]

What I really don't get is that many of the people defending Alissa's gold say horrible horrible things when PCS keep Carolina Kostner near the top.

That is quite easy to understand. The people who feel that way think that Alissa's skating deserves high Program Component Scores and thqt Carolina's skating does not.

 

[jennylovskt]

I am really, really happy for Alissa. Finally a gold medal in her hand. She should win. Even though Flatt had better FS, it feels so right for Alissa to be on top of Flatt. It's just my feeling. I didn't study for the scores.

 

[museksk8r]

But you just pointed out that Alissa got 8 points higher on PCS than she gets internationally whereas Flatt only got 3. points higher, that's a big big difference.

Let's get into the fact that Alissa would not have scored 112 in the Free program for the skate that she got internationally. Heck, Mao Asada didn't get a 112 in the Free Program at TEB and Mao landed more triples than Alissa did. And Alissa is nowhere near Mao's skating level.

So that's what's ridiculous about this whole results. Why the USFSA decided to inflate Alissa so much more than everyone else, when she is their most unreliable skater, at the expense of two skaters (Flatt and Zhang who are much, much, much more reliable.)

No way should Alissa scores have been only a point off Flatt's for the free.

Sadly, I agree. This was not a fair result. Flatt should have been privy to the PCS score inflation that Czisny was.

 

[Mathman]

Anyway, Mathman, aren't you always saying that clean programs are key to high PCS? Why is Alissa always an exception?

Thjat's a good question. I don't know why Alissa is always an exception to this rule. But she is, even in international compertition.

For every other skater, the PCSs seem to track the tech scores pretty dependably. Alissa (look at Cup of Russia!) gets uniformly high PCSs no matter what.

I guess she just brings something unique to the field, in the opinions of both U.S. and international judges.

...very disappointed in herself at the end.

The cardinal sin for all performers. Sell, sell, sell. No matter how many times you fall, smile like you just nailed it!

Even Scott Hamilton said it, don't sell your mistakes, sell what you did well. Alissa probably cost herself a couple of points right there.

 

[feraina]

I'm watching the delayed west-coast broadcast. When they showed a close-up of Rachael Flatt in the K&C, I realized that she already has wrinkles around her eyes! I can't believe she's only 16.

They're showing Caroline now. Her lutz is better! Yes, still the mule-kick, but less of an inside edge!

Hey, she finishes with a standing ovation! How come she didn't beat Rachael flatt in the FS? I wonder where she lost to Flatt in the TES? (by almost 2 points)

 

[tarotx]

Like Carolina brings speed and good blade work Alissa brings the stunning. She doesn't have the best technique even in her to die for spins (except for the layback) but she's stunning.

 

[rain]

Opinion from someone with no horse in this race (I'm not American, and had no favourite amongst the ladies coming in):

Czisny was the only one who skated with any connection to the music and presence on the ice. Best spins in the competition. A couple of jump errors that rightfully put her behind cleaner skates in the long, but won the short program.

Many young ladies with lots of potential in the pack here, but a number seem to have underrotation problems on their jumps, and almost all need major, major work on presentation. It looked a lot like a jumping contest, aside from Czisny.

Can't wait to see in a year or so if some of the girls work on their musicality and presentation. Most seem to have a good solid jump repertoire to build on.

 

[Tigger]

I am so sick of the arguements about skating's a sport and all of the usual complaints that pop up when that group deems the skater who won the event isn't the rightful Champion in their eyes.

Skating is an artistic sport. While Rachel landed her jumps, that's about all she did. She didn't reach me or give me the chills. Plus she still needs to work on her spins and other elements. The name of this sport is skating after all. It's a sport w/a soul that is supposed to combine the best of art and sport. Which is what I feel CoP is killing about skating, but that's an arguement for another time and place.

What's it not, at least not yet, is only jumping w/music in the background, which is what I saw when watching Rachel. Perhaps if her team gave her the powerful music I feel she needs to match her athletic style, then I think Rachel will finally have that kind of a program. She's not there now though and I thought her placement was the right one when you combine both segments of the compeitition.

Now...WAAAAHHHHOOOOO!!!!!

Congratulations to the United States Ladies Figure Skating Champion Alissa Cziny!!! I was among those choked up and w/tears running down my cheeks after all was said and done. This girl's been through so very much and she's finally through the other side. So, so, so happy for her!!!

For those who would like it, please feel free to paste and copy the following picture to your files. All I ask is the credit for the picture. I took this at Skate Canada in November when Alissa was the only one of the Medalists to stick around and meet the fans. It was lovely to see what I've watched on TV these last few years is exactly what you get w/Alissa. An incredably classy lady who is truly worthy of the title Champion.

For those who are still naysaying her for Worlds...Regardless of how you feel about Alissa, she is now your National Champion and *will* be going to Worlds. How about actually...Oh gee, I don't know...Supporting her regardless? I did that during the Elvis Stokjo years here in Canada. He was not and still is not my favourite skater, but he was the National and World Champion and I rooted him to do well for Canada's sake. How about trying that for Alissa?

And if you still can't bring yourself to cheer on Alissa for that reason, then I suggest you head somewhere where you can read a transcript or watch Tina Fey's Acceptance Speech from the Golden Globes a couple of weeks ago. While this isn't the exact quote, it's pretty much the same thing...

Alissa's the 2009 United States Champion. Deal w/it!!

 

[kyla2]

Thoughts

First, there is no comparison between Carolina Kostner and Alissa. Alissa has it hands down in PCS. Kostner's speed is a poor substitute for the sheer beauty of Alissa's skating.

However, having said that, this was a tough one to call. I am on both sides of this fence. I believe 2 clean programs (Rachel) should be rewarded and I also believe the artistry of the caliber of Alissa's should be as well. But where do you place them in relation to one another. I have long believed skating is not just a sport but the best of art and sport combined. So where does one trump the other? In the good old days we knew that answer. Art (PCS) always trumped when it was close. However, this was not close in terms of jump content at all. Rachel, on the other hand, was not even close in presentation, spins and spirals. When you compare the beauty and complexity of one program to another, Alissa's wins out. So I think that's how the judges called it. The other side of this is that there are skaters who do both, and Alissa is going to have to step it up at Worlds. She is improving, so Brian Boitano has made a difference.

The ladies did good tonite. Gladdened my heart.

 

[Medusa]

Icentwork says that both Rachel's and Caroline's 3-3 got downgraded. Mirai had both 3Fs downgraded.

 

[shine]

First, there is no comparison between Carolina Kostner and Alissa. Alissa has it hands down in PCS. Kostner's speed is a poor substitute for the sheer beauty of Alissa's skating.

I absolutely disagree with that statement. Not only does Kostner have basic skating that Cizsny can only dream of, her upper body also moves with a freedom that contrasts Czisny's rigid shoulders and arms. Czisny may be flexible and with good extension, but I far prefer Kostner's presentation and interpretation to hers.

 

[ks777]

I missed the tv coverage!! what happaned to my Mirai?

 

[Lissy]

I missed the tv coverage!! what happaned to my Mirai?

Mirai was crying right before her program. After her skate, she told Andrea Joyce that she was crying because she didn't want to skate poorly like she did in her short program. It wasn't a perfect skate (lots of downgrades) but she skated clean and she made me cry. I was SO proud of her.

 

[ks777]

Mirai was crying right before her program. After her skate, she told Andrea Joyce that she was crying because she didn't want to skate poorly like she did in her short program. It wasn't a perfect skate (lots of downgrades) but she skated clean and she made me cry. I was SO proud of her.

Thank you!! I am waiting for the videos on youtube...

 

[caaather]

Thank you!! I am waiting for the videos on youtube...

me2! i would be grateful if somone could upload caroline's LP,
interviews...

 

[Hiara80]

do you have any Alissa video?