Senior Ladies LP
- Thread starter Pikachuusb
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Here's what Alissa said in her journal about her last trip to Four Continents: "U.S. Nationals was over, and I think that all of the medalists were asked to compete at Four Continents Championships this year since it was in the U.S. I was tired out after nationals and wanted to rest before Worlds and go back to my training feeling fresh, but that didn’t happen. I went to Colorado Springs instead."
What followed was a disastrous performance at World's. From that, I think it would be best if she didn't go to Four Continents or even the Collegiate Championships.
What followed was a disastrous performance at World's. From that, I think it would be best if she didn't go to Four Continents or even the Collegiate Championships.
How about this:
The Judges did her a favor and let her win Nationals (an honor anyone would kill to have). Now she can return that favor and bow out of Worlds and let Zhang go.
Alyssa's performance will not rank a 6th or 7th place at Worlds but, Flatt's 7-triple jump program can and will. In reality we need Wagner or Zhang to go and secure that third spot. Alyssa's is too unreliable and she knows it too.
Yuna, Mao, Rochette, Kostner, Ando have a strangle hold on the top 5 pots.
The Judges did her a favor and let her win Nationals (an honor anyone would kill to have). Now she can return that favor and bow out of Worlds and let Zhang go.
Alyssa's performance will not rank a 6th or 7th place at Worlds but, Flatt's 7-triple jump program can and will. In reality we need Wagner or Zhang to go and secure that third spot. Alyssa's is too unreliable and she knows it too.
Yuna, Mao, Rochette, Kostner, Ando have a strangle hold on the top 5 pots.
Flatt only had a 6 triple jump program. Caroline too. Alissa looks to me as if she only had a 2 clean triple jump and perhaps she rotated the flip she fell on. I'm going back to watch. That said I'm glad Caroline and Rachael aren't the national champion. That is a lot of pressure and two younger girls have a lot of improving to do.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2008
Why do you assume Zhang and Wagner would do better at Worlds? Czisny has had better results this year nationally and internationally. I doubt the US ladies will be able to place high enough to get back to three skaters, but I don't think Zhang's participation will make it any more likely.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2009
I don't want to sound rude or offend anyone with what I'm about to say, but I'm more than a little surprised and bothered by some of the comments made about Alissa Czisny's first US Championship win.
The idea that US skating fans are somehow being railroaded or forced into supporting a lackluster or undesirable champion is really offensive. I'm in awe of what's she's done, and I don't just mean the skating. I can't imagine how hard it must be to be the "older skater" in a sea of little jumping beans. Or how hard it must be to hear about your "potential" all the time, and then feel like you're letting people down when you make mistakes. Or how hard it must be to have the skating fan community expect overnight miracles because you've been working with Brian Boitano, arguably one of the sport's greatest champions ever. Or how hard it must be to know that you're smack-dab in the center of a situation that the media is spinning as a fairy tale. She's been dealing with all that and more, and yet she conducts herself with grace and poise and puts her heart into everything she does. I'm in awe, as I said.
Not to take anything away from any of the other ladies, many of whom skated beautifully, but Alissa deserved that win. It was moving. Yes, she had a cushion from the SP, but that's how the system is set up now. Some posters here are responding as if Alissa unjustly won the LP last night; let's all remember, not only did she NOT win it, she came in third. Her errors WERE penalized. But that "something special" she had, as well as the overall quality of skating, were rewarded. I'm impressed that the judges got it right--that doesn't happen often enough.
If you don't care for Alissa's style, that's certainly fine; we're all entitled to our opinions, and I think we should be able to like who and what we genuinely like. But to suggest that she's going to be a bad representative for US figure skating. . . I think that's crossing the line.
The idea that US skating fans are somehow being railroaded or forced into supporting a lackluster or undesirable champion is really offensive. I'm in awe of what's she's done, and I don't just mean the skating. I can't imagine how hard it must be to be the "older skater" in a sea of little jumping beans. Or how hard it must be to hear about your "potential" all the time, and then feel like you're letting people down when you make mistakes. Or how hard it must be to have the skating fan community expect overnight miracles because you've been working with Brian Boitano, arguably one of the sport's greatest champions ever. Or how hard it must be to know that you're smack-dab in the center of a situation that the media is spinning as a fairy tale. She's been dealing with all that and more, and yet she conducts herself with grace and poise and puts her heart into everything she does. I'm in awe, as I said.
Not to take anything away from any of the other ladies, many of whom skated beautifully, but Alissa deserved that win. It was moving. Yes, she had a cushion from the SP, but that's how the system is set up now. Some posters here are responding as if Alissa unjustly won the LP last night; let's all remember, not only did she NOT win it, she came in third. Her errors WERE penalized. But that "something special" she had, as well as the overall quality of skating, were rewarded. I'm impressed that the judges got it right--that doesn't happen often enough.
If you don't care for Alissa's style, that's certainly fine; we're all entitled to our opinions, and I think we should be able to like who and what we genuinely like. But to suggest that she's going to be a bad representative for US figure skating. . . I think that's crossing the line.
Not a huge fan of the top three ladies (if anything my favorites here were Maxwell, Wagner & Nagasu) but, imo, the results are fair. I don't think any of these girls are the whole package, but Alissa is the best of all of them.
Zhang: Even when landed, the edges into her jumps are all over the place, and let's not even go into the horrendous mule kick (which makes me worry when I think about the damage she's got to be doing to herself skating with that technique). Even when landed cleanly, there's no way her jumps should receive + GOE - no height, distance, wrong edges, mule kick, the way she twists her torso. She has some of the best spins in the field. But her footwork is slow and not very good in general, her basic skating is poor and she is SLOW. With this particular LP, it's like I'm supposed to be awed by the beauty of it all, but really I am just so bored. She doesn't show much expression, either.
Flatt: Even more boring than Zhang. However, she's got good, solid jumps. Everything else needs work. She's consistent, but if you are landing 6-7 triples and still not getting big marks, you're doing something wrong. Her last name pretty much describes her skating.
Alissa: She's slow too, but not as bad as Zhang or Flatt. She's one of those "beautiful without the jumps" skaters. But overall her skating is much more mature and soulful than the other two, so I'm glad she won. She makes you watch her, which, imo isn't the case with Flatt or Zhang. I do think she was overmarked but then again, so was everyone else. Congrats to her on her (very deserved) national title!
Zhang: Even when landed, the edges into her jumps are all over the place, and let's not even go into the horrendous mule kick (which makes me worry when I think about the damage she's got to be doing to herself skating with that technique). Even when landed cleanly, there's no way her jumps should receive + GOE - no height, distance, wrong edges, mule kick, the way she twists her torso. She has some of the best spins in the field. But her footwork is slow and not very good in general, her basic skating is poor and she is SLOW. With this particular LP, it's like I'm supposed to be awed by the beauty of it all, but really I am just so bored. She doesn't show much expression, either.
Flatt: Even more boring than Zhang. However, she's got good, solid jumps. Everything else needs work. She's consistent, but if you are landing 6-7 triples and still not getting big marks, you're doing something wrong. Her last name pretty much describes her skating.
Alissa: She's slow too, but not as bad as Zhang or Flatt. She's one of those "beautiful without the jumps" skaters. But overall her skating is much more mature and soulful than the other two, so I'm glad she won. She makes you watch her, which, imo isn't the case with Flatt or Zhang. I do think she was overmarked but then again, so was everyone else. Congrats to her on her (very deserved) national title!
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
I agree with you! Flatt and Czisny are the two who deserve to go to Worlds this year. The judges would hammer Zhang and Nagasu with under-rotation downgrades and Zhang would be hammered in PCS as well. As I said before, Wagner blew any chance she had with her disastrous SP. The correct 2 skaters are going . . . the only error I see is that I would have flipped their Nationals placements, but all in all, I'm happy that Rachael and Alissa are going. I want to see Czisny skate a better LP and improve on her lacking speed! . . . with her very limited jump content, she's going to need to be perfect at Worlds to have any hope of a top 6 finish. I really hope Flatt focuses on correcting her posture problems and works on increasing her speed as she strives in the coming year to fight for an Olympic spot. She needs to add that spark, power, and finesse that is missing from her skating. GO LADIES!
I think the reality is very very discouraging.
Do we even have ONE skater that might end up in the top 8? Yuna, all of the japaneese girls, Caroline, Joanee. The prospects are BLEAK. USFSA needs a huge wake up call. Some of these old farts who are producing the same cookie cutter jumpers and skaters need to retire.(Sorry Frank, but I mean you). USFSA needs to pick the world team carefully, and perhaps at the last minute. They need to revamp the U.S. development of figure skating (starting with scrapping much of 'moves in the field and the laborious pre-prelim etc. requirements) They need to start looking at why we are so far behind the world at this point. The jumping technique of the US women is pathetic-about the last great US jumper I can think of is Bobek. No Julia S., no Irinia S.
Watching that mess last night just made me feel so sad for how bad U.S. figure skating has sunk.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
Congrats to Alissa!! I'm very very happy for her.
With Laura, Alissa and Joannie artistry won in Europe and in North America!
Not sure about the comparisons here, Joannie has athleticism AND artistry. She won her Canadian title with a 7 triple LP where she repeated the 3Lutz and had a 3toe+half loop+3Salchow sequence, much more difficult than anything Laura and Alissa have done. I have to agree with you that I'm happy for all 3 of them! They are all very lovely ladies! Hope they all skate their bests at Worlds!!
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Great post :agree:
My thoughts on the performances......
Alexe Gilles...what great jumps....I really liked her skating....not sure about the program, but the basics are there, kwim?
Ashley Wagner.....the improvements she's made to her skating are definitely noticeable. Good for her for pulling it together and skating well.
Bebe Liang......poor kid.....she didn't seem to have any life in her last night
Mirai Nagasu.....I really like her skating. I think once she gets her ankle healed and starts training again, she'll be back next year. Again, the basics are there....
Caroline Zhang.....OMG this kid needs to SKATE!!! It's like she's walking around on the ice instead of skating. Her jumping technique is pretty bad. Her programs don't hold my interest....there is no expression on her face or in her movements. Sigh.
Rachael Flatt......like her last name, her skating is flat. Boring. Bah. She needs to skate to faster music....get a little personality in there!
Alissa Czisny.....while she's not my favorite skater, her program as a whole was the best. The whole package so to speak.
Alexe Gilles...what great jumps....I really liked her skating....not sure about the program, but the basics are there, kwim?
Ashley Wagner.....the improvements she's made to her skating are definitely noticeable. Good for her for pulling it together and skating well.
Bebe Liang......poor kid.....she didn't seem to have any life in her last night
Mirai Nagasu.....I really like her skating. I think once she gets her ankle healed and starts training again, she'll be back next year. Again, the basics are there....
Caroline Zhang.....OMG this kid needs to SKATE!!! It's like she's walking around on the ice instead of skating. Her jumping technique is pretty bad. Her programs don't hold my interest....there is no expression on her face or in her movements. Sigh.
Rachael Flatt......like her last name, her skating is flat. Boring. Bah. She needs to skate to faster music....get a little personality in there!
Alissa Czisny.....while she's not my favorite skater, her program as a whole was the best. The whole package so to speak.
Wrong. Look at the protocols. Flatt has 5 clean (one UR and one egde call, so that makes 7-2 =5, Caroline one UR 3 edge calls 7-4= 3 clean, Alissa 3 clean).
Caroline got edge calls on both flips and the lutz in the LP. I'm really surprised. I don't think she's ever gotten edge calls on her flips before, and her flips look the same as they always did, certainly through this GP season. What's going on with this tech panel?
Wow, this is a pretty funny discussion. People are becoming pretty rabid in defending Alissa's title. I love love love the girl and have ever since the first time I saw her in Skate America 2004 but I think she won on overly inflated PCS scores. Rachael was lackluster in the presentation side but the triples and all the levels she achieved in the lp speak for themselves and I really think international judges would have scored the outcome differently.
If it were Sasha in Alissa's place I have a feeling the discussion would be equally as rabid, except with uber-fans vs. uber haters. Same if it were Kwan in Czisny's place. Forgive me for bringing up their names but I miss me some Kwan and Cohen.
As a poster already said, I don't mind Flatt not winning, someone of Czisny's caliber should have a piece of major hardware to show for her years of gorgeous skating. Flatt, Zhang and the rest all have years to develop, and I hope they will! Let's hope Flatt AND Czisny both place in the top 7 at World's like I know they can!
If it were Sasha in Alissa's place I have a feeling the discussion would be equally as rabid, except with uber-fans vs. uber haters. Same if it were Kwan in Czisny's place. Forgive me for bringing up their names but I miss me some Kwan and Cohen.
As a poster already said, I don't mind Flatt not winning, someone of Czisny's caliber should have a piece of major hardware to show for her years of gorgeous skating. Flatt, Zhang and the rest all have years to develop, and I hope they will! Let's hope Flatt AND Czisny both place in the top 7 at World's like I know they can!
Sometimes i can't believe what i've been hearing (reading?) in this thread. Many of you are complaining because a beautiful 21 year old lady won the title with excellent spins and spirals over a 16 year old jumper? And that finally (for once) artistry is being rewarded over only sheer atheticism?
Am i understanding this correctly?
I don't get it. For years, i can remember people being upset that the jumping beans won over the artistic skater, and when finally it's the opposite, people are still griping. Oookay.
For me, i am very happy for Alissa. Congratulations Alissa, for sticking in there, going to college, graduating soon, and being a beautiful skater. I'm very proud of you.
Am i understanding this correctly?
I don't get it. For years, i can remember people being upset that the jumping beans won over the artistic skater, and when finally it's the opposite, people are still griping. Oookay.
For me, i am very happy for Alissa. Congratulations Alissa, for sticking in there, going to college, graduating soon, and being a beautiful skater. I'm very proud of you.
Look I like artistry and want artistry to be rewarded like everything else, but figure skating is still a sport. If Rachael had landed 7 triples and Alissa had landed five, I would have been totally understanding of Alissa's win because Alissa "is" the prettier skater.
But three triple jumps makes you the ladies champion? Well Debbie Thomas landed more triple jumps. And yes, Rachael got an ! but that's a minor, and likely cost her about a point in GOE if that. I'd take 6 triples with and ! over a 3 triple performance.
Rachael was doing a much, much, much more difficult program than Alissa was doing. All of her spins/footwork was the same difficulty as Alissa and her jumps were by far harder (what both were attempting) when your doing a way more difficult program, it's a lot harder to be "free and concentrate on the "performance".
Alissa's prettiness shouldn't trump the fact that this is a sport. All I'm saying that this was the weakest ladies champion in years. Years. When I think about all the crap Sasha Cohen has gotten in the past, when Sasha was normally good for at least 5 good triple jumps. I mean Alissa's attempted only 4 triples.
Yes, skating is a sport. But if i wanted (and this is where skating gets subjective) to see sheer athleticism i would watch football or something. To you, the jumps are maybe more important and to me, the artistry is. Frankly, I think Rachael is terribly dull even on a good day, and i don't think her jumps are enough to compensate for that. Alissa, on the other hand, has much more than simply jumps and she is one of those skaters who is nice to watch even when the jumps aren't as there. She still has a beautiful spirals and some of the best spins in the buisness. Really, the only thing Rachael has on Alissa is the jumps, and skating isn't all about that anymore. Sure, i would have liked Alissa to have skated better, but overall, I'm thrilled she won.
But you are always entitled to your opinion just like I am to mine.
And there are many skaters who do very hard programs and still can emote a little. I don't think that is a very good excuse for Rachael.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
I think Alissa should go to 4CC. We need to see how international judges like her 4 triple program.
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