Shizuka, Sasha and Michelle and Interpretation According to CoP

[rtureck]

You're right, what a brilliant idea! Most likely judges have confused Kwan for Arakawa. (Always knew I can count on you for some creative, unbiased perspective).

How did you ever think of judges confused Kwan for Arakawa from what I post.
I said, "IMO if Arakawa skated after Sasha, Arakawa would have all 6.0s" It is not my idea re: most likely judges confusing Kwan for Arakawa, it is yours, so don't put words in my mouth. registered Kwan is a Chinese America, and Arakawa is a Japanese. There are Chinese Americans and Japanese Americans living in your town right?

I said if Arakawa skated after Sasha IMO she would have all of 6.0s, and Kwan did not get all 6.0s, just six

 

[registered]

How did you ever think of judges confused Kwan for Arakawa from what I post.
I said, "IMO if Arakawa skated after Sasha, Arakawa would have all 6.0s" It is not my idea re: most likely judges confusing Kwan for Arakawa, it is yours, so don't put words in my mouth. registered Kwan is a Chinese America, and Arakawa is a Japanese. There are Chinese Americans and Japanese Americans living in your town right?

I said if Arakawa skated after Sasha IMO she would have all of 6.0s, and Kwan did not get all 6.0s, just six

Well, if judges gave Kwan 6.0's that belonged to Arakawa, then, no matter how you'd like to tip toe around the issue, it comes to judges confusing MK for SA. Don't try to back off now.

 

[rtureck]

Well, if judges gave Kwan 6.0's that belonged to Arakawa, then, no matter how you'd like to tip toe around the issue, it comes to judges confusing MK for SA. Don't try to back off no

Who is tip toeing. Judges did not give Kwan the 6.0s that belonged to Shizuka, they gave Kwan the deserved 6.0s relative to Cohen. The issue is that if Cohen's lifeless swan lake received some 5.8s and 5.9s then Kwan deserved the six 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.8s and 5.9s, and Arakawa deserved all 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.8s and 5.9s. Judges gave Arakawa mostly 5.8s and 5.9s the same marks for a much more superior skated program compared to Sasha's that is the issue.

Judges did not confused MK for SA. Again one is a Chinese American, and the other is a Japanese, so how did you even come close to confusing the 2

 

[registered]

Who is tip toeing. The issue is that if Cohen's lifeless swan lake received some 5.8s and 5.9s then Kwan deserved the six 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.8s and 5.9s, and Arakawa deserved all 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.8s and 5.9s. Judges gave Arakawa mostly 5.8s and 5.9s the same marks for a much more superior skated program compared to Sasha's that is the issue.

Judges did not confused MK for SA. Again one is a Chinese American, and the other is a Japanese, so how did you even come close to confusing the 2

No, the issue is, as stated previously, judges awarding Kwan 6.0 for a flat, motionless performance (if you'd discount an expression of anger on her face, but I won't blame her for feeling angry).

Weather or not judges would give Arakwa 6.0's is irrelevant, since she'd win either way. So how's confusing the issue here?

 

[rtureck]

No, the issue is, as stated previously, judges awarding Kwan 6.0 for a flat, motionless performance (if you'd discount an expression of anger on her face, but I won't blame her for feeling angry).

"Weather" or not judges would give Arakwa 6.0's is irrelevant, since she'd win either way. So how's confusing the issue here?

No the issue is that all marks are relative. Weather Kwan's performance is flat or not , her performance was better than the lifeless one from Cohen, and judges unfortunately overmarked Cohen with 5.8s and 5.9s, and they had no choice but to give some 6.0s to Kwan relative to Cohen's lifeless performance. And Cohen's swan lake was flatter than flat, I won't blame her for a flat performance, it is tough to skate after a near perfection one from Arakawa. Even with the six 6.0s Kwan was beat by both Cohen and Arakawa, so according to your logic it should be irrelevant (if we follow the logic re: Arakawa) You did not take a look at the big picture that no matter how flat Kwan's Tosca seemed to you, she skated better than Sasha.

 

[registered]

Cohen with 5.8s and 5.9s, and they had no choice but to give some 6.0s to Kwan relative to Cohen's performance.

Phew... Took me 3 posts to have you finally agree with me, that Kwan's performance didn't deserve 6.0. It was fun and was worth the effort.

Regarding Kwan skating better than Cohen, how come she ended up with a bronze, while Sasha won silver?

 

[rtureck]

Phew you can't have it both ways, Cohen's free skate performance was lifeless and did not deserve the 5.8s and 5.9s (relative to Arakawa), so you can not grudge on Kwan's 6.0s without acknowledging that Cohen did not deserve the 5.8s and 5.9s.

Kwan was outskated in the competition as a whole, but her Tosca was much better than Cohen's lifeless, flat, motionless Swan lake in the free skate. Cohen's swan relative to arakawa's 5.8s and 5.9s should receive probably 5.6s and 5.7s. Kwan Tosca in the lp should be 5.8s and 5.9s if Cohen receives her deserved 5.6s and 5.7s and not overmarked with 5.8s and 5.9s

Cohen was overmarked with 5.8s relative to SA's and 5.9s and Kwan was appropriately marked with 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.8s and 5.9s.

 

[registered]

Phew you can't have it both ways, Cohen's performance was lifeless and did not deserve the 5.8s and 5.9s, so you can not grudge on Kwan's 6.0s without acknowledging that Cohen did not deserve the 5.8s and 5.9s.

Kwan was outskated in the competition as a whole, but her Tosca was much better than Cohen's lifeless Swan lake in the free skate. Cohen's swan relative to arakawa's 5.8s and 5.9s should receive probably 5.6s and 5.7s. Kwan Tosca in the lp should be 5.8s and 5.9s if Cohen receives her deserved 5.6s and 5.7s and not overmarked 5.8s and 5.9s

I strongly disagree with your depiction of Cohen's performance and don't buy the fuzzy math you're trying to back up your point with.

But I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that Kwan got over marked for her free skate, it's just that you and I came to the same conclusion using different reasoning, so it's all good.

 

[rtureck]

I strongly disagree with your depiction of Cohen's performance and don't buy the fuzzy math you're trying to back up your point with.

Then we have to agree to disagree. I too disgree with your depiction of Kwan's performance.

But I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking that Kwan got over marked for her free skate, it's just that you and I came to the same conclusion using different reasoning, so it's all good.

There is no fuzzy math, I am agreeing with judges that Kwan deserved the 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.9s. I think Cohen was way overmarked with 5.8s and 5.9s reltive to Shizuka. I am looking at the big picture and you are not. My conclusion is different from yours, my conclusion is that relative to Cohen's lifeless flat swan lake in the free skate, Kwan deserved her 6.0s. IMO Cohen was the most overmarked amongl the top ladies in the free skate.

But if you insist on Cohen deserving 5.8s and 5.9s for her swan lake free skate, then actually I think Kwan deserved to be 6.1, so there I did not say 6.0 , and you can say I agree with you with a different reasoning

 

[registered]

There is no fuzzy math, I am agreeing with judges that Kwan deserved the 6.0s relative to Cohen's 5.9s, and if you don't agree fine.

I see your point, you believe both skaters got over marked, as you put it "judges had no choice, but to give MK 6.0's..."

I happen to think this was only the case with Kwan, since her performance was worse than Ando's, IMO. To think of it, it was Miki, who got punished for judges feeling they have to award MK or being brave out there. (And if you don't agree with me, fine .

 

[rtureck]

Actually, I think Cohen was overmarked relative to Arakawa, and Kwan was appropriately marked relative to Cohen

Ando was appropriately marked relative to Kwan and Arakawa. she was probably under marked compared to Cohen's flat and lifeless free skate. So there

Lets conclude that since we will never agree on this one that you think Kwan was the most overmarked, and I think Cohen was the most overmarked.

 

[registered]

Lets conclude that since we will never agree on this one that you think Kwan was the most overmarked, and I think Cohen was the most overmarked.

Hmm, I never said anyone else got overmarked, but Kwan, have I? But the argument seems to go in circles, for sure.

 

[rtureck]

Hmm, I never said anyone else got overmarked, but Kwan, have I? But the argument seems to go in circles, for sure.

Well, I try to look at the big picture.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I think Adam is correct. If one looks at the different factors to the 5 components, it is seemingly impossible for anyone to really put a score down for each factor of the components. And then have the scores ready for final tally. There just isn't enough time to do this fairly. Because of the rush to score, I can see some judges actually make errors when there was no intent to mark someone that low or that high.

However, the judges no longer have to score any technical elements after the skate is over, except for disputes. They don't have to review any notes on elements, because that's over the moment the last element ends. They can use the post-performance judging time to focus on the five Program Elements, or the overall skate and how/whether it fit together to form a whole.

 

[Mathman]

Ando was certainly not undermarked in the free skate. Sebestien was better, and Suguri was better than any of them, including Cohen. (Cohen of course deserved her silver medal because of her strong qualifying round performance and excellent placement in the short program.)

I hope the CoP will make it possible for skaters in the second flight to be marked according to their performances, rather than held back in order to reserve the higher marks for the top flight.

Mathman

 

[Fossi]

I agree with Mathman!

 

[hockeyfan228]

Ando was certainly not undermarked in the free skate. Sebestien was better, and Suguri was better than any of them, including Cohen. (Cohen of course deserved her silver medal because of her strong qualifying round performance and excellent placement in the short program.)

In my opinion Poykio, Rochette, and Sebestyen were undermarked in pre compared to Cohen, Kwan, and Ando in the LP, if you take all seven pre criteria into consideration.

 

[Kateri]

I just rewatched Fumie's FS - my gawd, should she have been in the top 3 for the free! Can't decide if she was better than Sasha - her jump content was about equal, but her choreo was much better than Sasha's, and she's so fast.

Seriously - people need to see this skate, esp those who "don't get" Fumie!!

k

 

[shine]

In my opinion Poykio, Rochette, and Sebestyen were undermarked in pre compared to Cohen, Kwan, and Ando in the LP, if you take all seven pre criteria into consideration.

AMEN!!!

 

[shine]

I just rewatched Fumie's FS - my gawd, should she have been in the top 3 for the free! Can't decide if she was better than Sasha - her jump content was about equal, but her choreo was much better than Sasha's, and she's so fast.

Seriously - people need to see this skate, esp those who "don't get" Fumie!!

k

I think Poykio and Rochette have better presentation than Suguri.