Should ISU introduce mandatory costumes? | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Should ISU introduce mandatory costumes?

TontoK

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I guess it depends on what one means by 'plenty'.
Referencing whole post.

Interesting points. I don't agree with everything, but it's thought-provoking.

Perhaps my impatience with the extraneous (for me) elements of our sport stems from age and experience.

As I grow older, my tolerance for unserious fluff dwindles. "Style over substance" is a real thing - not just in skating. I have no interest in the Milli Vanilli of the world, no matter what endeavor.
 

lariko

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I don’t think evolution of figure skating attire toward athletic gear is against style at all. We live in times when athletic attire is stylish, practical, beautiful and comfortable, without being garish or looking dated. There is athletic fashion for fashionistas, there are plain black shirts for purists. The sooner it becomes acceptable in figure skating competitions, the better imo. I hope one day ice-skating in a weirdo fake prom dress will be about as quaint as skating in a weirdo fake tuxedo.
 

el henry

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Well, I’m not sure it can be attributed to experience.

I have plenty of, ahem, experience, and I think costumes are part of the sport and a part of the sport I enjoy. I don’t consider it “style over substance”, I consider it my personal preference.

If I wanted to watch skaters reel off jumps in sweatpants, I’d watch another sport. :) I can’t ever imagine figure skating trending toward that, and for me, it would be a shame if it did.

Also, for me personally, criticizing costumes is part of the sport. I crticize men in Ross Dress for Less costumes because I don’t like them. Some of Nathan’s outfits, Jason’s bowling shirt, whatever. Not my jam. And I will say so. :biggrin:
 

mrrice

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The Blessing and Course of artistic sports, is that it can truly change froweek to week based on where the judging panel has been trained. For Me, Team Russia was the Clear Winner at the event. However, they had lost to Japan, and Canada earlier in the season. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmzntL6g2Xg
 

Lurker11

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If a woman wants to wear leggings and a t-shirt it should be allowed and she shouldn't be penalised for it, but if someone wears something she looks great in, the cut is flattering, it's colourful and exciting then if she receives inflated marks then that's how it should be. She went that extra length to make an impression on the audience. Male figure skating I think is different that is much more an athletic endeavour and jump show, female figure skating from a mature figure skating can be something sensual.

There are plenty of sports out there where appearance does not matter one little bit (any sport without a subjective judging element). I don't think a sport should be overhauled to accommodate a minority of people involved in it.
 

TontoK

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If a woman wants to wear leggings and a t-shirt it should be allowed and she shouldn't be penalised for it, but if someone wears something she looks great in, the cut is flattering, it's colourful and exciting then if she receives inflated marks then that's how it should be. She went that extra length to make an impression on the audience. Male figure skating I think is different that is much more an athletic endeavour and jump show, female figure skating from a mature figure skating can be something sensual.

There are plenty of sports out there where appearance does not matter one little bit (any sport without a subjective judging element). I don't think a sport should be overhauled to accommodate a minority of people involved in it.

This mindset is exactly what I refer to in my previous complaints.
 

yume

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Personally, a pretty dress won't make me forget bad jumps, spins or choreo and it certainly won't prevent me to talk about all those flaws. Even for my faves. It isn't because i see something gorgeous that the same eyes won't see flawed things. So style over substance isn't a thing for me.

Pretty privilege is a thing but it apply more to the whole human than a mere costume.
It think some skaters may escape harsh comments or get more sympathy because of their general looks. Not because they dressed nicely.
 

el henry

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If a woman wants to wear leggings and a t-shirt it should be allowed and she shouldn't be penalised for it, but if someone wears something she looks great in, the cut is flattering, it's colourful and exciting then if she receives inflated marks then that's how it should be. She went that extra length to make an impression on the audience. Male figure skating I think is different that is much more an athletic endeavour and jump show, female figure skating from a mature figure skating can be something sensual.

There are plenty of sports out there where appearance does not matter one little bit (any sport without a subjective judging element). I don't think a sport should be overhauled to accommodate a minority of people involved in it.


Afraid that I disagree about the reason for costumes.

I don't follow the ladies (although I can appreciate the beautiful costumes the Korean ladies wear for example) but I don't like costumes, for men, women, or whoever, because it makes skaters look "pretty" or "sensual", heaven forbid. I don't watch any skater for those reasons and I don't like costumes for those reasons.

Costumes are part of presentation in figure skating. Figure skating is a judged sport. Presentation is a judged mark. Therefore, costumes are part of the *sport*. I'll say it again. Costumes are part and parcel of the sport. Sport sport sport sport sport:biggrin:

Costumes on men are wonderful, add to the viewing experience for this figure skating fan, and frankly, I can never see enough of the effort that the Japanese men put into their costumes or of Donovan Carrillo bling.

All part of the sport. :)
 

surimi

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It looks I'll again be in the middle, opinon-wise, as is my wont.
We live in times when athletic attire is stylish, practical, beautiful and comfortable, without being garish or looking dated.
But who decides what classifies as garish and dated? Many like what someone else considers ghastly, and vice versa. Maybe the skaters themselves like those costumes, since most wear adorned ones and are willing to pay for them. I refuse to believe they're all brainwashed into wearing them by their coaches, judges, and the audience.

The sooner it becomes acceptable in figure skating competitions, the better imo.
But it is, isn't it? I recall Kostner wearing a loosely fitting lime green unitard that looked quite comfortable, years ago. AFAIK, noone docked points from her for it. If more skaters don't wear unitards, I suppose they have their reasons for that, and that's okay and it's their right to choose whatever they want to wear.
If a woman wants to wear leggings and a t-shirt it should be allowed and she shouldn't be penalised for it, but if someone wears something she looks great in, the cut is flattering, it's colourful and exciting then if she receives inflated marks then that's how it should be. She went that extra length to make an impression on the audience. Male figure skating I think is different that is much more an athletic endeavour and jump show, female figure skating from a mature figure skating can be something sensual.
I disagree with the double standards here. Both men and women should IMO strive for both artistry and athleticism. For me, jumps alone, or music+looks alone, don't make FS. I don't want male skating pursue hard jumps and little more (until their knees, hips and ankles are done in in one Olympic season), and female skating focus on looks or, heaven forbid, on being 'sensual' for the judges and audience's eyes; that's just creepy and I hope I misunderstood your comment.

One thing that can't disappear fast enough is the necessity for skaters (especially the female ones) to come to*practice* wearing full make-up and all that. I vividly recall a well-known skater complaining about it, though I cannot recall who - maybe someone remembers? The skater was saying all girls had to get up incredibly early to get their makeup done just for practice, and that's very wrong.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Why wouldn't we see a program like that one?

What made it a great program? I'd say it was the innovative and interesting choreography and her interpretation of the music.

If you think it was the dress, then you could put that dress on anyone for any program and be equally pleased.

I agree that the choreo and interpretation was what made it a great program, but I disagree that a simple black dress instead of the costume she chose would have given the program the same impact/character.

Here's another way of putting on it. What if, hypothetically, Eva's colourful dress became the "mandatory" dress for all women? If the dress shouldn't have any effect on the program's impact/presentation, if someone was skating to Carmen or Black Swan, wearing that Baiana dress wouldn't make a difference or prevent it from being a great program (IMO, it would)?
 

el henry

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One thing that can't disappear fast enough is the necessity for skaters (especially the female ones) to come to*practice* wearing full make-up and all that. I vividly recall a well-known skater complaining about it, though I cannot recall who - maybe someone remembers? The skater was saying all girls had to get up incredibly early to get their makeup done just for practice, and that's very wrong.

It was Gabriella Papadakis.

To be fair, she was not talking about all women skaters, but ice dancers. Ice dancers tend to come to practice in full costume. But it shouldn't happen in any event.

The ladies skaters that I have seen practice live, wearing practice gear, were not, to my untrained eye, wearing full on competition makeup.
 

Flying Feijoa

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Costumes are part of presentation of figure skating. Presentation is a judged mark. Therefore, costumes are part of the *sport*. I'll say it again. Costumes are part and parcel of the sport. Sport sport sport sport sport

I think skaters should be able to compete in whatever they prefer for their own comfort, self-expression and confidence. This means plain training-gear-like clothes for some, sparkly embroidery for others. Their sporting performance is the priority; wearing something nice should be seen as a favour to the audience, not an obligation. In an ideal world they shouldn't have to worry about the judges' opinions, because unless there is a technical violation, the judges should be evaluating their skating alone (although this is easier said than done).

Costumes should be part of the sport in the same way as the habit of throwing wrapped flowers and stuffed toys: for the skaters and the audience, not the judges. (In the same vein I'm totally fine with fan discussions of costumes, as we aren't the ones giving marks!)

One thing that can't disappear fast enough is the necessity for skaters (especially the female ones) to come to*practice* wearing full make-up and all that. I vividly recall a well-known skater complaining about it, though I cannot recall who - maybe someone remembers? The skater was saying all girls had to get up incredibly early to get their makeup done just for practice, and that's very wrong.
I think this is more of an ice dance thing... Based on what I saw at SCI this year, the female singles/pairs skaters dressed like their male counterparts (minimal makeup, plain clothes) while all the ice dancers were in full costume.
Practicing a couple of times in full costume might be useful as a 'dress rehearsal' to assess the risk of wardrobe malfunctions (clothes getting caught by blades etc.) Not sure about the point of the makeup though.
 

yume

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Then there are skaters like Satoko Miyahara who was pacticing not only with full on make up but also with her competition costumes (under Hamada).

It was like being in competition mode all the time (and she was always doing all the elements). May be one of the ingredients of her consistency.

But i don't understand those who show up in training gear with make up. Maybe because they don't want to end on dark twitter if their skin isn't perfect.
I definitely remember some people talking about Wakaba's acne.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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Then there are skaters like Satoko Miyahara who was pacticing not only with full on make up but also with her competition costumes (under Hamada).

It was like being in competition mode all the time (and she was always doing all the elements). May be one of the ingredients of her consistency.

But i don't understand those who show up in training gear with make up. Maybe because they don't want to end on dark twitter if their skin isn't perfect.
I definitely remember some people talking about Wakaba's acne.

I would think skaters don't compete in their costumes every day in practice because they wouldn't want to tatter them (and costumes are expensive). Also... some days you don't want to train in all the frills and just prefer to train in what you're comfortable in.
 

CanadianSkaterGuy

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I was talking about competitions practices.
Ohhhh... yeah, in that context it makes sense to practice the program in the costume. Although there is still the risk of messing up the costume prior to the competition and if there's a rip or something it can be hard to fix.
 

TontoK

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Ohhhh... yeah, in that context it makes sense to practice the program in the costume. Although there is still the risk of messing up the costume prior to the competition and if there's a rip or something it can be hard to fix.
But I don't think it's the competition costumes for the most part. I think they have entirely different sets of costumes, just for practices at competitions, which is ridiculous.

Here's an old video that demonstrates. It's a practice video from the WC where Torville and Dean skated to Barnum. So... 1983, I think... Anyway, they're wearing mainly black costumes for the practice, but when competing the program, they wore mainly white.

 

surimi

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Although there is still the risk of messing up the costume prior to the competition and if there's a rip or something it can be hard to fix.

That happens at times. And interesting that faced with the dilemma of either skating his SP in his gala costume, or black training outfit, the skater it happened to, at a competition I attended, went for the fancier gala costume, saving the black comfortable clothes for the gala.

I have never seen different sets of costumes for practices and competition with my own eyes. The skaters I saw were wearing one, or the other in practices. I've only attended competitions in the last 6 years though.
 

Weathergal

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I agree with those who say "Keep the costumes please!".

If a skater wishes to wear something more athletic-looking because it fits their program and/or their comfort level, that's A-OK of course! But to mandate no more figure skating dresses, etc. would take away part of what makes figure skating what it is.

When Malinin performed his quad axel at Skate America, I gasped and was nearly teary eyed, knowing what an incredible achievement it was! I love the excitement of the 3A in the women's competitions and am glad more women are doing them. And I love a good Ina Bauer (ex. Junhwan Cha) or spread eagle (ex. Brian Boitano, Jonathan Cassar).

But I also love a program that moves me or makes me laugh or makes me think. Part of that art is obviously the music and choreography, the commitment to the performance, and so on - and I think that the costume enhances that and sometimes even helps to tell the story.

I love both the sport and the art of figure skating, and I think that combination is what makes figure skating so unique and so loved.

Also I don't think it's bad that many skating fans are knowledgeable about top costume designers, as some have mentioned earlier in the thread. What the designers do is pretty amazing, and they should be recognized for their talents. I don't think it's the costumes and bling that really cause people to throw in the "it's not a sport discussion" as was stated earlier, so much as the judged aspect. What I've heard far more frequently from people who are sports fans in general is that they put it into the same group as artistic gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, diving, trampoline, etc. - they say that the judging makes the sport part questionable. Costumes are rarely, if ever, mentioned.

And yes, sometimes costumes - and whole programs for that matter - are, uh, well odd taste wise, but sometimes that can be part of the fun, too.

I also think that restricting costumes would alienate far more fans than it wouldn't, and I don't believe that's the best thing for figure skating right now.
 
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WednesdayMarch

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One thing that can't disappear fast enough is the necessity for skaters (especially the female ones) to come to*practice* wearing full make-up and all that. I vividly recall a well-known skater complaining about it, though I cannot recall who - maybe someone remembers? The skater was saying all girls had to get up incredibly early to get their makeup done just for practice, and that's very wrong.
At the recent MK John Wilson Trophy, my friend complained loudly that not all the skaters wore full costume for the practices. She said that it's customary for skaters at competition practice to wear full costume and she likes to see it. Personally, I'm with Gabriella Papadakis on this. I don't particularly want to see full costume and make-up until the actual performance. If I've seen it in practice several times, the wow factor has gone. Yes, they need to do a few run throughs in the costumes to ensure that they are comfortable and work for the effect they are supposed to produce, but that can be done during training at their home rink. IMHO, I like to see the skaters looking tidy and business-like at competition practice. It's pleasing to my eye if couples are in the same colour but that's it. And nobody wants to go through the time-consuming make up routine, surely? Mind you, having stayed in the same hotel as most of the skaters, I did notice that all the girls appeared to wear full make up at all times. As do the younger women working in my local supermarket, even when they have to start their shift at 5am. Massive false eye lashes, contouring, the lot. I think that's a generational thing and I thank the gods that I'm too old for that!
 
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