Signature moves skaters are known for

[Magill]

I don't think signature moves need to be literally unique to a skater but rather associated with them by a big part of the audience either because they performed them often enough to be considered a special part of their repertoire, or because of a special quality that made them striking and memorable. As you can see in the 2018 part of the thread, and as is widely known, hydroblade has been generally considered the signature move of Yuzuru Hanyu, while cantilever - the signature move of Shoma Uno, while none of them were the first or the only one ever to perform these moves. Ina Bauer was Shizuka Arakawa's signature move and is strongly associated with her, especially in Japan, though obviously many other skaters would perform it and in fact it is quite common. Same with Jason's Russian splits - they are his signature for me too, though obviously he's neither the first one, nor the only one to perform them.

 

[gmyers]

Alysa Liu triple axel

 

[ladyjane]

Don't forget Junhwan's Ina Bauer (it always has me salivating), I'll definitely remember that one!

 

[yfan1]

Mao Asada used to do this very difficult entry into her 2A, where she used to be on an S-curve. Outside spread eagle leading with her right foot, then step onto her left forward outside edge for the jump.

She used to do another very difficult entry, double threes power pull into her 2A.

Not sure any of those is enough to be considered 'signature', but for me she really had fantastic entries, while still maintaining the overall jump quality of that element. Worth mentioning at least. Others have tried to copy the double threes powerpull into axel, but really not managed to do it as well (outside Jeremy Abbott, maybe).

 

[gsk8]

I don't think signature moves need to be literally unique to a skater but rather associated with them by a big part of the audience either because they performed them often enough to be considered a special part of their repertoire, or because of a special quality that made them striking and memorable. As you can see in the 2018 part of the thread, and as is widely known, hydroblade has been generally considered the signature move of Yuzuru Hanyu, while cantilever - the signature move of Shoma Uno, while none of them were the first or the only one ever to perform these moves. Ina Bauer was Shizuka Arakawa's signature move and is strongly associated with her, especially in Japan, though obviously many other skaters would perform it and in fact it is quite common. Same with Jason's Russian splits - they are his signature for me too, though obviously he's neither the first one, nor the only one to perform them.

This thread isn't about the "first one who did the move" but rather what "signature move" a skater is known for

Eight years has passed since this thread began, so I thought it would be fun to revive and add new skaters and the moves they are known for.

 

[skatingfan4ever]

Miura/Kihara lunge entry and lunge exit lift. Even though they didn't do it in their last season.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Don't forget Junhwan's Ina Bauer (it always has me salivating), I'll definitely remember that one!

His legs are not in a position for purists, but his bent back is beautiful indeed, and "signature" indeed.

 

[TallyT]

Alysa Liu triple axel

Quite a few people have signature 3As...

hydroblade has been generally considered the signature move of Yuzuru Hanyu,

One of them - he has quite a few but I think the hydroblade (and his glorious 3A) are the most signature and it has only gotten better and more beautiful since he went pro.

while cantilever - the signature move of Shoma Uno,

Definitely his, and imo one of Trusova's (I like Shoma's better but when I think of Trusova I think of her quads and her cantilever.)

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

Quite a few people have signature 3As...


One of them - he has quite a few but I think the hydroblade (and his glorious 3A) are the most signature and it has only gotten better and more beautiful since he went pro.


Definitely his, and imo one of Trusova's (I like Shoma's better but when I think of Trusova I think of her quads and her cantilever.)

I had renounced regarding Yuzuru Hanyu, precisely because he has so many... For some, he's far from alone doing them and many skaters can, such as the Pistol Lounge, for some others he's really the only one who can do it. There's the intermediate situation too, he used to be alone jumping a 3A from a Back Counter, then Kévin Aymoz managed to jump it too, as a tribute to his "idol" (and I melt!)
There was a video linked in the initial phase of this thread,

Hey, there's a video devoted to Yuzu's signature moves at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aair5RawPV0

Henni147 was to post another video with more recent signature moves:

Thanks for sharing!

There was a discussion about Yuzu's best signature move after PyeongChang and I just realized how many incredible and iconic signature moves Yuzu has: Hydroblading, Ina Bauer, Pistol, bc-3A, delayed 1A, Biellmann,... and I thought:
HOLY MOLY :shocked: That's enough content for an entire clip!
When I uploaded it on YouTube, I had to revise my statement: it's enough content for two or three clips
In other words: Yuzu has no designated signature move. He's a signature skater. Full package Q.E.D.


#Sidenote: As soon as Yuzu has mastered the 4A, I promise to cut Part II :agree:
Booked moves:
4A of course
Ice-Kiss-Hydroblading
Super deep sit spin
His legendary butt spin
Seimei special move (on ice and on podium)
Travelling Camel
Camouflage-3F
Highkick jumps
...
If you have more ideas, pls post!!!

But they didn't have time, either in video or in her Yuzuru Hanyu's Legacy site, they did such a great job on Wikipedia which is so demanding!

Yuzuru Hanyu keeps growing his Twizzle collection (including Sit Twizzles, he's done some since his Novice era I think), his Hydroblades one, his original and/or impossible entries into/transitions out of Elements, expressive Spins, and has added many moves which could be called signature. His Dragon Spin (Camel with a specific broken leg and arm and back positions?) since GIFT at Tokyo Dome, I wonder if we can also name moves which I think only he does but that back bent Spiral with forward extended leg I may not have included because it was just one of the many innovative moves in one self-choreographed program, but Donovan Carrillo has it twice in his Free Skate for next season (and I'm melting!), so could it be one?

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Also, for some skaters their perfection in a jump, particularly (Quadruple) Lutz, has been evoked before Yuzuru Hanyu jumped it, and although elusive it happened to surpass all other 4Lz jumped before... So here's a video of the Top Three (in Quadruple Lutz, not Triple):

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I also think that Yon-Axel (4A) has already to be mentioned, even if it's not achieved yet (but nobody else has achieved it yet, nor rotated it more than him, so he's still ahead apart for landing it in public).

 

[yfan1]

That's an old video - I'd say Malinin has the third best 4Lz behind Jin and Kolyada. About as much height and distance as Hanyu's, shorter set up, slightly better air position, and does transitions.

I don't think we're ever going to see jumps like Jin's and Kolyada's 4Lz ever again - especially the amount of distance Jin achieved on it.

On that note, I see there are several nice jumps mentioned earlier in this thread.

Colin Van der Ween: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMx1IW0F2VE&t=82s

Double Walley.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

That's an old video - I'd say Malinin has the third best 4Lz behind Jin and Kolyada. About as much height and distance as Hanyu's, shorter set up, slightly better air position, and does transitions.

I don't think we're ever going to see jumps like Jin's and Kolyada's 4Lz ever again - especially the amount of distance Jin achieved on it.

On that note, I see there are several nice jumps mentioned earlier in this thread.

Colin Van der Ween: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMx1IW0F2VE&t=82s

Double Walley.

I still wonder why, while Single Walley jumps are admitted among Transitions (and Yuzuru Hanyu has had some), they can't be counted as jumps anymore in the IJS system? As all jumps, it can be ugly but then, we all see very ugly other jumps, sometimes called, or uncalled with some skaters, so, where's the difference?

I'm surprised by your declaration comparing Ilia Malinin's and Yuzuru Hanyu's 4Lz. Ilyi Malinin's take-off is good, Yuzuru Hanyu's is to dream of (as are Boyang Jin's and Mikhail Kolyada's in a slightly lesser measure, that's why they're the Top 3); they're all high and long but I don't have measurement, they all have a short set-up, they all have a very good air position (I would be pleased to know in what Ilia Malinin's is better than any of the three best)... and they're fully rotated or lacking less than a quarter of a rotation, which Ilia Malinin have ceased to be, this with zero prerotation? As to transition, you know, the entry step isn't counted as a transition.

lunnarias on Instagram: "Yuzuru Hanyu's Lutz This is the first thread I made over a year and a half ago. It was short and maybe too general, but a good introduction to the physics of a true lutz. Maybe a bit too enthusiastic too, but I still stand b

629 likes, 10 comments - fsphysics on September 12, 2021: "Yuzuru Hanyu's Lutz This is the first thread I made over a year and a half ago. It was short and maybe too general, but a good introduction to the physics of a true lutz. Maybe a bit too enthusiastic too, but I still stand by the fact...

www.instagram.com

This is why, if the excellence in an Element is accepted here as making a move a Signature one, I think that his Quadruple Lutz has its place.

 

[yfan1]

I'm surprised by your declaration comparing Ilia Malinin's and Yuzuru Hanyu's 4Lz. Ilyi Malinin's take-off is good, Yuzuru Hanyu's is to dream of (as are Boyang Jin's and Mikhail Kolyada's in a slightly lesser measure, that's why they're the Top 3);

For one, a take off where we start saying 'zero pre rotation is some amazing quality in a jump' is a silly one. All four have correct take offs.

You can quite literally see Hanyu doesn't land fully backwards like Jin and Kolyada due to this take off (although Kolyada also does the same take off, he gets enough height to resolve it. Jin does somewhere between 45-90 degrees, depending - it varied with him).

they're all high and long but I don't have measurement,

We do have measurements with Ilia's at the Olympics. And we have Jin's.

Kolyada's at CoC 2017 was one of the highest jumps ever.

Hanyu's isn't as long as Jin's. It's not as high as Kolyada's. That makes it fall into the lower category.

BTW, it's Hanyu's take off and body position on the take off that usually caused this:

they all have a very good air position

Hanyu doesn't have good air position. He attempted it thrice internationally, and it wasn't good any of those three times.

Very interesting that the video maker used a video of Hanyu's from warm up, BTW. Have to wonder how many of Jin's and Kolyada's were better in practice than the ones they managed to execute in competition, right?

they all have a short set-up,

Ilia's is clearly shorter than all three of them, but it's not like I'm placing it ahead of Jin's or Kolyada's? I'm only using it as a measure against Hanyu's. There are other things to be valued more.

As to transition, you know, the entry step isn't counted as a transition.

No, but exits are.

All good now?

ETA: Did that person say Hanyu, who attempted it thrice and landed it twice, has a '66.7% success rate', whereas Kolyada who attempted it a hell lot of more times had a '9.5% success rate' when he also landed it twice? Christ.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

For one, a take off where we start saying 'zero pre rotation is some amazing quality in a jump' is a silly one. All four have correct take offs.

You can quite literally see Hanyu doesn't land fully backwards like Jin and Kolyada due to this take off (although Kolyada also does the same take off, he gets enough height to resolve it. Jin does somewhere between 45-90 degrees, depending - it varied with him).

We do have measurements with Ilia's at the Olympics. And we have Jin's.

Kolyada's at CoC 2017 was one of the highest jumps ever.

Hanyu's isn't as long as Jin's. It's not as high as Kolyada's. That makes it fall into the lower category.

BTW, it's Hanyu's take off and body position on the take off that usually caused this:

Hanyu doesn't have good air position. He attempted it thrice internationally, and it wasn't good any of those three times.

Very interesting that the video maker used a video of Hanyu's from warm up, BTW. Have to wonder how many of Jin's and Kolyada's were better in practice than the ones they managed to execute in competition, right?


Ilia's is clearly shorter than all three of them, but it's not like I'm placing it ahead of Jin's or Kolyada's? I'm only using it as a measure against Hanyu's. There are other things to be valued more.


No, but exits are.

All good now?

ETA: Did that person say Hanyu, who attempted it thrice and landed it twice, has a '66.7% success rate', whereas Kolyada who attempted it a hell lot of more times had a '9.5% success rate' when he also landed it twice? Christ.

One take off is good, two are excellent, one is super-excellent. Now, if for you there's only two categories, correct and not correct, well, yes, all tick the box. Have you heard about delayed rotation? Yes it's harder, yes it makes it more difficult to end the rotation, but it's more beautiful, it used to be a "bullet"... Don't you realise that asserting that something is less good because it's more difficult isn't a very valid reasoning?

So, we have measurements for one jump each for two of these four Skaters. And?

I have asked you in what Ilia Malinin had a better air position than any of the three others, this includes Yuzuru Hanyu... Repeating an assertion in another form isn't an answer...

Most commenters of Yuzuru Hanyu's 4Lz use this video from 2019 Grand Prix Final warm-up because the camera angle is the best. Are you aware that the 6min warm up isn't practice?

One could measure the set-up durations, have you done it? What were the results?

Exits are transitions indeed...

Actually I think that Boyang Jin's 4Lz is more his signature move than Yuzuru Hanyu's is his own, and his consistency and the duration of his ability to jump it have no peer. Yuzuru Hanyu had his again last year, eight years after his first, but his is too elusive to be compared in this respect.

Spoiler: Video out of topic in a Signature Moves thread!

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[TallyT]

Who would you say has a spiral as signature move? Me, I love Sasha Cohen's.

I also think we will see less and less signature moves, as the requirements of shorter programs and higher tech means that there is less room for individuality (look at the recent threads on how copypaste programs are at the minute.)

 

[yfan1]

One take off is good, two are excellent, one is super-excellent.

You know, engaging with the video footage of a skater is a better way to discuss things?

Kolyada has the same take off as Hanyu. I do not see you claiming "it happened to surpass all other 4Lz jumped before", or telling people why it's not better than Hanyu's.

Quite literally nobody in their right mind ever says "oh this skater has 45 degrees of pre rotation! this is a worse Lutz than this skater with 30 degrees of pre rotation!"

Have you heard about delayed rotation? Yes it's harder, yes it makes it more difficult to end the rotation, but it's more beautiful, it used to be a "bullet"... Don't you realise that asserting that something is less good because it's more difficult isn't a very valid reasoning?

Do you even know what Delayed Rotation is? Clearly not.

Hanyu doesn't have delayed rotation. If you look at him, Kolyada, and Jin, they all close the same way when they get up in the air. So either he's better than because of this bullet, or he's not.

So, we have measurements for one jump each for two of these four Skaters. And?

And people use their eyes, and can say that jumps that are clearly smaller than others in distance and height, are clearly leaning in the air, and are clearly having trouble with proper landings aren't any good.

I have asked you in what Ilia Malinin had a better air position than any of the three others, this includes Yuzuru Hanyu... Repeating an assertion in another form isn't an answer...

I literally didn't say Malinin has a better air position than Jin and Kolyada.

If you cannot see Hanyu has a massive lean in the air in all his competitive attempts, then I don't know what to say. Malinin doesn't.

Most commenters of Yuzuru Hanyu's 4Lz use this video from 2019 Grand Prix Final warm-up because the camera angle is the best. Are you aware that the 6min warm up isn't practice?

Are you aware that Jin and Kolyada also did 6 minute warm ups? Are you aware that they also landed 4Lz in warm ups? Are you aware this is a very useless form of comparison?

Are you aware that people other than Yuzuru Hanyu exist? Are you aware that people can be better than Yuzuru Hanyu at something?

Yuzuru Hanyu had his again last year, eight years after his first, but his is too elusive to be compared in this respect.

Yeah, Jin had his outside a music video that cuts between two phases of a jump.

 

[NanaPat]

I believe that several skaters can have the same "signature move", especially if those skaters are from different eras.

For example, I would consider the 3A a signature move for several women skaters: Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, Mao Asada, Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, and Amber Glen (but not Alysa Liu). This is NOT to invite a comparison of whose was better; it is the association of the move with the skater that make it a signature move. Usually a move is associated with a skater because the move is rare and/or the skater's execution of it is of high quality and/or the skater was the first to execute it. For me, it could be any or all of these. The only necessary part of a "signature move" is that the skater uses it in a large number of programs over a long period of time and that fans look forward to seeing it.

I also believe that a skater can have more than one signature move: for example Roman Sadovsky is known for his 4Sal and his spins.

What I don't believe is that a skater, however good, can have a humungously large number of signature moves. When it goes as far as "every step you take, every move you make" then it's just their skating, not a "signature". A signature is a highlight, and highlights by their very nature stand out from the program. To be cohesive, a program should flow and not just be a series of gasp-worthy tricks.

 

[Magill]

Geez, sadly some people will never miss an opportunity to go after a skater of their choice and try to diminish them

Anyway, in my personal opinion, jumps as such, or jumps entries or exits, are not really signature moves at all, with maybe the exception of a delayed axel. In my opinion, a signature move is something a casual fan is able to notice, tell apart from other elements, remember and recognize the next time they see it, and that's how it becomes really associated with this particular skater for the general public. Speaking from experience, anyone can notice a hydroblade, a cantilever, an Ina Bauer, a spiral or a death spiral, etc. and tell them apart from other elements even if they cannot name them. This is also true for a delayed axel which is instantly noticeable as a completely different type of jump even for a layperson, even if they cannot tell exactly why. That's how it may become a skater's "signature" - Yuzuru Hanyu's, in this case.

OTOH, differentiating between lutzes, flips, regular axels, toe jumps etc., their number of rotations, or entries to or exits from them, is not really something a casual fan would notice or care for much unless really spectacular for some obvious reason - that's why I put delayed axels aside from all the other jumps. Same goes true for such features of a jump as speed, height, axis etc. I think if you have to measure it to tell the difference, it means nothing for the general public attention and is of no interest to them at all. A move is "impressive" for a layperson or not, and that's it. Being it a signature move is not decided upon by a technical panel, but by the public at large, and their choice is much more concerned with aesthetics and it being "impressive" and "spectacular" than with it meeting any bullets that any expert could put forward.

Still, I'd say a backflip is a signature move. No matter if you like backflips or not (I don't), they are easy to tell apart from other elements and noticeable and recognizable as such. So, yes, these are signature moves for Surya Bonaly, Adam Siao Him Fa and Ilia Malinin.

 

[yfan1]

What I don't believe is that a skater, however good, can have a humungously large number of signature moves. When it goes as far as "every step you take, every move you make" then it's just their skating, not a "signature". A signature is a highlight, and highlights by their very nature stand out from the program. To be cohesive, a program should flow and not just be a series of gasp-worthy tricks.

I agree insofar that a skater can popularize a skating style with extravagant moves too, though, and that's fine and welcome. In that case, the style is their signature.

 

[yfan1]

Same goes true for such features of a jump as speed, height, axis etc. I think if you have to measure it to tell the difference, it means nothing for the general public attention and is of no interest to them at all.

Yes, I agree. It's why I think this jump:

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Is something no one should be claiming as a signature move for Hanyu, that's better than the ones that were factually better than this execution and all of his others in competition.

One of course may claim that the general public also doesn't care about whether a jump was jumped in the warm ups, practices, TCC rink, or a music video with a cut in between, and you'd be right there too. We live in a very strange world.

Kolyada and Boyang have the best Quad Lutzes ever: deep outside edges, very minimal pre-rotation, unbelievable amplitude, rotations completed entirely in the air.

Since nobody is trying to do the jump like that, I'm perfectly fine with its current base value. I don't think Malinin's 4A here is superior to the best 4Lz's we've seen; he would definitely fall if trying to do a 4Lutz like Boyang Jin was doing it in 2016, or like Mikhail Kolyada was doing in 2017, so the GOE for this element does need to be kept under control.

Boyang Jin's is the type that gets bigger reactions, exactly because of its massive amplitude, speed, and total completeness of rotation.

Great breakthrough performance for Kolyada. His quad lutz is so great, he still has room left in the in air by the time he is fully backwards! That's how jumps should be at their best. He doesn't get the same length on the jump as Boyang does but that's okay.

Just from a quick search on an account that tends to engage with the actual skating on this website.

Maybe this is too much of an expert opinion as well? But no, I think some level of knowledge is required, and even beyond that - axis, speed, height, distance *gasp* - figure into an impression of the jump.

Fun by the way to constantly see conversations that go 1. I have stats 2. actually, stats don't matter, I have *impressions*.

If you don't care about jump quality, then maybe stop claiming something's better than others, and then bringing up pre rotation?

 

[TallyT]

This all seems to be devolving into more of "is this the best of the best" rather than "is this something that this skater is particularly known for/a move that is linked in many fans name with a particular skater" - both of the latter, of course, are a part (not all, but a part) of why Yuzuru has a lot of them, people pick out and wait for so many moments and movements and they were and still are so damn good and satisfying. And why I mentioned Sasha and spirals.

Signature moves, to me (and me, I don't insist others should agree) are those the fans learn to hope for from a skater (which is why no one imo has a signature cartwheel or, since Bonaly, backflip, that the damn things are now everywhere like chicken pox and everyone does 'em) and which give them that magic "ahhhhhh" moment. That's why imo Boyang has them above higher ranked skaters, and why the 3A from Alysa Liu that somrone mentioned - which I don't see as anywhere near the best even among women - does seem to have that moment, so it counts.

It's not who's the 'best' (whatever that means in the day and age) at this or that move. It's who makes that move their own in the fans' eyes. YMMV.