Skate America Preview

[R.D.]

I agree, though- in the end it doesn't matter who is or is not there. An OGM will stay an OGM and a World championship will stay a World championship. No one is bothering to put an "asterisk" next to Arakawa's OGM win or Meissner's WC win. No! They are fairly labeled the Olympic and World champion, respectively.

 

[Mathman]

I really do not understand the objection to this award. You have a series of skating contests. Whoever ends up with the most points wins a prize.

If that person is Sokolova, then it is Sokolova. No matter what she has or has not done since 2003, she won this prize.

Just like there is no reason to put an asterisk beside the name of the winner of the world championship, there is no reason to put an asterisk beside the name of the winner of this competition, either.

 

[R.D.]

There will be no asterisk but is it a big enough title for people to remember? Or more importantly, care about?

 

[Mathman]

I think it is the intention and hope of the ISU eventually to make it so. This may take a number of years, even if all goes well with the financial structure of the sport.

In other sports people do like to be the number one ranked tennis player, or the top money winner on the golf tour.

 

[R.D.]

If I were them, actually I would make a serious attempt to try to equate the 4CC Championships with the European championships, even if it means splitting it into two separate events. GP titles will never be on the level of World/European/National titles but the 4CC really needs to make a name for itself. Another event that no one really cares about and it's supposedly bigger than the GP.

 

[Mathman]

If I were them, actually I would make a serious attempt to try to equate the 4CC Championships with the European championships....

I think this is their attempt to do this. And again, if they had more money, they might eventually be able to pull it off.

If you wanted to advance up the standings ladder, and if you wanted to win the $45,000 prize for doing so, winning Four Continents gives you 840 points, compared to only 800 for the Grand Prix Final and 400 for an individual Grand Prix event. (Euros is also 840 points and Worlds/Olympics is 1200.)

So for instance an American skater who did pretty well in the Grand Prix and has ambitions of making the podium at Worlds, too, might decide, hey, if I don't do Four Continents I'm throwing away my $45,000 bonus.

Unfortunately, you can't make an event prestigious just by declaring it to be so, so it's really up to the skaters to make Four Continents into a big deal if they want to.

 

[Mathman]

PS. Take Katy Taylor (rim shot!). By winning Four Continents last year she zoomed from 44th on the rankings list (just behind Elena Glebova and Idora Hegel) all the way up to 25th, between Sarah Meir and Bebe Liang. So there you go.

 

[attyfan]

Maybe, then, the ranking bonus will help make skaters choose to go to 4CCs. It needs something to catch up to Euros in prestige -- and nothing can be done about the fact Euros is so much older!

 

[lisadotdash]

Wasn't Tara Lipinski injured (not just in pain but injured) and skating away on pain killers to her medal.

 

[krenseby]

Don't forget

No, not quite the same. Lambiel, Arakawa and Meissner all won major titles, and they had to have the best skate(s) to win them.

Sokolova (should she win the money) hasn't even medaled at Worlds since 2003. The last competition she won was Skate America 2005 (by a hair) and she didn't even win the FS. A month later, she finished 6th at TEB.

You are being very unfair to Sokolova. Do not forget that she almost medaled at Worlds in 2006 due to her 3rd place in the LP.

That kind of a performance at Worlds - 3rd place in LP, almost close to medaling - makes somebody a top skater.

Take Michelle Kwan - her 2005 3rd place in the LP and 4th place overall - was lower than her usual accomplishments, but nothing to sneer at since she was still solidly in the top 4 and an inch away from the top 3.

I would say, the same applies to Sokolova. Not to mention to Fumie Suguri, Maria Butyrskaya, Miki Ando, all of whom finished fourth at some Worlds.

 

[momjudi]

[

Johnny Weir asked the USFSA not to assign him to Skate America because his coach, Priscilla Hill, is unable to be with him at the competition. Ms Hill is with her other skaters at regionals the same days as SA.

 

[slutskayafan21]

But then again, you could say the same thing about any method of awarding honors. Lambiel won the Plushenko-is-injured championship in Moscow. Arakawa won the Where's Kwan? championship in Torino.

Interesting that you would even attempt to put the impact of Plushenko missing the 2005 World Championships and Kwan's missing the 2006 Olympics in the same sentence, speaking from a competitive standpoint. I say this despite that I like Kwan's skating alot more then Plushenko's.

 

[chuckm]

You are being very unfair to Sokolova. Do not forget that she almost medaled at Worlds in 2006 due to her 3rd place in the LP.

That kind of a performance at Worlds - 3rd place in LP, almost close to medaling - makes somebody a top skater.

Sokolova bombed her QA and despite finishing 3rd in the SP and 3rd in the FS was 6.5 points out of 3rd place. In 2005, Kwan was only 0.37 points out of 3rd place and in retrospect, it seems she was skating with a painful injury.

The major difference between Sokolova and Kwan is that every year from 1995 through 2005, Kwan finished in the top 4 or better and had won 5 World Championships and 3 silver and one bronze medal, as well as two Olympic medals. Kwan was consistently a top skater.

Sokolova won one silver medal, in 2003, a year when Irina Slutskaya and Maria Butyrskaya did not compete. She was 10th at Worlds 2004, 7th at Worlds 2005, and 14th at the Torino Olympics.

Sorry, IMHO, a top skater is a CONSISTENT skater. Elena Sokolova is a lovely and charming person, but a consistent skater she is not.

 

[Mathman]

Interesting that you would even attempt to put the impact of Plushenko missing the 2005 World Championships and Kwan's missing the 2006 Olympics in the same sentence, speaking from a competitive standpoint.

The instant I clicked the "submit reply" button I knew I had said something stupid. As Red Dog pointed out, I should have said Meissner's win at Worlds in the absence of Slutskaya and Arakawa. (Even then not the same as Plushenko's withdrawal.)

I guess when it comes to Michelle I just can't help myself.

 

[chuckm]

BTW, at the time Michelle Kwan was competing and placing on the World podium, she never ended a season on the top of the ISU World Standings. She was lucky to be in the top 10. Irina Slutskaya wasn't near the top either after missing an entire GP season, even though she won 2005 Worlds. Same for Sasha Cohen, who missed a GP season with a back injury. Yet these 3 ladies were at the time the leading skaters of their day!

 

[slutskayafan21]

Sokolova bombed her QA and despite finishing 3rd in the SP and 3rd in the FS was 6.5 points out of 3rd place. In 2005, Kwan was only 0.37 points out of 3rd place and in retrospect, it seems she was skating with a painful injury.

The major difference between Sokolova and Kwan is that every year from 1995 through 2005, Kwan finished in the top 4 or better and had won 5 World Championships and 3 silver and one bronze medal, as well as two Olympic medals. Kwan was consistently a top skater.

Sokolova won one silver medal, in 2003, a year when Irina Slutskaya and Maria Butyrskaya did not compete. She was 10th at Worlds 2004, 7th at Worlds 2005, and 14th at the Torino Olympics.

Sorry, IMHO, a top skater is a CONSISTENT skater. Elena Sokolova is a lovely and charming person, but a consistent skater she is not.

I agree about Sokolova but I still remember her consistently exceptional jumping at the 2003 Worlds. Every single program all triples clean and the very difficult triple lutz-triple toe in every program. Even with her choreographic and performance flaws her silver that year was well earned. It was very impressive to see a skater landing a triple lutz-triple toe and all clean triples in 3 straight programs. Too bad she could not keep up anywhere near that level of jumping on a consistent basis. In 2004 she atleast was doing the triple lutz-triple toe in her programs later in the year, even if she was not doing clean performances anymore. Now she does not even try a triple-triple in hardly any of her programs.

 

[slutskayafan21]

The instant I clicked the "submit reply" button I knew I had said something stupid. As Red Dog pointed out, I should have said Meissner's win at Worlds in the absence of Slutskaya and Arakawa. (Even then not the same as Plushenko's withdrawal.)

I guess when it comes to Michelle I just can't help myself.

I know I was just being a tease. This last year was dissapointing with both Kwan and Asada missing the Olympics, then all of Kwan, Asada, Arakawa, and Slutskaya not at Worlds. You never got anything close to resembling a complete field with all the real players.

I did not mention Kim since her skating the juniors all year due to her age, and the senior age rule made perfect sense to me; obviously with Asada testing the waters of senior competition and proving herself to the extent she did, despite the age rule making her ineligable for Olympics and Worlds makes her absence more ominous.

 

[R.D.]

BTW, at the time Michelle Kwan was competing and placing on the World podium, she never ended a season on the top of the ISU World Standings. She was lucky to be in the top 10. Irina Slutskaya wasn't near the top either after missing an entire GP season, even though she won 2005 Worlds. Same for Sasha Cohen, who missed a GP season with a back injury. Yet these 3 ladies were at the time the leading skaters of their day!

Really? that's totally messed up! They really need to tweak the "standings" so that it more accurately reflects who is the best in the world. And once it becomes accurate, more people, including the skaters will put more stock into it.

 

[SeaniBu]

Sounds very similar to how they run the NASCAR and such, point standings. The value of said standings could also be determined by how often one dedicates themselves to compete or is invited. Accumulative isn't it?

What is the problem? And I feel the more they "tweak" something like that the more likely to loose integrity. IMO

 

[Mathman]

I agree with SeaniBu. You accumulate points over the course of a season for that season's point-total prize. If you don't skate in an event, you don't get any points for that event. What's the problem?