Skate Canada to allow any 2 athletes to compete together in ice dance, pairs

[4everchan]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/winter/figure-skating/skate-canada-updates-policy-ice-dance-pairs-1.6684286

Skate Canada has updated its policies so that ice dance or pairs teams competing domestically can be composed of any two athletes.

Canada's governing body of figure skating announced Tuesday that its definition of "team" for athletes training in the Podium Pathway will be revised to consisting of "two skaters."

The previous definition was one woman and one man.

Skate Canada said in a tweet that there are no new event categories, and any team can enter the pair or ice dance disciplines at any Skate Canada domestic event.

 

[yuumagical]

It's about time somebody took this sport into the 21st century in this regard.

I'm sure people will be concerned about the lack of male-male or female-female categories (or even nonbinary categories), but I feel that this is an important first step to gauge interest in those categories.

 

[yume]

It's about time somebody took this sport into the 21st century in this regard.

I'm sure people will be concerned about the lack of male-male or female-female categories (or even nonbinary categories), but I feel that this is an important first step to gauge interest in those categories.

To be honest, i can't picture a female throwing another female into a triple twist. Unless one of them is a transgender not on hormonal treatment. After all, i guess that this decision doesn't target only biological males and females. But i can picture a pair looking like an Uno and a buff Memola quading their way to the victory.
It will be interesting to see what domestic comps will look like. And what will look fair and unfair.

 

[el henry]

I can absolutely picture a cisgender woman throwing another woman, not that it matters. Or a cisgender man throwing another man. Or trans or non binary athletes.

And of course quadding alone should not be the reason that any skater, male, female or nonbinary, wins a comp.

What an excellent idea, bravo Skate Canada!

 

[ladyjane]

When I see the big difference in size/height just between males - look at the JGPF and GPF winners this year - I think everything is possible. I welcome this. I hope other countries follow.

 

[Seven Sisters]

To be honest, i can't picture a female throwing another female into a triple twist. Unless one of them is a transgender not on hormonal treatment. After all, i guess that this decision doesn't target only biological males and females. But i can picture a pair looking like an Uno and a buff Memola quading their way to the victory.
It will be interesting to see what domestic comps will look like. And what will look fair and unfair.

I think it’s much easier to imagine in ice dance. Sure there are lifts, but a variety of types are are allowed. I’ve seen all-female synchro teams do lifts.

 

[rain]

I actually already posted this story earlier in the Canadian Figure Skating threat in State of the Nations.

But will state here again that I think this is really progressive, even though it's only domestic competitions for now. It will give many more girls a chance, I think.

 

[NaVi]

I think a new discipline meant for single skaters to skate with one another(so more side by side jump focused) would be more workable for allowing for athletes of the same sex to compete with one another. And you could have two divisions by technical level(triples besides axel, quads and triple axels allowed) rather than by sex.

 

[kenboy123]

If other countries are not allowing this…I just don’t see how this is going to work

 

[el henry]

If other countries are not allowing this…I just don’t see how this is going to work

Should a same sex pair win Canadian Nats it would seem to me it would be treated as if a 13 year old won senior Nats: the next finishers would go to Worlds or 4CC.

At least that seems the most logical step. The same gender pair and the younger age skater are both ineligible for Worlds, but may still compete domestically.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

I'm guessing the main intention of this rule may be to allow teams with trans/non-binary members (like Cain/LeDuc) to have their gender identities officially recognised in competition. Timothy is acknowledged as non-binary such by fans, but the official definition of a pairs team meant they technically competed as a man, so this rule would have fixed that technicality for them.

I agree that the physics of required pairs elements mean that a cisgender team will likely not be competitive at the highest level against conventional teams unless they are male with an Uno/Memola height difference (or Jean-Luc Baker/Brandon Frazier, who've posted footage of a headbanger lift for fun). At least one member of the team needs to have gone through puberty with high levels of testosterone in order to have the upper body strength required for overhead lifts (hence why young pairs boys can't do these lifts). In ice dance, at the lower levels an all-female team might manage with synchro-style lifts, but the requirements for level 4 lifts are also not realistically achievable compared to men.

I can certainly see cisgender female ice dance being embraced at the grassroots level (e.g. StarSkate) because it's either pattern dance or a free dance with limited lifts. Varsity skating events include dance couples and fours. There is no gender requirement but due to the demographic of most varsity skaters, most teams at these events are female. They skate shadow only (same steps) at least in Ontario. I think partnered is perfectly feasible though - some patterns have very similar steps for both partners.

 

[4everchan]

I'm guessing the main intention of this rule may be to allow teams with trans/non-binary members (like Cain/LeDuc) to have their gender identities officially recognised in competition. Timothy is acknowledged as non-binary such by fans, but the official definition of a pairs team meant they technically competed as a man, so this rule would have fixed that technicality for them.

I agree that the physics of required pairs elements mean that a cisgender team will likely not be competitive at the highest level against conventional teams unless they are male with an Uno/Memola height difference (or Jean-Luc Baker/Brandon Frazier, who've posted footage of a headbanger lift for fun). At least one member of the team needs to have gone through puberty with high levels of testosterone in order to have the upper body strength required for overhead lifts (hence why young pairs boys can't do these lifts). In ice dance, at the lower levels an all-female team might manage with synchro-style lifts, but the requirements for level 4 lifts are also not realistically achievable compared to men.

I can certainly see cisgender female ice dance being embraced at the grassroots level (e.g. StarSkate) because it's either pattern dance or a free dance with limited lifts. Varsity skating events include dance couples and fours. There is no gender requirement but due to the demographic of most varsity skaters, most teams at these events are female. They skate shadow only (same steps) at least in Ontario. I think partnered is perfectly feasible though - some patterns have very similar steps for both partners.

It is indeed about inclusion. I have no problem imagining a woman throwing another woman etc... We see it to a certain degree in synchro. We also see incredibly strong women in artistic swimming. Also, considering that often, there is a lack of male partners, it may allow younger skaters to keep practicing pairs or dance and compete.

 

[4everchan]

For the records :

Skate Canada's international medal count this year.

Medal Count

skatecanada.ca

For a team apparently so bad... the amount of hardware is impressive.

Teams who have won international medals (GP, JGP, International series)

Pairs
Senior
Stellato-Dudek-Deschamps
Laurin-Éthier
McIntosh-Mimar
Pereira-Michaud
Junior
Schmitz-Taylor
Kemp-Elizarov
Panetta-Trasher

Dance
Senior
Lajoie-Lagha
Fournier-Beaudry-Soerensen
Gilles-Poirier
Soucisse-Firus
Lauriault-Le Gac
Hensen-Lickers
Junior
Bashynska-Beaumont
Gauthier-Thieren
Lewis-McMillan

 

[yume]

I can absolutely picture a cisgender woman throwing another woman, not that it matters.

And of course quadding alone should not be the reason that any skater, male, female or nonbinary, wins a comp.

It's maybe your quadphobia who made you think that i was saying that this pair wouldn't need to do other elements with some quality to win.

It would be interesting to see two cis women do throw triples. For the science.

I think it’s much easier to imagine in ice dance. Sure there are lifts, but a variety of types are are allowed. I’ve seen all-female synchro teams do lifts.

Yeah much easier in ice dance. Some lifts are definitely doable.

 

[DancingCactus]

Interesting and progressive.
But it does make me wonder.. is sexual attraction necessary or preferable in pairs and especially in ID? Would say, Guillaume Cizeron or Paul Poirier prefer to skate with another guy because they are gay or does this not matter to them? Also, what about siblings?

 

[4everchan]

Interesting and progressive.
But it does make me wonder.. is sexual attraction necessary or preferable in pairs and especially in ID? Would say, Guillaume Cizeron or Paul Poirier prefer to skate with another guy because they are gay or does this not matter to them? Also, what about siblings?

This is not about sexual orientation but gender identity. Two separate things here. If Paul and Guillaume were to compete together at Canadian Nationals, I will fly there to attend in person.

 

[kenboy123]

Even if it’s only domestically…I still don’t see how this will work…say a pair consisting of two men won the pairs competition at nationals …they are obviously not going to worlds or Olympics, so I don’t see how this is even going to go anywhere … it’s just a nice gesture if anything…

 

[DancingCactus]

This is not about sexual orientation but gender identity. Two separate things here. If Paul and Guillaume were to compete together at Canadian Nationals, I will fly there to attend in person.

I guess it can also be about gender identity as might be the case with Timothy. But I could imagine it also being about sexuality for some people? At least that's what I've been thinking occasionally. Would it be nicer for a gay guy to skate with someone he could potentially find attractive or does it not matter to them? I don't want to say all partners have to be attracted to each other, but there ARE many teams that are also together off the ice...

Also, I would love to see Guillaume and Paul skate together.

 

[kenboy123]

I guess it can also be about gender identity as might be the case with Timothy. But I could imagine it also being about sexuality for some people? At least that's what I've been thinking occasionally. Would it be nicer for a gay guy to skate with someone he could potentially find attractive or does it not matter to them? I don't want to say all partners have to be attracted to each other, but there ARE many teams that are also together off the ice...

Also, I would love to see Guillaume and Paul skate together.

I have always thought about the same exact thing…why is Radford skating in pairs where he is required to skate with a woman??? Or why is Cizeron in ice dance when he has to skate with a woman ???… why aren’t they just doing the men’s discipline???

 

[el henry]

Interesting and progressive.
But it does make me wonder.. is sexual attraction necessary or preferable in pairs and especially in ID? Would say, Guillaume Cizeron or Paul Poirier prefer to skate with another guy because they are gay or does this not matter to them? Also, what about siblings?

I don't think ice dance teams care about skating with someone they are sexually attracted to.

I think ice dance teams care about skating with someone who they can easily skate with and who they can win medals/score highly/communicate their vision with.

With every ice dancing couple I know of that is a couple off the ice, the work came first, then the romance. Like office romances everywhere.