Skate Canada to allow any 2 athletes to compete together in ice dance, pairs

[icybear]

Wouldnt this actually be detrimental to women pair skaters? If this becomes the norm in the future, and an adult male wants a new partner. Isnt he going to choose a petite 16 years old boy rather than a petite 16 years old girl. We have seen how puberty affects girls a lot more hence so many underage singles champions. Boys are more likely to keep their jumps for longer also boys are better at jumping. As we can see it is usually the ladies who mess up the jumps in pairs. An adult male could lift or throw a 50kg boy as well as a 50kg girl so why even pick girls?

 

[el henry]

this actually be detrimental to women pair skaters? If this becomes the norm in the future, and an adult male wants a new partner. Isnt he going to choose a petite 16 years old boy rather than a petite 16 years old girl. We have seen how puberty affects girls a lot more hence so many underage singles champions. Boys are more likely to keep their jumps for longer also boys are better at jumping. As we can see it is usually the ladies who mess up the jumps in pairs. An adult male could lift or throw a 50kg boy as well as a 50kg girl so why even pick girls?

Because
1) it is figure skating, not ice jumping, and jumps are only one element (assuming for argument’s sake the statement about jumps and boys is true)
2) tell Stephen Gogolev that puberty does not affect boys

This development is positive for women and will keep more in the sport.

 

[icewhite]

Wouldnt this actually be detrimental to women pair skaters? If this becomes the norm in the future, and an adult male wants a new partner. Isnt he going to choose a petite 16 years old boy rather than a petite 16 years old girl. We have seen how puberty affects girls a lot more hence so many underage singles champions. Boys are more likely to keep their jumps for longer also boys are better at jumping. As we can see it is usually the ladies who mess up the jumps in pairs. An adult male could lift or throw a 50kg boy as well as a 50kg girl so why even pick girls?

Because there are more girls around.
And tell Aljona that the girls usually mess up the jumps in pairs

 

[4everchan]

Wouldnt this actually be detrimental to women pair skaters? If this becomes the norm in the future, and an adult male wants a new partner. Isnt he going to choose a petite 16 years old boy rather than a petite 16 years old girl. We have seen how puberty affects girls a lot more hence so many underage singles champions. Boys are more likely to keep their jumps for longer also boys are better at jumping. As we can see it is usually the ladies who mess up the jumps in pairs. An adult male could lift or throw a 50kg boy as well as a 50kg girl so why even pick girls?

If, by some circumstances, a very short and tiny male skater constitutes a great option for pairs and wants to be thrown, twisted and lifted, than good for him ! He will have his own challenges in flexibility for instance... As someone who was bendy until puberty, I can tell you it's not easy to remain flexible after puberty for a boy.

This change is about inclusion. If it allows a male skater that normally wouldn't have been able to skate pairs because of his body type, that is actually the whole point of the change. I doubt we will see many... and it certainly won't be detrimental to women.

 

[JimR]

Wouldnt this actually be detrimental to women pair skaters? If this becomes the norm in the future, and an adult male wants a new partner. Isnt he going to choose a petite 16 years old boy rather than a petite 16 years old girl. We have seen how puberty affects girls a lot more hence so many underage singles champions. Boys are more likely to keep their jumps for longer also boys are better at jumping. As we can see it is usually the ladies who mess up the jumps in pairs. An adult male could lift or throw a 50kg boy as well as a 50kg girl so why even pick girls?

Yes, I think a 50kg male almost always has an advantage over a 50kg female.

It would be incredibly unfair for a 50kg female to lose out to a 50kg male.

The only solution is to have male pairs, female pairs, and mixed pairs.

 

[gkelly]

Wouldnt this actually be detrimental to women pair skaters? If this becomes the norm in the future, and an adult male wants a new partner. Isnt he going to choose a petite 16 years old boy rather than a petite 16 years old girl.

As of 2024-2025, the minimum age for international senior competition will be 17 as of July 1. So an adult male pair skater wants a new partner to compete the same year, they will need someone who will turn 17 in time.

A 16- or 17-year-old girl will most likely have reached close to her adult size. A boy of that age will most likely continue growing and not remain "petite" for long.

A male pair skater who wants a partner he can lift throughout a multiyear senior career would be best off choosing someone who is tiny as a full-grown adult.

There certainly are plenty of very small adult men who do well in figure skating. But there are more women who are even smaller.

 

[LiamForeman]

If, by some circumstances, a very short and tiny male skater constitutes a great option for pairs and wants to be thrown, twisted and lifted, than good for him ! He will have his own challenges in flexibility for instance... As someone who was bendy until puberty, I can tell you it's not easy to remain flexible after puberty for a boy.

This change is about inclusion. If it allows a male skater that normally wouldn't have been able to skate pairs because of his body type, that is actually the whole point of the change. I doubt we will see many... and it certainly won't be detrimental to women.

I agree. I started losing my flexibility in my late 20s though. Especially my back. Before I'd skate I'd warm up by swimming for a half hour or hour, sit in the hot tub and start my stretching routine then go to the dance room and continue the stretching. But by the time I got to the ice it was again less than ideal. I ended up destroying my back (five herniated discs) while practicing a Bielmann (it wasn't even super flexible, more like Plushenko's where he could attain the position but not anything wonderful to look at.). I spent 2010 to 2021 basically immobile. Awful.

All pairs have their obstacles and their things they are gifted in, whether it's height, weight, flexibility, body type, musicality, etc. I still don't see how this would work with three different pairs and dance categories. Just lump them all together. It would also solve the problem of a trans athlete competing. Let's give it a try having them all compete together. If it seems a m/m pair has more advantages, then reassess, but if all these different pairings show how diverse a skating pair can be and that they bring different strengths and of course weaknesses, maybe it will all even out. I don't see any reason why dance should be broken down into three categories though. So maybe just start with Ice Dance? Hard to say.

 

[el henry]

I also don't see why the pairs discipline should be divided, if same gender teams are permitted. Let them compete together. Having a grouping together will also mean that a non-binary athlete like Timothy LeDuc could compete as their true self.

I just don't see the pairs discipline as being overrun by tall men throwing around shorter men (and as I have said before, and say again. jumps are just part of the pairs equation, why concentrate on that?) But if it is, deal with it when it happens.

Many women skaters would be overjoyed with the new possibilities these pairings present, in my opinion, far more than being scared off by some hypothetical men's pairing.

I see no good reason certainly to divide Ice Dance, or to divide Pairs.

 

[el henry]

On Ice Perspective's video of Madison Hubbell and Gabriella Papadakis practicing:

I have no doubt these amazing athletes could also do dance lifts:

 

[icewhite]

On Ice Perspective's video of Madison Hubbell and Gabriella Papadakis practicing:

I have no doubt these amazing athletes could also do dance lifts:

This is such an interesting project, I don't know how serious they are and where they will go, but there's something intriguing about this couple, more than in probably every other couple I could think of. Such skills, so different in their styles, yet something fits. Yeah, I'm hyped to see more.

 

[4everchan]

On Ice Perspective's video of Madison Hubbell and Gabriella Papadakis practicing:

I have no doubt these amazing athletes could also do dance lifts:

well they are doing a curve lift... strong skating overall... the lift is not great yet, but that's not because they cannot do it.. it's simply because maddie never had to do it.. a bit of practice and it would be just as smooth as any curve lift on the circuit. Imagine when kids pick these skills up from the early stages..

 

[ladyjane]

What I like about this whole sequence of little videos, is that they make mistakes and try again. And laugh about it. So enjoyable to watch. Great project in my view!

 

[4everchan]

this video does shut down two kinds of naysayers

1) the ones who think an all women dance team wouldn't be great to watch
2) the ones who keep saying that IAM has too many elite skaters and that it leads to unhealthy rivalries...

I guess it may shut down a third kind of naysayers ... the ones who think 1 and 2 are true lol

 

[ladyjane]

I'm totally with you @4everchan! It's great to watch, and the rivalries are healthy.

 

[el henry]

And, as I am sometimes reminded, because not everyone has IG, comments from the skating community on the IG Post:

Eric Radford: Soooo cool and beautiful!

Kiira Korpi: I'm having the biggest smile on my face. This makes me sooo happy!

Rohene Ward: absolutely gooorgeous ladies!!! I would and could watch u both all day together or separate!!! this is JUICY

Carolina Kostner and Tai Babilonia with heart emojis (and a few more from Tai).

Skaters do not appear afraid of this change.