Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

FetalAttraction · Jan 12, 2003

Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

I can't be the only one annoyed by this awful cliché. Whatever tension the scratch spin is supposed to inspire at the end of a program is completely diminished by the fact that everybody's doing the same thing at the same point! Who started this? Why do skaters keep doing it?

CartDi · Jan 12, 2003

LOL

I have always wondered why so many skaters end their programs with a scratch spin as well... I do think that sometimes it is effective in their programs at the end, but really, like you said, the tension that the scratch spin is supposed to inspire is seriously diminished because so many skaters do it! Yikes! :|

Princess Leppard 625 · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

<span style="color

urple;font-family:georgia;font-size:x-small;">If I am remembering correctly, nobody was doing scratch spins for awhile, and Dickie boy was lamenting this. So now we've swung back in the opposite direction. But I think a well done scratch spin (Evgeni's at the end of Carmen) is very effective. Certainly more so than a Beaver Cleaver...:lol:

cheers,

Laura

FetalAttraction · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

I'd rather see Plushy end with a donut spin or a Biellmann. Is uncle Dick really that influencial? How awful it would be for the skating world to revolve around his tastes? He does have more tastes than most when it comes to skating, but that call on the scratch spin is wrong. It's a really noticeable cliché. By the way, can you guys tell me how your favorite skaters are ending their programs this season? Please include the final element they do.

Princess Leppard 625 · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

<span style="color

urple;font-family:georgia;font-size:small;">I had to go check to be sure, but Evgeni's LP (St. Petersburg 300) ends: camel, Biellman, sit, scratch, ending pose on his knees. Lovely.

Laura

FetalAttraction · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

So Plushy does end his LP with a scratch spin, how awful for an otherwise creative and wonderful program.

Scratch Spin<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/fire.gif"/>

Grgranny · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

I don't know that much about it but I wonder two things. They say it takes more energy to spin than jump so maybe it's so they won't use up all their energy before the end. Also, it's more likely they would fall on a jump and maybe they think the judging of their program would be better to end with a spin because at least they probably wouldn't fall with it and if it's a good spin the judges might forget about the previous mistakes. Just what comes into my head. Also, I don't mind they end in a spin. Kind of like (now don't take this the wrong way) ending with a climax.

DORISPULASKI · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

Less worry on whether they stop exactly at the end of the music with a spin. No one seems to mind if they don't.

You're right it is a real cliche

lottafs · Jan 12, 2003

Re: LOL

It is a bit annoying. :rollin:

Liminoya · Jan 12, 2003

Scratch Spins

Hey, they ain't easy! The Olympic Champ, Alexei,
can't even do one - says he can't stop the travel
on it so has given up on doing them - so, I think
they should count for something.

Unfortunately, when Plush does it, his head really
wobbles and gives a fairly unattractive look to it.

Abt has a beautiful one though, of course.

Joesitz · Jan 12, 2003

Re: Scratch Spins

There are two scratch spins - one outside; one inside. Am I correct? The one used the most is the outside one. Watch Dorothy Hamil do the inside one - super! Imo, the inside is more difficult.

Joe

Idleracer · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

[c]The reason blur spins usually occur at the end of a program, is because for a few brief moments after it ends, the skater is probably too dizzy and disoriented to do anything but but stick his or her arms out and go "Ta-Da!"
At least it would seem that way when you're spinning as fast as Todd Eldredge or Paul Wylie.
<img src="http://www.icesk8.com/clipart/skating.gif" Height=138 Width=242>

rgirl181 · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

I'm with Idle and Granny. Blur spins are exhausting, disorienting, and spectacular. A cliche, yes, but a reliable one. Of course it would be great for a skater to end the program with a great triple or quad jump, but then there's always the possibility of ka-splat! The scratch spin ending has been around for decades--this wasn't Uncle Dick's doing.

Okay, so now that we've decided NO MORE SCRATCH SPIN ENDINGS EVER! what should skaters do instead for a boffo ending worthy of a standing O? They can't die on the ice anymore (thank gawd). So what should it be? Can't use the Y-spin since it's just a scratch spin in disguise. Non-spin endings--cough 'em up folks:smokin:

Here's one: split leap or Russian split and going immediately into a slide on one knee.

Or how about variations on ballet jumps, the way Artur Dmitriev and Ilia Kulik have been doing? I've always thought it was dumb that skaters didn't steal more jumps from ballet.

One of my favorite endings was to Vanessa Gusmeroli's "Legends of the Fall" program in 2000. She saved all her spins for the end, so far about the last 30 seconds she just went from one spin into another--something like a Beillmann, step into a layback, step into a right camel, step into a left camel, step into one of those corkscrewy Lucinda Ruh spin positions, etc. There were about eight different spins altogether. It was very effective and very cool. It reminded me of a leaf falling for a very long time or, metaphorically, the winding down of the old west.

How about a spiral ending? I mean a true spiral spiral ending, spiraling in on the edge until the skater reaches the final point and then goes into a nice soft pose. Nicole Bobek did an exhibition program that ended this way, IIRC.

Footwork ending? Something snazzy, sort of like E-man's.

There are always illusions--bluk. Or how about a layback spin?

Okay, I showed you mine... :eek:

You show me yours.
Rgirl
Bovine Babes, I'm counting on you!

spyralz · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

Todd eldrege can end his programs with what I consider his signature back scratch spin because he's just one fo the best spinners today. But, I think that a majority of skaters who do a scratch spin at the end of their programs don't do a good enough scratch spin and should do something else at the end of their programs.

~Spyralz

SteveKmetko374 · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

if the spin at the end is done very fast and well centered I find it very satisfying (Sasha, Todd Eldredge for example) but if its a sloppy, slow, traveling spin it adds an element of "blah" to the program which is disappointing.

AY2006 · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

Because of the factor Idleracer mentioned, it's very hard to put a scratch spin at any place other than the end. So "no scratch spin at the end" means "no scratch spin" period. Or maybe they can add some meaningless choreography at the end to satisfy those people who do not like cliche. (I would not want to see that.)

mathman444 · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

The scratch spin is the most spectacular thing you can do on ice, plus it is the signature element of figure skating. You could leave out the jumps altogether, and still present a satifying program. But that Dorothy Hamill blur at the end -- what could top that?

Mathman

PS. If I MUST go with something else, Rgirl's split jump into a slide gets my vote.

icenut84 · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Scratch Spins

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>There are two scratch spins - one outside; one inside. Am I correct? The one used the most is the outside one. Watch Dorothy Hamil do the inside one - super! Imo, the inside is more difficult.[/quote]

You're pretty much right yeah. Both involve the skating foot making circles backwards, but the "forward" spin is on a back inside edge and the "backward" spin is on a backward outside edge. The backspin (backward outside) is the more difficult one. I'm not sure which is done most - probably the back scratch (in elite competition anyway), like you said, because it's usually the last position of the combination spin and so is usually on the right (if CCW) foot. If the skater just goes straight into a scratch spin, like Sasha at the end of Carmen, it's usually forwards (backward inside).

DORISPULASKI · Jan 13, 2003

Re: Scratch Spins

As well as the 2 spins Joe mentions, there would also be the crossfoot spin (harder)
dpp

LADSKATER · Jan 14, 2003

Re: Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

This is off your topic Fetal, but since you add this at the bottom of your posts - Jeff B. did land a triple axel at the Canadians and attempted a quad. His program was outstanding for the quality content and his artistry.

As for your question about ending programs with scratch spins - this is pretty much a standard way to end a program - usually the music builds to a crescendo. After 4 or 5 minutes of intensive skating - the scratch spin or the sit spin are a good way to end a program. The skaters have to cool down.

Ladskater

Skaters, Stop Ending Programs With the Scratch Spin!

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