Skaters who didn't hit the 'pinnacle'

[blue_idealist]

I think Kulik had the goods and the drive to succeed further in competitions, I don't know if he had the nerves for it? He always struck me as a headcase and at Olys the stars aligned for him. And he did many great programs as a pro. One of my fave skaters, lovely jumps and flow across the ice.

I'm not sure if he would have won in 2002. He would have had to improve. If he had skated like in '98, I think Yagudin's/Plushenko's technical content would have given them the edge. Now that I think about it a bit more he may have ended up 4th behind Goebel and his set of quads. I didn't see him as a headcase but I was pretty young when watching his eligible career so I wasn't that tuned in to the details.

 

[stella luna]

Ye Bin Mok describes her skating journey:
http://iamkoreanamerican.com/2012/06/12/yebin-mok/

Wow, thanks for posting.

 

[stella luna]

Ye Bin had a huge Lutz, Gorgeous Posture, and one of the prettiest laybacks ever. Her SP from 2003 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlv6n5EQq3U

And Frank was her coach!

 

[noskates]

I never saw Kulik as a headcase either. Not sure where that came from. But - I do agree that he would have been chopped up in the Yagudin/Plushenko machine. Ilia was a great pro because he could put his somewhat strange footwork into play and he did have big jumps. But he wasn't as smooth and polished as Yagudin and I think Plushenko outjumped him. But we'll never know. I've really enjoyed kind of following his daughter Liza. Have seen her on a few TV shows and she really shows promise. Has her Daddy's long legs and big jumps and her Mom's grace and style - and at a very early age. (I think she's 13 or so) I expect to see her competing at Nationals soon. She's won a few regional competitions.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Dick Button, whom I greatly respect, once referred to Angela Nikodinov's skating as "liquid gold."

That phrase stuck with me. Memories of her layback spin also linger, and nearly everyone in the 15 years since has suffered in comparison.

He also referred to her as a "refrigerator break," which probably captures her weakness in performing. I think it was due more to her programs under Oppegard because when she switched to the Russian coach she had much better choreography for her style.

 

[skylark]

I'm not sure if he would have won in 2002. He would have had to improve. If he had skated like in '98, I think Yagudin's/Plushenko's technical content would have given them the edge. Now that I think about it a bit more he may have ended up 4th behind Goebel and his set of quads. I didn't see him as a headcase but I was pretty young when watching his eligible career so I wasn't that tuned in to the details.

I read in an interview with Ilia years ago that he "hated" what he was doing, in the run up to Olympics 1998. He and Tara both retired before Worlds, which was unusual in those days, but they got very lucrative signing deals with Stars on Ice.

I took Ilia's meaning to be that he disliked such strict (and limiting) training routine, which he has in common with Nicole Bobek and Sasha Cohen. He stressed how much more he enjoys the artistic side of the sport. So that worked out well for him. I'll never forget a SOI routine he did without music, but with microphones on his skates, so that it sounded like tap dancing. Which was genius! (somewhere, he also said only SOI would spend the money required to make that number work.)

And Ilia did do a quad toe loop, at the beginning of his Rhapsody in Blue program for Nagano. Ahhh, such Good Old Days.

 

[skylark]

Tiffany and Johnnie Stiegler, yes. I agree with a post upthread that Tiffany had a presence on the ice, line, extension, air position, charisma and joy in skating very much like Katia Gordeeva. And Johnnie maintained the quality of the pair, without upstaging her. So beautiful. Somehow they also didn't have anything awkward or limiting in their brother-sister presentation, either. Of course they were still young; but in their later years, when the growth spurt and injuries took their toll, they still had something so pure and natural together that thoughts of limitations of a brother-sister team didn't enter into it.

This is a program to Swan Lake that they did when Tiffany was only eleven years old; and it really does show her star quality. Scott said about 3 times ... "they're only going to get better!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T8HaCNc6Rc

The actual program starts at 2 minutes. Their first Senior Nationals programs follow, from 1998.

 

[LiamForeman]

Tiffany and Johnnie Stiegler, yes. I agree with a post upthread that Tiffany had a presence on the ice, line, extension, air position, charisma and joy in skating very much like Katia Gordeeva. And Johnnie maintained the quality of the pair, without upstaging her. So beautiful. Somehow they also didn't have anything awkward or limiting in their brother-sister presentation, either. Of course they were still young; but in their later years, when the growth spurt and injuries took their toll, they still had something so pure and natural together that thoughts of limitations of a brother-sister team didn't enter into it.

This is a program to Swan Lake that they did when Tiffany was only eleven years old; and it really does show her star quality. Scott said about 3 times ... "they're only going to get better!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T8HaCNc6Rc

The actual program starts at 2 minutes. Their first Senior Nationals programs follow, from 1998.

You hit the nail on the head re The Stieglers and the bro-sis relationship. Tiffany was just so phenomenal with her presence you don't realize anything but the program. I hate to say it but whenever I saw the Hartsells skate I'd start hearing Dueling Banjos in my head, just ick.

 

[Diahpam]

The first that come to my mind is Gachinski. He shows many potential before the massive strings of unfortunate events.. I thought he was going to be in epic rivalry with yuzu. oh what could have been!! If only he didnt let the pressure destroy him, if only russian fed treat him better...
The other one that come to my mind is taka kozuka. So beautiful skating skills..but he always been in the shadows behind dai and then after yuzu emerges he stepped further in shadows. And now, after he retires and announcing that he will left skating it breaks my heart..
Oh well, hope they found success and happines intheir current life!!

 

[Knebli]

Simply. Tracey Wainman. In the eighties but a super duper talent that made a huge personally driven comeback. Courage!

 

[Ice Dance]

Always, for me, this is the big one:

Jamie Silverstein & Justin Pekarek

I don't have to wonder what might have been. I saw what Tanith & Ben did in their wake. And Jamie & Justin were better. After years off the ice, and with only a single season with O'Meara, Jamie miraculously made the 2006 Olympic team. But with Justin . . .

For me, Silverstein & Pekarek will always be the first U.S. dance team I ever believed had the potential to win it ALL. Instead, I just have to content myself with the knowledge that they broke ground and set the stage for the tremendous dance field we have in the U.S. today.

 

[blue_idealist]

The first that come to my mind is Gachinski. He shows many potential before the massive strings of unfortunate events.. I thought he was going to be in epic rivalry with yuzu. oh what could have been!! If only he didnt let the pressure destroy him, if only russian fed treat him better...
The other one that come to my mind is taka kozuka. So beautiful skating skills..but he always been in the shadows behind dai and then after yuzu emerges he stepped further in shadows. And now, after he retires and announcing that he will left skating it breaks my heart..
Oh well, hope they found success and happines intheir current life!!

Yeah, both of them... I never thought Gachinski would be as "big" as Plushenko but I thought he could do more than he did.

 

[Diahpam]

Yeah, both of them... I never thought Gachinski would be as "big" as Plushenko but I thought he could do more than he did.

What happens to Gachinksi made me even more appreciate other skaters who bore the weight of their nation in their shoulder yet remains so strong, even if they face failures/ loses/ hates.

 

[LiamForeman]

Simply. Tracey Wainman. In the eighties but a super duper talent that made a huge personally driven comeback. Courage!

Early Tracey Wainman only showed promise. Great spins, barely there jumps though, but personality plus. I don't think anyone believed she'd be world champion material. Well, except Canadians. She was strictly a very poor man's Zayak back then.

Here is her at 1980 Worlds at 12 y/o: https://youtu.be/v5tfhWPnbPo She definitely has good basics, loved her spins, her attention to the music. I can see how she became overwhelmed in Canada. The announcers were saying this was the best debut since Olga Korbut????? Man were they reaching. She clearly outgrew the sport. It happens. You don't know how many girls I grew up with that outgrew their passion whether skating, ballet, gymn after hitting 15/16. Even I outgrew it all at 14 when I went from 5'4" to 6'1" in the span of about nine months. I lost all my difficult skills plus felt gangly and ugly which didn't help my presentation. I think hitting the pinnacle should start once someone has at least hit some semblance of puberty, otherwise it's just wishful thinking.

 

[Kinga]

Great thread! So many memories and I learnt something new about skaters I did not know

My names:
Jeremy Abbott - I guess no comment is needed...
Yukari Nakano! So sad for her not winning WC medal in 2008 and not qualifing for Olympics
Kimmie Meisner - had she survived puberty, would she develop an artistic side?
Jenny Vahaama (sp) -another young promising Finnish skater who displayed similar elegance to Laura Lepisto. Injuries ended her career?
Nobunari Oda... - nough said!
Anna Rechnio - her jumps were huge! Sadly, she did not put it together when it counted. I also have a feeling that her coaching choices were not the best (this could also be coupled to poor funding). The same goes when it comes to programs - it seemed like she could not find something that would make her really shine!

When it comes to Yamaguchi/Gallindo, I actually loved their opposite spinnig/jumping directions. That was fresh and in spite of rotating the opposite directions, they had spot on unison! Apart from that, they had good lifts, they skated extremely fast.

About Elena Liaschenko - I might remember it wrong, but some commentators mentioned that her training situation was really really hard. She had to get up at 4 or 5 in the morning and drive 3 hours one way to reach the training facility!!! That must have been tough.

 

[Knebli]

LiamForeman

Early Tracey Wainman only showed promise. Great spins, barely there jumps though, but personality plus. I don't think anyone believed she'd be world champion material. Well, except Canadians. She was strictly a very poor man's Zayak back then.

Here is her at 1980 Worlds at 12 y/o: https://youtu.be/v5tfhWPnbPo She definitely has good basics, loved her spins, her attention to the music. I can see how she became overwhelmed in Canada. The announcers were saying this was the best debut since Olga Korbut????? Man were they reaching. She clearly outgrew the sport. It happens. You don't know how many girls I grew up with that outgrew their passion whether skating, ballet, gymn after hitting 15/16. Even I outgrew it all at 14 when I went from 5'4" to 6'1" in the span of about nine months. I lost all my difficult skills plus felt gangly and ugly which didn't help my presentation. I think hitting the pinnacle should start once someone has at least hit some semblance of puberty, otherwise it's just wishful thinking.

Pinnacle or not.......to see her passion and pleasure to perform was extraordinary! One of a kind.....

 

[Tutto]

Elene Gedevanishvili imho never reached her potential. when she finished 10th in her first Olympics (Torino) being in 6th after the short program, I thought she was destined for great things but it didn't happen for her

 

[Ares]

Some examples from my country (Poland)

Anna Rechnio - tremendous speed, big jumps & marvellous triple lutz. She could have possibly got medals at Worlds or Europeans but that never happened. Her best results came in 1998 & 1999 at the World where she respectively finished 5th and 6th, in '98 she was 2nd after impeccable SP but made too many mistakes in her LP to finish higher. She missed her big chances in the same exact years at the Euros in the same exact years when instead of Ania they sent Sabina Wojtala for both events. She was nowhere as talented and her potential always seemed limited by comparison. To be fair she won Nationals in '98 beating Rechnio so it was understandable but still disappointing. I don't know why but year later there was no Anna in that event either despite being eligible, and she stopped competing year later.

Sylwia Nowak & Sebastian Kolasiński - Ice Dancing. Many people at least in Poland expected big things to come for them as it should be when it comes to World Junior Champions in 1994. They sorta reached their plateau and never broke the ceiling unlike many other teams which they were beating in Junior competition and early in their senior career. They competed continuingly between 1995 and 2003 but after promising debut & starts in '95 (the highlight being 12th in Europeans) they stucked on that 7-12 places and never reached higher. Honestly I have to admit it's not because they were robbed (score fixing so apparent in the past) or something I think that their skating skills simply stagnated and there was no apparent improvement throughout their career. They were always very elegant & attentive to details but seemed to lack speed & technical difficulty to me.

Maybe with different coaching, approach, more money to spent & better conditions they would achieve more? Or if they remained longer as competitive skaters? There were teams like Grushina & Goncharov who started in the same exact year (and of the same age) as Nowak & Kolasiński but prolonged their career and had great culmination of that winning 3 medals at Europeans in a row between 2004 & 2006 as well as winning bronze in Torino Olympics & Worlds medal in 2005. Similar analogy that didn't happen in case of Poles could be seen with Denkova & Staviski who also belong to their ''era''. I have no idea what Sebastian does but I know that Sylwia is still active in figure skating as she works as a coach with Kaliszek / Spodyriev team in Poland

 

[Kinga]

Sylwia Nowak & Sebastian Kolasiński - Ice Dancing. Many people at least in Poland expected big things to come for them as it should be when it comes to World Junior Champions in 1994. They sorta reached their plateau and never broke the ceiling unlike many other teams which they were beating in Junior competition and early in their senior career. They competed continuingly between 1995 and 2003 but after promising debut & starts in '95 (the highlight being 12th in Europeans) they stucked on that 7-12 places and never reached higher. Honestly I have to admit it's not because they were robbed (score fixing so apparent in the past) or something I think that their skating skills simply stagnated and there was no apparent improvement throughout their career. They were always very elegant & attentive to details but seemed to lack speed & technical difficulty to me.

How could I forget Nowak/Kolasinski! Thank you for bringing them up!