Sonia Bianchetti's response to Irina's COP scores

[Vicky458]

as promised I have asked my son about Slutskaya. He said that both her programs have very hig level elements, except on step sequence of level 1. She skated very well and she is already in excellent condition. The problrem to me is that now the fact that you have high level elements, which give you a lot of marks, does not coincide with good skating. To me now skating is turning from a beautiful sport to a difficult sport, which is a totally different story. I must say I am really concerned from what I hear. All the programs look more or less the same, with the same spins and the same positions. I am not so sure that a very complicated camel spin, or lay back spin, is better than a simple, fast, well centered spin, in a wonderful postion, without too many restrictions as to the number of turns in each position, seconds of durations etc. All is very depressing for me. I would like to see our spòort to progress in beauty and art, and not the opposite.
All the best Sonia

 

[Doggygirl]

What is your source for this information?

DG

 

[Vicky458]

My source is Sonia. I e-mailed her and this was her response!

 

[wvgal57]

So I take it she wasn't there. Her son was one of the officials however and he seems very impressed with what Irina brought this year. I'm sure Irina still has a few surprises to pull out yet, the least of which is higher level footwork.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm with Sonia. I love simple camel spins. It is one of the most beautiful moves in figure skating. even ballerinas can not do camels. Now they look so contorted and off kilter, the beauty has gone. But the contorted tricks make high points.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Thanks for the post, Vicky.

I think this line is the crux of the matter: "To me now skating is turning from a beautiful sport to a difficult sport, which is a totally different story."

Maybe a better story, maybe worse -- but different. Irina's short program certainly proved that it is possible for a skater to acheive a high level of difficulty and at the same time skate beautifully.

But looking to the future, I think there is a real opportunity for a resurgence of professional skating in the wake of this apparent change of direction in the sport at the elligible level.

Mathman

 

[Doggygirl]

My source is Sonia. I e-mailed her and this was her response!

Sorry Vicky. You have posted this on multiple FS discussion boards today. If Sonia e-mailed this to you personally, but wants her (or her son's) opinion to become public, then I will wait for one of them to post it.

DG

 

[mzheng]

Wow, I don't know you are not allowed to post the same contents in different boards?

I read at FSU too, there was another poster post today that Sonia does exchange email with fans and gives permition to fans to post them on disscussion board.

btw, Thanks Vicky for post it.

 

[Kuchana]

Thanks Vicky for posting this. Even if I do not always agree with some of Sonia's arguements, I think she makes a good case about the debate on COP.

 

[IndieBoi]

Pardon my ignorance, but who's Sonia Bianchetti?

 

[Sylvia]

http://www.soniabianchetti.com/

 

[Mathman]

Mrs. Bianchetti's remarks aren't really about Irina, except to say that her son, as technical controller at Cup of China, was impressed with some of her elements.

Mrs. B. herself just expressed some concern about point-system judging in general, as she has consistently done.

Mathman

 

[Panther2000]

I'm with Sonia. I love simple camel spins. It is one of the most beautiful moves in figure skating. even ballerinas can not do camels. Now they look so contorted and off kilter, the beauty has gone. But the contorted tricks make high points.

Joe

Ahmen to that. I I will join the Sonia club also. It is great that they are putting more effort in the inbetweens. But, Sloppy, rushed, unfinished positions, etc. Doesn't make it better. Flash & no substance makes for boaring Programs. & I do agree that some of the programs are looking much alike.


Dick Button called it right when he said that after they get rid of Figures the sport will soon be a Jumping contest. It took a little while But, he is wright. How many men had to retire do to injuries or who could no longer compete because they could do a quad once or twice in a progam. All the injuries in the past 6 or 7 years is crazy. & it is on all side., Men, Ladie, Pairs.

Frankly, I think that they are stearing the Sport away from the more Truly Artistic skater who doesn't just rely FLASH & FLUFF. Being that there were so few of those types of skaters left. theYounger group coming up is all about the jumps. I see a few skaters that can be so amazing & hopefully, they can mature more artistically along with their jumps.

 

[tharrtell]

... very hig level elements, except on step sequence of level 1.

Okay, I've been in denial re: this whole COP thing, but it's not going away, so I need to learn. What are high level elements? Is that simply a ranking of the difficulty of a skill? Like a layback w/ leg down is a level 1 and one w/ an out-turned leg is more difficult so is a level 2? This has nothing to do w/ quality, correct? Rather, the skill being performed? Quality is being assessed elsewhere, no? Please tell me this system doesn't reward quality. Is it possible that a level 2 skill could actually receive more points than a level 3 skill if it is done at a high level of quality?

I know, I know, these types of questions should have been asked years ago. Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Doggygirl]

Hi THartell. There are a variety of documents on www.isu.org that spell everything out, but it requires patience and lots of reading!! Especially since the rules for this season involve looking at the rules from 2004/2005 and then subsequently looking at a different document which outlines just the changes for 2005/2006.

Here is a summary from my perspective. I'm still a student myself, and there are others here more advanced in their knowledge. So I welcome any corrections if I get anything wrong!!

All elements (jump and non-jump) have a base value. The technical caller identifies the element (i.e. 3Z or L4 spin and the type of spin, etc.). The judges determine the Grade of Execution (GOE) for each element and the range is -3 to +3. There is factoring to the GOE's (there is a table in one of the ISU documents.) As an example, for lower point value elements such as single jumps, a judge giving "+3" GOE for that element would actually result in a lower point value than "3" being added to the base value for that element. (sounds more complicated than it is - I think it's easy to understand when you look at the tables)

Non-jump elements can be assigned Level 1, 2, 3 or 4. Level 4 this season roughly equates to Level 3 from last season. The essentially inserted a lower level. The number of positions and features that need to be present to qualify for a particular level are spelled out in detail in the ISU documents.

Then of course the judges give scores in each of the 5 PCS categories.

I find it very helpful to print out a few of the score sheets after the events and watch the skaters with score sheets in hand. It makes it much easier to understand at least on the technical side, why each skater got the scores they did.

Best wishes on your COP study adventure!! I'm really enjoying learning more and more all the time, and making better sense out of the results.

ETA: I don't think it's necessary at all to enjoy the competition WITHOUT much info about the judging system. I've focused my "learning" on singles. But I LOVE watching pairs just for the sheer enjoyment. I know very little about which elements get what types of scores in pairs, and it doesn't bother my enjoyment at all.

DG

 

[tharrtell]

Thanks DG. I appreciate your insight. I think I've got some reading to do ... and quickly.