Starting Order

[MarieM]

Lepisto is a disgrace.
Way held up here, and she doesn't even deserve it. She won't be top ten at worlds with that kind of skate.

These championships have been the final proof that now judges can use COP as they used the old system. Sad sad sad.

Carolina has a spin that didn't count at all.

 

[jiggs]

I counted 4 triples. Iam abit surprised she beat Kostner too but Kostner was not perfect either.

But she at least had 4 different triples, one being a Lutz and one being a Flip. Laura's most difficult tripple was a loop!

 

[Medusa]

Kostner landed 4 Triples - just like Lepistö. 3 out of 4 Triples from Kostner looked really tight, there is not much GOE for jumps like that.

The judges can't consider that - in theory - Kostner can do a 7-Triples program, and Lepistö can't, if Kostner doesn't show those 7 Triples.

Kostner got 2 points more PCS than Lepistö - questionable in my opinion actually, because Lepistö is really fast over the ice too, nearly as much as Kostner - and at the same time has outstanding extension and posture, which Kostner doesn't have. I also would give Lepistö the edge on musicality.

Kostner's spiral sequence is a level four, she also got +1.6 GOE for it (?).

I am really happy that Lepistö can take this home. She is so beautiful to watch, and nearly everything she does has outstanding quality, the steps, the spins - the jumps she can do.

Alena Leonova had the skate of her life, 6 Triples, no underrotations, no fall. Her enthusiam is great. I bet the Russians didn't expect to win back that third ladies' spot at Europeans. Now they only need to find a third, age-eligible lady.

 

[kasia16]

Protocols are up:
http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2009/ec09_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

 

[turtle]

Finally someone thinks in the same way.
Like it or not, non considering results 110 is a HUGE result for Lepisto.
Poykio was graded fairly.

Okay, let's be clear. Lepisto landed four triples today. Yes, we know she can do only three different types of triples. Kostner also landed four triples today even though she could do five different triples. It doesn't matter how many different kinds of triples you can do. What matters is how many you landed in the competition and how those jumps were scored.

 

[jiggs]

Why was Carolina's spin invalid?!? She would be the champion if it counted. Does someone have an explanation for that?

 

[Buttercup]

Okay, let's be clear. Lepisto landed four triples today. Yes, we know she can do only three different types of triples. Kostner also landed four triples today even though she could do five different triples. It doesn't matter how many different kinds of triples you can do. What matters is how many you landed in the competition and how those jumps were scored.

Actually, what also matters is the difficulty of the triples done, and Caro landed triple flip and lutz, while Lepisto's hardest triple was the loop. Caro also did the harder jumps in combination.

ETA: I'm curious about the invalid spin. What was that about?

 

[Spun Silver]

I tuned in just as Lepisto was skating off. Anyone have a vid of her and/or Kostner?

I felt so bad for Glebova skating with that thing on her face. Who could pull that off??

 

[beep_beep]

Yeah, what was with the spin ??

ETA: I just looke at the protocols, i'm not too savy on this, but it looked like it was invalid because she had already done a CCoSp and the judges though that she later did another one. That one was considered invalid. Could that be the reason? :scratch: Are skaters allowed only one of those per FS ?

 

[museksk8r]

Carolina took level 0 on the change foot combo spin...
Or better, it was level 3 but the element was considered invalid.:sheesh:

Can anyoone explain me that? (technically please, and not in a FAN way)

I didn't see today's competition and I don't know what the judges found wrong with Carolina's spin today, but I do recall an instance with Sarah Meier at last season's TEB when she didn't get low enough into a sit spin position in the SP and it was registered as an invalid element and she got 0 points for it. I wonder if something similar happened with Kostner today. It's really unfortunate for her and I feel bad for her if such a thing cost her the title . . . that's a tough way to miss out on gold! Did Kostner not get the required number of revolutions in the spins to get the levels? . . . I dunno, so confusing.

 

[turtle]

Actually, what also matters is the difficulty of the triples done, and Caro landed triple flip and lutz, while Lepisto's hardest triple was the loop. Caro also did the harder jumps in combination.

Of course we know about the difficulty levels of different jumps. That's why I said how those jumps were scored matters. Not only the difficulty level but also GOE as well. Unfortunately Kostner got a lot of - GOEs today. Lepisto's wasn't clean either and after all Kostner won the LP.

I'm trying to point out that mentioning the fact that Lepisto can do only 3 different triples is a meaningless and unnecessary argument.

 

[Buttercup]

It's really unfortunate for her and I feel bad for her if such a thing cost her the title . . . that's a tough way to miss out on gold! Did Kostner not get the required number of revolutions in the spins to get the levels? . . . I dunno, so confusing.

I couldn't see anything wrong with Carolina's spins. And it's not that she got level 1 - it's listed as level 3 but invalid. It did cost her the title, because the difference overall was less than 2 points.

 

[kikakiks]

Kostner landed 4 Triples - just like Lepistö. 3 out of 4 Triples from Kostner looked really tight, there is not much GOE for jumps like that.

The judges can't consider that - in theory - Kostner can do a 7-Triples program, and Lepistö can't, if Kostner doesn't show those 7 Triples.

Kostner got 2 points more PCS than Lepistö - questionable in my opinion actually, because Lepistö is really fast over the ice too, nearly as much as Kostner - and at the same time has outstanding extension and posture, which Kostner doesn't have. I also would give Lepistö the edge on musicality.

Kostner's spiral sequence is a level four, she also got +1.6 GOE for it (?).

I am really happy that Lepistö can take this home. She is so beautiful to watch, and nearly everything she does has outstanding quality, the steps, the spins - the jumps she can do.

Alena Leonova had the skate of her life, 6 Triples, no underrotations, no fall. Her enthusiam is great. I bet the Russians didn't expect to win back that third ladies' spot at Europeans. Now they only need to find a third, age-eligible lady.

Kostner's spiral seq was graded level 1 in the short (not in the long). with 3 points more that were taken out form her she would have a 3 points more in the standings.

What happened with the spin in the LP is this: the change foot sit spin was counted as combo spin, so another spin was not counted.
that is other 4 points lost.

And with these 7 points she would lead by a 5 points margin.


The problem in this competition is that if Kostner would have won noone would have complained. With this outcome, instead, even if some poeple are still happy about Lepisto winning beacuse they like her, you can tell something is iffy.

I am happy just because this competition will put an end to all the "Kostner is always held up" complaints...

BTW lepisto did not even have a 3 jump combo (does not have a flip neither a loop. I imagine she just got +2 on jumps, which they are good, cna't deny...but 110 with:

triple toe + double toe
triple loop
triple sal + double toe
triple axel
triple axel + double toe
....and whatever is left (i'll check the protocols) is kind of iffy...

 

[figuristka]

LEONOVA had the best tech element score score. Good for her hope she skates well again.

Iam not sure why kostners spin didnt count either. Maybe if we see it again.

 

[Medusa]

Of course we know about the difficulty levels of different jumps. That's why I said how those jumps were scored matters. Not only the difficulty level but also GOE as well. Unfortunately Kostner got a lot of - GOEs today. Lepisto's wasn't clean either and after all Kostner won the LP.

I'm trying to point out that mentioning the fact that Lepisto can do only 3 different triples is a meaningless and unnecessary argument.

You are totally right, it only counts if the competition is top-notch - read if there are lots of people with the possibility of a 7 Triples program, then you need all the Triples.

And even if you have all those people capable of 7-Triples programs - the winner at last worlds had only 5 Triples in her progarm (Asada), the winner of the freeprogram had only 5 Triples in her program (Kim). Olympics 2006 was won with a 5 Triples program. Lepistö had the 7th best long program at last Worlds, just with 3 different Triples. It's not her fault that others can't bring their A-game.

 

[Dodhiyel]

The spin marked invalid element was a CCoSp3, that's a Spin Combination with Change of Position and Change of Foot, Level 3.

Since Carolina had a CCoSp4 as her fifth element, and it was counted, there must be some explanation. Someone who can re-play the video of her skate may be able to explain to the rest of us why the easier spin, at the 8th level, was an "invalid element".

 

[turtle]

BTW lepisto did not even have a 3 jump combo (does not have a flip neither a loop. I imagine she just got +2 on jumps, which they are good, cna't deny...but 110 with:

triple toe + double toe
triple loop
triple sal + double toe
triple axel
triple axel + double toe
....and whatever is left (i'll check the protocols) is kind of iffy...

Wow, Lepisto did 2 triple axels! I think 110 was way too low for the jump content described there. By the way Lepisto got only one +2 goe from one judge for any of her jumps today. She has quite a few - goe though.

 

[beep_beep]

And the complaint of Kostner being held up was replaced by the complaint of Lepistö being held up... Will we ever get through a competition without the "_______ was help up !" bickering?

I missed Meier today...

 

[kikakiks]

LEONOVA had the best tech element score score. Good for her hope she skates well again.

Iam not sure why kostners spin didnt count either. Maybe if we see it again.

What happened with the spin in the LP is this:

the change foot sit spin (right before the step seq) was counted as combo spin, instead of a one position change foot spin. So. since sh had just done a change foot combo spin, that change foot sit spin was not counted.
It was not about not performing a low enough sit spin (otherwise it would have been a level 0)
These 3.5 points lost cost her the title.

I think the tech panel was really smart in keeping her scores as low as possible.

 

[figuristka]

I respect all the skates and no one should be blamed if the outcome is not what was expected they all tried their best.
The free skates however at this competition was quite poor compared to what the top skates such as Rochette, Yu na kim, Asada have been doing lately. Still Kostner and Lepistö are usually great in their short programs with a 3-3 combination and could still do well.