State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[LiamForeman]

I think she's trying to encourage herself and send a message to everyone that she's not giving up. She probably feels very alone right now and I hope she has a good support system in her family and friends. She is one of the older competitors amongst the ladies' field but I think she's still a little kid at heart and needs some nurturing as well.

Isn't that a Winston Churchill quote? That when you are going through hell, DON'T STOP! Keep going! I've said this for the last thirty years. Pretty sure it's Winston.

 

[moriel]

By this article it sounds like she is doing whatever she can to correct her trajectory. She sounds much better than she did at Skate America. I really hope she pulls it out at nationals!

At this point, I don't believe really. Instead of blablabla, she should just go no nationals and score 220+
Because if the stuff people say would actually translate into results on ice... You know, out of all the ladies who said they were training 3A and quads, how many landed any in competition?

 

[coolboogie22]

I apologize Gracie Gold. I think that no one have ever mention this about her.

But does someone realise that this is her first season without skating with her twin sister Carly Gold.

Maybe her sister Carly Gold was a boost of motivation in her skating. Maybe that she enjoy skating with her when she trains with Frank.

Now that Carly have retire maybe that Gracie fell lonely on the ice and that she lost motivation because this is the first season that she trains, compete and skate without her sister Carly in the rink.

It's maybe just this, who have affect Gracie life this season! It's the only change in her life, the absence of Carly in her training environment.

Family environment can have an impact in motivation. I think maybe that Gracie fell lonely training without Carly and that's affect her motivation and overall skating.

She just need to find a new balance in all of that. I'm sure that Gracie will be ready for nationals. She still have the talent and have great jump.

 

[amethyst star]

At this point, I don't believe really. Instead of blablabla, she should just go no nationals and score 220+
Because if the stuff people say would actually translate into results on ice... You know, out of all the ladies who said they were training 3A and quads, how many landed any in competition?

Agreed. I do hope Gracie can redeem herself, but when I hear her talk about getting the bad performances out of the way to focus on Nationals (and Worlds?) she could be putting too many eggs in one basket, and possibly be putting too much pressure on herself to perform well at Nationals.

 

[andromache]

At this point, I don't believe really. Instead of blablabla, she should just go no nationals and score 220+
Because if the stuff people say would actually translate into results on ice... You know, out of all the ladies who said they were training 3A and quads, how many landed any in competition?

So skaters shouldn't do interviews anymore?

 

[Sydney Rose]

Not if they're going to dig an even deeper hole for themselves.

What is Gracie's team thinking?!

 

[Layback11]

https://www.google.com/amp/olympics...gracie-gold-carolina-kostner-golden-spin/amp/

Gracie apparently told Nick McCarvel, "I'm getting out all the bad stuff. There's been a lot of bad. I'm setting the stage for an amazing comeback." Which about sums up how I hope her season goes now.

She seems to be doing much better emotionally than she was even a few months ago. That's a very good sign.

 

[skatelikewind1966]

I too hope that Polina comes back strong. :agree:

I would add that some have been speculating, theorizing, extrapolating, and making lame jokes about other supposed explanations for why Polina has not yet competed this season.
But again, other than injury, Polina herself has not articulated any cause and effect.

---

As is often the case, TSL failed to provide sourcing.
If Polina ends up not competing at Nats, we could just as easily assume that Dave's tweet was nothing more than a good guess on his part.

By tweeting something, Dave IS discussing it publically.
If Dave took his own journalism seriously, it would be quite unprofessional for him to "report" unconfirmed information without saying that it is unconfirmed -- or to publish information that he received off the record.

Sometimes athletes only talk within their own circle thus letting only the right people know at the right time (very professional and well managed). Having to speculate what Polina is doing or not doing simply means one is not in her circle.

The same thing goes for injury reports, there are always "injury reports" but these do not always mean there is an actual injury - social media, athletic depts PR, etc., are managed by the athlete, the athletes team and family to release what they want released, so then every one else can speculate.

 

[andromache]

I don't see this, sorry.

Polina last season deserved to be US National champion: her FS wasn't perfectly clean but overall she was the most consistent skater of the event, but instead the Fed / judges decided to push Gracie's scores once again almost at the point to set a new record to let her win.

Thinking on the mind of Polina Edmunds, or Mirai Nagasu at US Nationals 2014: it must be tough to see that you're doing your best and you know, that you were the best there, but still not being able to win because the fed decided to bet on someone else. To me that kills the competition and when there is no competition, it's pretty obvious why we are always talking about those three ladies even when they are very disappointing.

US fed should risk more, giving everyone the same chances and then let's see who deserves to be at worlds, this is important not just for the skaters but also the coaches: Frank learned from the mistakes but also the successes of his students, Tom or Tammy or David has to do the same way.

At this point Mariah Bell and Courtney Hicks have more medals than Gracie this season, they need that little trust from the fed to stay in the mix and maybe going to worlds and keep improving, it would be very sad to see something similar to last year.

Everyone here is expecting a Pogorilaya moment for Gracie, but you should know that Anna skated that good at Nationals because she knew she needed two perfectly clean performances after the disappointing GP season.

Mariah and Courtney need to skate better than Gracie at Nationals - none of them have a stunning body of work this season, none of them made GPF (unlike Ashley in 2014, who also medalled at GPF, which is why she was given the spot over Mirai. Duh. Is a bad program or two at Nationals going to keep Evgenia off the Russian team? Nope.)

Honestly, your allegation that judges "unfairly pushed the scores" for Gracie's win is ridiculous. She skated lights out in a great and memorable program, and her choreography and skating skills were light years ahead of Polina's. Consistency isn't enough to win medals, especially with underrotation problems. If Polina had truly been the best at Nationals that year, she would've had better programs and better skating, and she would've won. It's not all about landing the jumps - there are other parts of skating, and Gracie was better.

While I think Ashley's WSM and SA win (both part of her body of work) are enough to help her out a bit at Nationals and secure her a spot even with lackluster skates, I have a feeling Gracie will receive very little help in that regard.

 

[qwerty]

For the sake of my (slightly dumb, just trying to fill the void before Nationals) hypothetical:

Let's assume Ashley would have finished 5th at GPF, taking into consideration her season's scores so far. Do you think it's better that she just didn't go at all, or would the competition have helped her for the second half of the season?

 

[Tolstoj]

Mariah and Courtney need to skate better than Gracie at Nationals - none of them have a stunning body of work this season, none of them made GPF (unlike Ashley in 2014, who also medalled at GPF, which is why she was given the spot over Mirai. Duh. Is a bad program or two at Nationals going to keep Evgenia off the Russian team? Nope.)

Honestly, your allegation that judges "unfairly pushed the scores" for Gracie's win is ridiculous. She skated lights out in a great and memorable program, and her choreography and skating skills were light years ahead of Polina's. Consistency isn't enough to win medals, especially with underrotation problems. If Polina had truly been the best at Nationals that year, she would've had better programs and better skating, and she would've won. It's not all about landing the jumps - there are other parts of skating, and Gracie was better.

While I think Ashley's WSM and SA win (both part of her body of work) are enough to help her out a bit at Nationals and secure her a spot even with lackluster skates, I have a feeling Gracie will receive very little help in that regard.

Wait a second i didn't say this: i thought she was great in the long program, but her short program was very bad at the point she could have not win nationals imo, Polina was better overall. (but still Gracie was good enough to grab a spot for Worlds, i'm not complaining this)

There's a huuuge difference between a bad program or two and a disastrous season: even Pogo last season as bad as she was, she actually was great at seniors B competitions. Gracie was nowhere near to grab a medal even at Golden Spin.

I'm not saying to "let her out" but instead let's see what she can do, and if she skates bad in both the short and the long the fed should not push her to Worlds anyway not matter what.

For example S/K after the disappointing outing at the europeans decided to WD worlds to prepare the season after, i think Gracie could do something like that if that is the case.

 

[ice coverage]

Sometimes athletes only talk within their own circle thus letting only the right people know at the right time (very professional and well managed). Having to speculate what Polina is doing or not doing simply means one is not in her circle.

The same thing goes for injury reports, there are always "injury reports" but these do not always mean there is an actual injury - social media, athletic depts PR, etc., are managed by the athlete, the athletes team and family to release what they want released, so then every one else can speculate.

Not sure why you quoted me -- b/c I don't think your post has any relation to mine.

But in case you misunderstood me, I will note that I never said anything about Polina or Team Polina being unprofessional.

I also do not understand your wording of "having to speculate."
No one is being forced to speculate. IMO, a far more sensible and preferable alternative is to be patient and to refrain from speculation until Polina comes forward with an official announcement as to her plans for Nats.

Some people are speculating because they want to speculate.
Their speculation -- even if repeated a million times -- should not be mistaken for or assumed to be facts or truth.

USFS itself has referred to Polina's recovery from injury.
And I do not think that USFS lets Team Polina manage what USFS says.

---

I get that Twitter is public reporting. My point, which I meant to imply and could follow from what you said, was that this info about Polina is probably confirmed and probably was on the record because Dave reported it publicly. Maybe Dave didn't report this info in more traditional way at the request of whoever gave it to him (maybe an official announcement is pending). Or, maybe you're right that he's unprofessional in reporting information that's either unconfirmed or not ready for attribution.

In any event, my guess is that his info is accurate and Polina won't be at Nationals.

Sorry that I missed your implication -- that your opinion is that Dave's tweeting is unto itself a sign that he prob. has confirmed information that is on the record.

If you are correct, then my opinion is that Dave was remiss for omitting any mention of sourcing. (I am not saying that I would expect him to give a specific name if a source does not want to be identified outright.)
"A reliable source working with Skater X has confirmed that X is not going to Nats," would be a more credible tweet than simply, "Skater X is not going to Nats." Dave is no dummy, and I'm sure he understands the difference btwn those two examples. He purposely chooses to follow the second.

 

[skatelikewind1966]

Never implied one way or the other that you, IC, said anything about Polina or Team Polina being unprofessional.

Dave's post was more than sufficient and I appreciate the report and do not think any additional information was needed nor do I think he has any obligation to provide anything more than he did.

And to think that individual skate Teams in the US or around the world do not "control" or "manage" what their respective Feds publicly print or say is not realistic.

 

[skylark]

One bad event is all it takes to lose spot. How does past accomplishments change the fact that 3 spots for next year is very shaky right now? you roll on the floor laughing too much you must have hit something and forget that even if she won 10 Olympics in a row, it doesn't change the dire situation this year. Quote away.

You called Ashley "not dependable." I only meant to say that one disappointing event doesn't make a skater undependable. Ashley's record proves that she's one of the most dependable. Didn't mean to offend you.

 

[Icey]

Ashley, Mirai and ? world team

 

[ice coverage]

... Dave's post was more than sufficient and I appreciate the report and do not think any additional information was needed nor do I think he has any obligation to provide anything more than he did. ...

Dave's tweet was not sufficient for me to accept his words as confirmed fact. YMMV.

And I do not take his tweet as a "report" of anything. YMMV.
As I said above, Dave's tweet could just as easily be construed as a guess. A pot-stirring guess that may turn out to be a good guess.

Dave of course has no obligation to say more than he did -- and I of course have no obligation to accept his tweet as anything more than unconfirmed rumor or speculation.

... And to think that individual skate Teams in the US or around the world do not "control" or "manage" what their respective Feds publicly print or say is not realistic.

Disagree. Individual teams of course discuss things with USFS behind closed doors, so to speak.
But I think it is unrealistic to assume that Team Polina has the leverage to force USFS to parrot whatever message Team Polina wants to send. YMMV.

 

[humbaba]

Wait a second i didn't say this: i thought she was great in the long program, but her short program was very bad at the point she could have not win nationals imo, Polina was better overall. (but still Gracie was good enough to grab a spot for Worlds, i'm not complaining this)

Yes, Gracie's scores in the SP are the issue. Gracie skated great in the FS and deserved to win that segment. But she had errors in the SP and the judges held her up. Had they not done that, her great free skate might not have been enough to push her past Polina. Team Polina has a legitimate argument that Polina should have won and I don't think it's fair to dismiss that argument as sour grapes.

I wanted Polina to win the championship last year, but I'm okay with Gracie as the gold medalist. It was that close.

 

[musicfan80]

I am still as to why USFS would assign Gracie to CS Golden Spin that unless they were convinced that she would win it.

If Gracie does well enough at U.S. Nationals to make the World Team, USFS really shouldn't send her to 4CCs again. And I'm not just saying that because I really want to see someone like Angela Wang go. If Angela goes to 4CCs, I am pretty sure that she would take it as a positive experience even if she made some mistakes. I can't imagine what skating badly there will do to Gracie.

 

[Tolstoj]

I am still as to why USFS would assign Gracie to CS Golden Spin that unless they were convinced that she would win it.

If Gracie does well enough at U.S. Nationals to make the World Team, USFS really shouldn't send her to 4CCs again. And I'm not just saying that because I really want to see someone like Angela Wang go. If Angela goes to 4CCs, I am pretty sure that she would take it as a positive experience even if she made some mistakes. I can't imagine what skating badly there will do to Gracie.

Actually Frank said in the past that she wanted to skate at 4CC every year despite she never performed well.

I guess she used these minor competitions as a test more than a real competition: at Golden Spin she hasn't even attempted the 3ltz-3T in the long (she did the same at 4CC)

On the other hand showing at these competitions without grabbing a medal, i don't think it's good for the ranking.

 

[R.D.]

Yes, Gracie's scores in the SP are the issue. Gracie skated great in the FS and deserved to win that segment. But she had errors in the SP and the judges held her up. Had they not done that, her great free skate might not have been enough to push her past Polina. Team Polina has a legitimate argument that Polina should have won and I don't think it's fair to dismiss that argument as sour grapes.

But Edmunds' score was inflated as well - so it all comes out in the wash at the end.

I think USFS got it right (for once!) with crowning Gold the winner. Yes, she's THAT much better than Edmunds at her best