State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17

[frida80]

I agree. As much as I like and respect Tom, Mirai's blank face began with him. I saw Mirai live at Nationals in 2011 and she was animated, fast, and exciting. I love so many things about Tom however, I think he needs to listen to Mirai's choreographers and not water down her transitions and focus so much on her tech score that she can no longer relax enough to perform like the Mirai of old. Mirai's Witches Of Eastwick SP was animated, fast, and exciting. If she could blend her old performance quality with her improved technical skills, she'd have no problem scoring above Mariah and Karen.

I sometimes think the USFS should hire a team therapist to help these skaters deal with pressure. After all the years that Mirai and Gracie have been skating, it truly shocks me that they still have these meltdown performances. I've seen Ashley lose but, I don't think I've ever seen her have a disaster skate. She may have but, I've never seen her drop the way that Karen did at 4cc. I'll be holding my breath through all the ladies at Worlds.

I disagree. The blank face started in 2011-2012 and got progressively worse from there. By the time she got to Tom that was an ingrained habit sadly.

I'll say again. Mirai's crappy season happened because she focused too much on choreography before she was confident in landing her jumps cleanly. It was a good decision to remove the transitions, so she could focus solely on the jumps. She just learned how to stop under rotating her jumps just last year. It takes a long time to break a bad habit like under rotating, which is the true reason she won't be going to worlds.

If Tom had focused on a bare program at the beginning of the season and gradually increased her transitions as she grew more confident, she would've had a much better season. The score she got at 4CC would've gotten her a bronze at SC. Many skaters start with more basic programs and grow them as the season progresses. Doing too much too soon stressed her out, caused her to over train, and made her nervous. Mirai can emote, she just needs time to become more consistent and confident in her programs.

 

[mrrice]

I disagree. The blank face started in 2011-2012 and got progressively worse from there. By the time she got to Tom that was an ingrained habit sadly.

I'll say again. Mirai's crappy season happened because she focused too much on choreography before she was confident in landing her jumps cleanly. It was a good decision to remove the transitions, so she could focus solely on the jumps. She just learned how to stop under rotating her jumps just last year. It takes a long time to break a bad habit like under rotating, which is the true reason she won't be going to worlds.

If Tom had focused on a bare program at the beginning of the season and gradually increased her transitions as she grew more confident, she would've had a much better season. The score she got at 4CC would've gotten her a bronze at SC. Many skaters start with more basic programs and grow them as the season progresses. Doing too much too soon stressed her out, caused her to over train, and made her nervous. Mirai can emote, she just needs time to become more consistent and confident in her programs.

I thought Mirai stopped training with Frank after 2011. So, I agree that from a performance standpoint, 2011 was the last year that she could whip the crowd into a frenzy. She got a screaming standing ovation for her 2011 SP and I think she won the SP over Alissa, didn't she?

 

[frida80]

I thought Mirai stopped training with Frank after 2011. So, I agree that from a performance standpoint, 2011 was the last year that she could whip the crowd into a frenzy. She got a screaming standing ovation for her 2011 SP and I think she won the SP over Alissa, didn't she?

She stopped training with Frank in 2012. Yes she won the SP 2011. But she's got a standing ovation since then. 2014 nationals was one of those times.

 

[chuckm]

She stopped training with Frank in 2012. Yes she won the SP 2011. But she's got a standing ovation since then. 2014 nationals was one of those times.

That was because 2014 Nationals was a comeback for Mirai---she placed 3rd in 2014 after two 7th place finishes in 2013 and 2012.

 

[frida80]

That was because 2014 Nationals was a comeback for Mirai---she placed 3rd in 2014 after two 7th place finishes in 2013 and 2012.

I'm well aware. 2013 was particularly sad since she had the flu during the free. Oddly Mirai has only fallen completely out of top four 4 times. Three of those times were health related. She's been oddly consistent at nationals when she's healthy and not dealing with growth spurts, illnesses and hitting the boards.

She really needs to have more confidence in herself.

 

[mrrice]

She stopped training with Frank in 2012. Yes she won the SP 2011. But she's got a standing ovation since then. 2014 nationals was one of those times.

Didn't she get a standing ovation for Demon's?

 

[mrrice]

I don't think "throughout her programs" is entirely accurate. At 4CC, she did come alive in the LP after her final 2A. Admittedly, this is a bit late to start selling your program to earn great marks but it isn't true that she's lifeless throughout, either.

That's a quality that she and Gracie have in common. IMO, that is what separates Ashley from those two. Ashley is always on.

 

[FlattFan]

That's a quality that she and Gracie have in common. IMO, that is what separates Ashley from those two. Ashley is always on.

Nothing's wrong with blank face. I don't see Carolina making any faces. Let your skating skills carry your PCS. Blank face is not a deduction.

 

[mrrice]

Nothing's wrong with blank face. I don't see Carolina making any faces. Let your skating skills carry your PCS. Blank face is not a deduction.

True....Especially with Carolina. However, I don't think Carolina has a blank face, I think she has a subtle smile that I find exquisite. She is also very fast, has perfect posture, and IMO, is a more mature performer. Of course, that's more of a preference of mine so it's no big deal.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

However, I don't think Carolina has a blank face, I think she has a subtle smile that I find exquisite.

Agreed, her smile gave her a look of confidence that radiated. Under the pressure of competing at the Olympics, she even smiled entering her most difficult element of the event: https://youtu.be/XN-ai_C6_68?t=1m23s

 

[andromache]

True....Especially with Carolina. However, I don't think Carolina has a blank face, I think she has a subtle smile that I find exquisite. She is also very fast, has perfect posture, and IMO, is a more mature performer. Of course, that's more of a preference of mine so it's no big deal.

Depends on what the music is. I agree that Carolina most often skates with an exquisite subtle smile, which goes well with her programs. But if she were to skate to "The Winner Takes it All" that expression might not work so well.

Plus, giving face is a good way to sell the audience on your performance if your choreography/transitions aren't all that great and/or difficult. (See: Ashley Wagner).

 

[chuckm]

Carolina K would never skate to The Winner Takes it All!!

 

[snowflake]

Agreed, her smile gave her a look of confidence that radiated. Under the pressure of competing at the Olympics, she even smiled entering her most difficult element of the event: https://youtu.be/XN-ai_C6_68?t=1m23s

oooooh, I'll never forget that bellissimo skating....

 

[mrrice]

Carolina K would never skate to The Winner Takes it All!!

True...I will never forget the first time I noticed Carolina. It was during the 2003/04 season. It was her Song From A Secret Garden SP. Spectacular... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuwrdXlFVRc

 

[FlattFan]

True...I will never forget the first time I noticed Carolina. It was during the 2003/04 season. It was her Song From A Secret Garden SP. Spectaculr... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuwrdXlFVRc

The entrance into that 3Loop solo jump is so amazing.
If Carolina skates to The Winner Takes it All with the serenity she has in Claire de Lune, she will still earn massive PCS. So, really, doesn't matter about the face! Face is not PCS.

 

[skylark]

Is this a trend in Tom Z's group? Max seems to do the same thing. As the season goes on the coreography disappears. That is absolutely no fault of the choreographer.

Yeah, you're right about Max. Here I go again, but Ashley said last year she scheduled periodic extra sessions with Shae-Lynne, so that if she got bored with it, and started leaving little things out, Shae would get her back on track, and also would change little parts of the choreography, which kept Ashley interested. That's where I think it's an advantage when the choreographer is right on site or close by.

Extra sessions with the choreographer cost money, and add to that the travel expenses. Reading between the lines, I had the idea that prize money was helping her be able to do this. And the travel is a factor for Mirai; I'm not sure about Max, is Phillip Mills at the Broadmoor? It could be as you suggest, that Tom is super-focused on keeping the jumps honed and ready and he's the one who makes the unkindest cuts.

 

[skylark]

Do you mean choreography/composition or transitions? The IJS makes a distinction. For the record, I do think what are called transitions are part of the choreography. It is another example of how the IJS potentially punishes(or rewards) skaters twice.

That's a good question. Johnny said choreography, but I don't know, maybe he meant transitions. Also, it's popular here on GS for people to talk about "empty choreography." Sometimes I've heard commentators like the B.Esp. guys praise that exact same skate for its choreography and "masterful" footwork. So definitions differ greatly.

I think people often talk about "empty choreography" as meaning steps, turns, and such. I think that's why the PCS category is called "composition." For the record, I think great choreography is about much more than steps, transitions, and the like. I also agree with some here who have said that sometimes, excessive maneuvers actually detract from the choreography, which is ideally closely linked to expressing the music and emotion. Honestly, I thought Mirai's 4cc skate was practically devoid of both, whichever definition.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think when people mean "blank face" for Mirai, they don't just mean her face. They also mean dropped choreography, lazier and sloppy carriage, droopy shoulders, no real attempt to move with meaning/conviction/clarity, and a real "concentrate on the jumps" demeanor that hinders people's perception of what she's giving out there.

Didn't last season have Mirai build up her programs? I remember "Demons" started out looking like an unfocused, self-choreographed (I know it wasn't) work but it kept building up all season until it was actually a program I enjoyed at Worlds. I also think her much maligned Gatsby LP worked for Mirai because it gave her appropriate sections to look serious but also choreographed stationary peppy dance sections with a fun beat that allowed Mirai to give the impression she was interpreting music throughout the routine even when she wasn't.

 

[skylark]

I think when people mean "blank face" for Mirai, they don't just mean her face. They also mean dropped choreography, lazier and sloppy carriage, droopy shoulders, no real attempt to move with meaning/conviction/clarity, and a real "concentrate on the jumps" demeanor that hinders people's perception of what she's giving out there.

:agree: Very well stated. I'm making a mental note of your phrase that I bolded. It's so important, in my worldview of excellent figure skating. That, or similar words, are right there in the explanations of judging, but when people are overly focused on the steps, etc., that often doesn't make it into the discussion.

Didn't last season have Mirai build up her programs? I remember "Demons" started out looking like an unfocused, self-choreographed (I know it wasn't) work but it kept building up all season until it was actually a program I enjoyed at Worlds. I also think her much maligned Gatsby LP worked for Mirai because it gave her appropriate sections to look serious but also choreographed stationary peppy dance sections with a fun beat that allowed Mirai to give the impression she was interpreting music throughout the routine even when she wasn't.

 

[andromache]

According to TSL, Tessa Hong will be returning to Frank Carroll. (Because he is a USFS consultant, it sounds like he had to clear taking Tessa on with them, and I was approved, probably with enthusiasm.)

Sounds like good news to me. Even though I felt Frank was no longer the right coach for Gracie, he's still a great coach. Why did Tessa leave in the first place? But tbh at his age I'm surprised he is taking on someone so young, but good for him!