Statement from USFS regarding Dave Lease

[Mathematician]

Maybe he is one of these sad people who think that it's either pro or nothing. I'm spending thousands Euros for my kid to train judo. There is very little chance he will go pro even on national level but as long as he enjoys it, I will fund his training. I don't think anyone has right to comment on this.

This is an oddly prevalent phenomena in skating. Usually I can reduce theories of reprehensible behaviour in the skating communities to one generally concerning sports fans in general, but not this what you are recognizing here. In other sports like martial arts, for example, fans tend to uplift and even offer larger praise to the competitor who lost but offered respectable resistance. Often top comments will be those such as "great job by (winner), but lets take a moment to appreciate (loser) because he is a wonderful athlete, humble guy and skilled fighter. I am a fan of (winner) but maximum respect to (loser)". In leagues like NBA or NFL, you get a lot more trolling and memes about players who are really good yet have a few bad games: LeBron becomes LeBrick, etc... but it is not earnest criticism; its presented in a comical way; it the culture. In serious issues the majority opinion tends to lean on sympathy, even if trolling will always be present. People often do love picking more average athletes and rooting until their voice gives out watching the kid improve over seasons and seasons... its so exciting when a more standard, unknown player does something incredible! In skating however the disposition is entirely serious and uncomical when we see people criticize athletes severely just for not being beyond perfect. There are no memes, just: "Quit. You are not good. Give it up. We do not care about you anymore. You had one good event/season. Enjoy retirement now." A certain nation's fanbase is most infamous. For example a certain female skater who was a silver national medalist last season (240), and still averaged over 200 this season (peaking over 220), who is still a teenager, received multiple comments from multiple users (on this forum alone) throughout the whole season that her career is categorically over and she should quit—amazing! Sincere and explicit statments; it was not subliminal. Consider also GS should be more intelligent and friendly than mass communities like another site, Telegram, TikTok. Oh, don't even bring up YT live chat... Even the current champion receives criticism, for what I do not know, ostensibly for not breaking the world record every skate because I am unsure what else could be the issue. I do not know why this mentality is so often present in skating specifically.

In Dave's case it seems a way to subliminally attach oneself to the achievement of others. As I understand he himself achieved nothing of actual, objective substance, and offers no intrinsic value, so perhaps by presenting elitist standards there is an attempt at a veneer of prestige by association: "I am serious. I dont enjoy games and play time on the ice. I am an expert. These parents dont understand the sport like I do. Casuals. Dont waste your money, chumps. No offence, I'm just helping you out, I know better. This sport is about excellency: Kaori and Yuzuru; these are my people!" Perhaps this suggests he is also sharing in some of the excellency we find in the sport! He is a sophisticated and elite aficionado of the discipline after all! In his world... Like, if one claims they will only court a man who is rich and tall, that must mean the lady herself if of high value too! I mean, its logical, right!?

P.S. Judo is awesome. Us North Americans are ignoramus regarding the sport and dont understand what it really means elsewhere, but the training it offers will for sure be valuable for your child both psychologically and physically.

Sure, there are plenty of fans who eat that up. I'm not one of them, but his over-the-top cattiness has a market. Don't believe me? There have been nearly a dozen different Real Housewives shows on television. I rest my case.

Correct, however, this was not "cattiness".

I heard he spreads rumours and gossip about Russian ladies, even with serious accusations about potential drug usage, and to be honest, as a Russian ladies fan, I do not care at all! In such an example you are right that it is just being edgy, "catty", targeting a market of likely younger audience; no problem! What can I do? I have held similar bias and corrosive dispositions regarding sports, arts and other such things when I was younger.

I do also enjoy characters and figures who can be moderately heinous and unchained. I can appreciate a Strickland for example despite often disagreeing with him. I would not consider his antics as chronically damaging to the long term well-being of people while with Dave I do feel in this way regarding this situation. I think what Dave did is not by any means less than verbal abuse in the net-effect it has caused especially considering its propagation across the internet. Even if such characters often slip up, offend some folk, maybe forget a couple moral standards... it is also true that pearl-clutching and censorship is rampant and such a disposition can even things out. Not only so, but it reflects what the average person is really like, and how we often just say things for catharsis, often mistakenly and imperfectly, rather than acting as media trained robots... this was not the same thing at all.

This issue was a direct disrespect of dead teenagers (and younger) with zero corollary edification or humour whatsoever (as if that would make it more acceptable). It is in appeal to nobody.

As for your other comments about what bans mean, I would not lament if ISU charged him within their ability, tangential to all things subject to ISU auspices, with something recognizing gross treatment of grieving skaters and parents, who are subjects of ISU's care and ultimate responsibility, and are already in a psychologically broken state. An action could be some sort of restriction from any presence in anything relating to ISU sanctioned happenings. It would not be a stretch at all to me suggesting he should not be allowed at ISU events or to partake in ISU sanctioned events in any way in protection of the psychological safety of athletes and justice for the victims. It is reasonable for this to be a specific, targeted action being this person is of community significance as demonstrated by ISU's acknowledgement of his statement and not just some random commenter. Justice is an end in itself outside of simple pragmatism. It would be justice for the parents and skaters to witness this individual openly and substantively punished, enduring some sort of physically actioned consequence for his impactful and meaningfully cruel treatment of their dead friends, children, parents, etc... Unsubstantiated doping accusations and stupid conspiracies are one thing, we will not ban everyone experiencing lapses in sympathy or leaking jealousy; maybe conspiratorial nature lending to fun little paracosmic mysteries. Yet, I cannot imagine what I would feel if someone brushed off my kid as a goofily unfortunate casualty who could've spared his life which concluded ultimately to little consequence if he was just "realistic" about his little 11 year old dreams. It is a sincere attack and affront to the long-term physical and mental well-being of people, and general morality and human conduct, regarding those who are already suffering some of the worst which one can suffer.

There definitely it a context element where a lot of people took something he said literally, when he was really speaking figuratively and trying to make a broader point about camps/clubs/coaches taking advantage of parents, and it's a discussion to be had (and isn't unique to figure skating), but during a tribute show is neither the time of the place for it.

I appreciate your attempt at cordial and fair treatment of Dave but frankly I did not at all see anywhere that which you are presenting here. There is zero context lost in what he said. "Figuratively"? Not sure what you mean, genuinely. He did not present a random point at the wrong time. He presented the clause and subject himself under the explicit context of a memorial event. It cannot be more obvious. He by his own unprovoked or prompted will said: "What makes me uncomfortable is that not everyone on that plane was that good at skating... it was not worth giving up your life... for skating... these people died, and yes they were in a development camp that they loved, but... they were being taken advantage of, because they were not going to make it in skating..."

The gaps above do not unfairly omit any context.

He adds that the families were "hook, line and sinker" — I will be nice and assume he meant the parents were taken advantage of, too, and not that they were part of this alleged conspiracy exploiting their own now personally survived children.

Anyways, he first admits they loved it then said they got taken advantage of because they were not "going to make it", and they "gambled their lives". He answered his own dilemma in the same breath, before even presenting it. What is he even talking about? What is the context?

Assume this hypothetical scenario:

"Hey Dave, I just think its sad some families spend so much money for their kids not to make it. What do you think?"

Dave could respond with the same statement he did including the passed children and then now claim he simply got mixed up in the context of the event and made a really stupid comment because his mind was processing two scenarios at once and he was just auto-pilot talking about whatever.

Extremely weak excuse, yet in theory tenable by some contrived explanation; however this did not happen! He CHOSE that clause, subject and context himself and started dragging their, again, implicitly inconsequential and wasted lives through the dirt, from the very beginning of his idea after having time to think about what he was going to start saying. It was in the first sentence (not slipping into the latter section of some long rant somehow). Adding again, total insult to injury that he clearly did not know anything about the victims or care about them at all considering Spencer was objectively beyond talented and could easily have made it. So then imagine how much worse being a parent watching this and see him say such things which are objectively untrue. Why would he even speak on this if he doesnt even know what hes talking about?? WTF! This could even be the worst part. Context only hurts him. I want to then repeat a quote someone posted in the official thread announcing the news:

RIP to all. To write many words or lamentation here is extra, its not our tragedy but theirs. I hope theres some solace for family members in the joy and art these athletes brought for people everywhere. I know how much skating means to me and adds to my life, and many like me; their life is no way in vain, the world is absolutely better for them having lived in it. I hope theres some honour knowing what they've given to such a beautiful discipline, I think some people live full lifetimes without contributing what these kids already have (though I know it doesn't compensate for the tragedy).

Above is true. There was no inconsequential living or dying in this situation and nobody wasted anything. In fact its insane that some parents might hear what he is saying and actually be convinced he is right and spiral into incalculable regret while already mourning, yet in reality having done everything possible to make their kids happy and be a loving parent.

Anyways, I have been condemning him hard here in this post, however I agree only with the point that he can be forgiven; I believe in such things for most scenarios (not all). I have said egregious things in my life as most have (though not under the context of a public influencer who knows he will be viewed by the families of the victims of his statement, but anyways), we are all human. If a murderer can be forgiven by a victim's parent, as we sometimes see in practice happen, so can he, but only if he candidly admits what he said is irredeemable by any context, completely evil and by his own choice aggressive and dismissive towards the memory of dead children, their implicitly wasted sad lives, and their surviving parents about whom he did not even know anything about. Thats putting it nicely. Then he can be at the mercy of public opinion; those inclined to forgive will and he cannot blame those who would not. People can forgive for the only cause that they are merciful and not because he presented some sound argument for being treated with leniency. As for weaselling out by any misunderstanding, no, not IMO. I disagree with anyone who is trying to soften this, despite their possibly pure and fair intentions.

 

[TallyT]

With all due respect (and please note I am not the one who brought him into the thread...)

This sport is about excellency: Kaori and Yuzuru; these are my people!

Don't you believe it. Lease was in the forefront of the "lovers of skating" calling for Yuzuru to be done and gone and out of their sight pretty much from the moment the lights went down in Pyeongchang, all the while milking his name for clicks. Then when Yuzuru did leave competition, Lease was again one of the loudest ones sneering and mocking his ideas for pro skating and plans for his shows... riiiiiight up to the nanosecond it became bleedin' obvious that said shows were bigger, more successful, more celebrated than anything the entire ISU/feds could put on, then all of a sudden it was "oh but he has a duty to bring and share all that with the rest of figure skating!"

My point being not about Yuzu himself, but that no one - absolutely no one except perhaps those who gave him info and interviews like Meagan Duhamel - was good enough to avoid being dumped on when it suited him. This time however, the dumping was on the raw grief of parents who'd just lost their children.

 

[Magill]

This sport is about excellency: Kaori and Yuzuru; these are my people!"

With all due respect (and please note I am not the one who brought him into the thread...)

Don't you believe it. Lease was in the forefront of the "lovers of skating" calling for Yuzuru to be done and gone and out of their sight pretty much from the moment the lights went down in Pyeongchang, all the while milking his name for clicks. Then when Yuzuru did leave competition, Lease was again one of the loudest ones sneering and mocking his ideas for pro skating and plans for his shows... riiiiiight up to the nanosecond it became bleedin' obvious that said shows were bigger, more successful, more celebrated than anything the entire ISU/feds could put on, then all of a sudden it was "oh but he has a duty to bring and share all that with the rest of figure skating!"

My point being not about Yuzu himself, but that no one - absolutely no one except perhaps those who gave him info and interviews like Meagan Duhamel - was good enough to avoid being dumped on when it suited him. This time however, the dumping was on the raw grief of parents who'd just lost their children.

Very true. Dave Lease may be a poster boy for those who were pushing Yuzuru out when he was in, and demanded him back in when he was out but having taken with him all his fans along with their money and their clicks. So "Kaori and Yuzuru" as an example of whom he praised is just completely missing the point.
And yet, having said that, mocking dead children and their parents is really falling to a new low.

 

[Mathman]

It would be justice for the parents and skaters to witness this individual openly and substantively punished, enduring some sort of physically actioned consequence (from yje ISU) for his impactful and meaningfully cruel treatment of their dead friends, children, parents, etc...

Well, you have left us with a long post to digest.

The line in quotes above, though, caught my eye. It is not clear to me that the grieving skating community would derive any comfort, solace, or feeling that justice has been served by expelling anyone from ISU sponsored activities. I think that the USFSA hit the right note with its response. We deplore and vigorously contest Leese's remarks, There is nothing more to be said, IMHO.

 

[JeanA]

He basically said that the children that died were not that good or talented. Just a heartless statement/opinion. Very typical for TSL.

But to be fair, he was talking about coaches that were taking advantage of young skaters and their parents...and the "not talented" remark happened to slip in there.

I saw the video clip, and I was so unnerved by his comments. DURING A TRIBUTE SHOW honoring those who died in a plane crash!!! Wtf? He is so vile. And who cares if they didn't have the talent to go anywhere in skating? I've seen clips of him skating and I guess he would know about not having talent for skating. I didn't understand his point either. Is he blaming their interest in skating for their deaths? Not all skaters get into skating to "go somewhere" in the sport. Perhaps they just loved to skate and wanted to maximize their abilities? I went to tennis camp for years which wasn't cheap and I knew what my talent level was (ie, not a future pro) but I loved the game. His remarks were deplorable, especially considering that he was talking about children that were killed. smdh

 

[Anna K.]

Maybe he is one of these sad people who think that it's either pro or nothing.

Well, that's interesting. What's his vision of "either pro or nothing"? No beginners, no skating children, just ready-made pros getting unpacked somewhere?

Just asking.

 

[Anna K.]

I think that the USFSA hit the right note with its response. We deplore and vigorously contest Leese's remarks, There is nothing more to be said, IMHO.

Yup.
The only people who are able to do, not say, are TSL Patrons.
I am somehow skeptical regarding them withdrawing en masses. They are used to this content for years after all.
At most, we can expect a widened gap between figure skating community and this segment of the audience.

 

[Karoltyna]

Well, that's interesting. What's his vision of "either pro or nothing"? No beginners, no skating children, just ready-made pros getting unpacked somewhere?

Just asking.

Not sure, but he commented that a 12 yo was not talented enough, so his vision may be wilder than I can imagine...
His statement doesn't make any sense. The earlier level the more competitors and it is a neccessity, there must be a large pool on early stages. It's not a given that those with biggest talent will go further, often it's the other way around, the ones motivated, with work ethics and resources go up and ones with greater natural talent walk away from the sport for various reasons. There was a girl in my hometown that was indeed talented but she didn't get along with coach in our club - at this time there was only 1 club in second biggest city in PL, now we are oh so lucky, we've got 2 clubs and 1 icerink that will shut down in May... The nearest decent club, with coach who wanted her there, was in the city about 70 km away. She was 12 and had 4 siblings. The training started at 6.30 am, so no chances for her parents to drive her each day to the icerink. She would need to go to the boarding school to train there. She said she isn't ready to leave her family and walked away from the sport. What I meant to say is that talent is important but is not enough.

 

[Magill]

Not to take away any inch of Dave Leese's personal responsibility for each one of his words, but most of online bullying, snark remarks and toxicity goes on because there are people willing to give their clicks and time - and often money - to follow such content and therefore give the verbal abusers their nod that what they are doing is okay and welcome. Pretending it is not what it is forms a part of the problem. And so many fans are okay with this as long as it is not about their faves but about someone they do not like or care for anyway, or see as a rival to their favourites. A chance for a sneer is so welcome until you realize the joke was on you. The current unified response came about only because attacking dead kids with snark remarks is not to anyone's liking and because it came at the time of the mourning.
I guess he's okay even with angry comments and online criticism as it just gives him attention and visibility, and even more clicks. Even now there are probably people who first heard of him because of these disastrous comments and the public response to them, and - if his blog was still on - they would go there to check, out of curiosity, giving him even more clicks and more reasons to go on in the same toxic way.
And as long as people reward him with clicks, money and attention, why would he change... ?

 

[Mathematician]

Well, you have left us with a long post to digest.

The line in quotes above, though, caught my eye. It is not clear to me that the grieving skating community would derive any comfort, solace, or feeling that justice has been served by expelling anyone from ISU sponsored activities. I think that the USFSA hit the right note with its response. We deplore and vigorously contest Leese's remarks, There is nothing more to be said, IMHO.

Well, I dont know, but personally if I were affected I would indeed be comforted by actionable consequences, in demonstration of the seriousness ISU has to the skaters under its auspice and respect for my children's memory. Anyways, I am not actually particularly invested, I just felt a lot like typing yesterday.

@TallyT @Magill Thanks for letting me know he even trashed on Yuzu. Didnt expect that. Like I said I dont really know this guy. Suppose it could've presumptuous then for me to psychoanalyze him. Little different though still, he could criticize Yuzu for one thing but still invoke him as an example of excellency while patronizing casual athletes for a veneer of prestige. I think from the little extra I gathered from the comments I read here is that this man's motives are not clear. He is disorganizedly corrosive in general for the sake of it or some unknown complex reason. We can only speculate. Probably best thing for us as random fans to do is ignore him and hope hes forgotten into irrelevancy as much as possible.

 

[Mathman]

...over-the-top cattiness ( a la Leese) has a market. Don't believe me? There have been nearly a dozen different Real Housewives shows on television. I rest my case.

OT -- Don’t get me started. Shows like the Housewives do staggering harm to society.

Aristotle taught that women are irreparably inferior to men because men possess an impotent organ that women lack — a brain. (Or at least, telos -- the ratiomal part of human intellect that drives us toward a higher purpose than dumb beasts are capable of.)

Twenty-three hundred years later, the Real Housewives continue to preach Aristotelianism. America has never elected a woman president, and it looks like we never will. Meanwhile a progressive modern state like Pakistan — no problem.

(OK, Benazir Butto, having served two terms as Prine Minister was assassinated in 2007 for her temerity. No country is perfect.)

 

[TontoK]

OT -- Don’t get me started. Shows like the Housewives do staggering harm to society.

More OT - but I think it's allowed because we've about beat the current topic to death.

It's not just the Housewives... but honestly, I can't comment with perfect understanding because I've only seen clips... enough to know that's not for me. It amazes me that with so many options, my wife and I complain that there's nothing on TV. Obviously, there is plenty, but hardly anything worth watching. My go-to is YouTube, where I can find some history, documentaries, and of course my pile of favorite skating performances to re-enjoy.

When I taught, I'd keep whatever book I was reading on my desk to enjoy during lunch. The kids thought I was some kind of genius, just because I read. One of them found reading to be boring, so I asked if he'd ever watched a TV show called Extreme Couponers (something like that), and of course he had. They all had. I pointed out that he thought I was spending my time on a boring activity, while he was lounging around the house watching strangers do their grocery shopping.

Marx had it wrong. The real "opiate of the masses" is television.

Current Book: Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. It's been on my "I'll get to it" list for a few years. I've finally gotten to it.

 

[Karoltyna]

More OT - but I think it's allowed because we've about beat the current topic to death.

It's not just the Housewives... but honestly, I can't comment with perfect understanding because I've only seen clips... enough to know that's not for me. It amazes me that with so many options, my wife and I complain that there's nothing on TV. Obviously, there is plenty, but hardly anything worth watching. My go-to is YouTube, where I can find some history, documentaries, and of course my pile of favorite skating performances to re-enjoy.

When I taught, I'd keep whatever book I was reading on my desk to enjoy during lunch. The kids thought I was some kind of genius, just because I read. One of them found reading to be boring, so I asked if he'd ever watched a TV show called Extreme Couponers (something like that), and of course he had. They all had. I pointed out that he thought I was spending my time on a boring activity, while he was lounging around the house watching strangers do their grocery shopping.

Marx had it wrong. The real "opiate of the masses" is television.

Current Book: Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari. It's been on my "I'll get to it" list for a few years. I've finally gotten to it.

Please, step away from this topic as I'm working in media and am tempted to write a really ugly rant about tv and internet these days... BTW when I was about 10 yo, kids from my block thought that my family was so very rich because we had so many books and only rich people spend money on somethig as useless and expensive as books. We weren't rich, we were just an average family, only my parents didn't spend money on alcohol. Yup, polish postsoviet blocks of the '90 were amazing place

 

[noskates]

What I think it boils down to is there are insensitive, self-absorbed rude and mean people everywhere. I honestly think the collective "we" have given Dave Lease more attention over this matter than he even deserved. When I read outrageous and disgusting remarks in the media, or hear them, I just try to ignore them and move on. I think anyone in their right mind would agree that he was totally out of line and that there is something wrong with the guy. But don't give him any more attention. Rehashing and showing outrage just feeds his ego. The USFSA did the right thing.

 

[Mathman]

Well, that's interesting. What's his vision of "either pro or nothing"? No beginners, no skating children, just ready-made pros getting unpacked somewhere?

Just asking.

I think that the best gloss that cn be put on Leese's ill-timed words would be something like this. Parents should think twice before they take their children out of school, ship them across the country to train with a prestigious coach, mortgage their home to pay for lessons, all in the hope that lightning might strike. Let them have a "normal" childhood, education and social development first.

Leese's mistakes were two-fold. First, it seems indecently callous to initiate such a discussion against the backdrop of heart-wrenching tragedy. Second, about 'talent," these particular skaters were competitors at the national championship level. So shiut up, Dave.

I do have to say, though, with all due apologies to Magill and TallyT that I am not carried off in outrage about someone saying, "I think Hanyu is done and he should retire." Meh. Yuzuru is a big boy. He can console himself with the 30 billion yen he has in his bank account and with the adoration of millions of fans throughout the world.

I would love to see a clip of Hanyu doubling up his first and telling Leese, "I got your retirement right here, chump."

 

[TallyT]

I think that the best gloss that cn be put on Leese's ill-timed words would be something like this. Parents should think twice before they take their children out of school, ship them across the country to train with a prestigious coach, mortgage their home to pay for lessons, all in the hope that lightning might strike. Let them have a "normal" childhood, education and social development first.

Leese's mistakes were two-fold. First, it seems indecently callous to initiate such a discussion against the background of heart-wrenching tragedy. Second, about 'talent," these particular skaters were competitors at the national championship level. So shiut up, Dave.

I do have to say, though, with all due apologies to Magill and TallyT that I am not carried off in outrage about someone saying, "I think Hanyu is done and he should retire. Meh. Yuzuru is a big boy. He can console himself with the 30 billion yen he has in his bank account and with the adoration of millions of fans throughout the world.

I would love to see a clip of Hanyu doubling up his first and telling Leese, "I got your retirement right here, chump."

Hey, I am not saying that Yuzu was particularly wounded by Lease, who is really a gnat (the sheer amount of gnats, some in positions of power, wore him down as he has indicated with oblique but perfect politeness, but he is also proof that living well is the best revenge, true?) I was just replying to the idea that Yuzuru was one of those he lauded. In fact, from what I have read, he had/has a beef with most of the top male stars of recent years - Yuzuru, Shoma, Nathan, Jason, Ilia Malinin. No one was good enough. So why he thought anyone should skate for his and the public's pleasure is a mystery.

Anyway, back to the point at issue... I hope all commentators (and yes, Tara and Johnny I am looking at you) will at least for a while take a bit more care to leaven honesty with kindness. But "it will pass... and no doubt more quickly than it should."

 

[moonvine]

This is the perfect encapsulation. I tend to fall in categories 2 and partly 3. Yes, I enjoyed the guests, and he may be able to rebound professionally. But as I stated earlier, I doubt he'll attract the quality of guests he's had in the past, which would eliminate the segments of TSL I value. Could he continue to with his programming by gossiping with the opera singer and that other guy (who is even worse)? Sure, there are plenty of fans who eat that up. I'm not one of them, but his over-the-top cattiness has a market. Don't believe me? There have been nearly a dozen different Real Housewives shows on television. I rest my case.

But I am flummoxed by the concept of a "ban." Ban from what? Ban how? Are we planning to dispatch armed thugs to break his arms and prevent him from posting on social media? Are we going to firebomb his internet provider? Are we going to seek a gag order? All of this talk of a ban is nonsense.

I suppose we could lobby USFSA to rescind his press credentials, but did he have those in the first place? I honestly don't know. But we can't prevent him from buying tickets to events or watching them on the internet.

Stated earlier in thread USFS rescinded his press credentials some years ago. I don’t think he ever got them back.

We've all had a chance to express outrage. But honestly, there's no next step.

He'll decide to come back, or he won't. He'll attract guests, or he won't. He'll reevaluate his life and his brand, or he won't. You'll watch, or you won't. That last one is the only one that you, as an individual, can impact. The others are out of our hands.

I never watched and will never.

 

[Anna K.]

I think that the best gloss that cn be put on Leese's ill-timed words would be something like this. Parents should think twice before they take their children out of school, ship them across the country to train with a prestigious coach, mortgage their home to pay for lessons, all in the hope that lightning might strike.

The truth is though, you need a lightning strike for this investment to go wrong rather than the opposite. So, I don't think that it was bad timing; Mr Leese simply grabbed the only opportunity that exists to sell this point.

I remember a story one Latvian mother told. She was taking her child to figure skating group lessons and she noticed an obsessed dad who made his child do double on everything the coach said and kept running around the rink instructing his 6 y.o. relentlessly: "Come on, baby, stretch your leg! Do it once more! Do one more lap!" She said the progress of the obsessed dad's girl and the other children, including her child, was night and day. In one year, the obsessed dad's girl was skating on an entirely different level and her family moved to Canada for better training opportunities. The teller had feelings so mixed that she shared this story publicly.
That girl's name was Signe Ronka. She never became an Olympic champion; she didn't even make the national team if I am correct. But I have not caught her complaining about having a rough childhood or too few opportunities in her life because of skating; or, that she or her family regretted moving to Canada. Tbh I think she won a lot; it simply did not include any prestigious medals.

Figure skating demands investment, both time and money investment. That's just a fact. You need to manage your investments wisely, taking in account different interests and possibilities, including the risk assessment That's also a fact.
However, if the only way how to return an investment in figure skating is bringing home an Olympic gold medal, it means then that figure skating as a trade is doomed. I hope it's not so.

 

[Karoltyna]

The truth is though, you need a lightning strike for this investment to go wrong rather than the opposite. So, I don't think that it was bad timing; Mr Leese simply grabbed the only opportunity that exists to sell this point.

I remember a story one Latvian mother told. She was taking her child to figure skating group lessons and she noticed an obsessed dad who made his child do double on everything the coach said and kept running around the rink instructing his 6 y.o. relentlessly: "Come on, baby, stretch your leg! Do it once more! Do one more lap!" She said the progress of the obsessed dad's girl and the other children, including her child, was night and day. In one year, the obsessed dad's girl was skating on an entirely different level and her family moved to Canada for better training opportunities. The teller had feelings so mixed that she shared this story publicly.
That girl's name was Signe Ronka. She never became an Olympic champion; she didn't even make the national team if I am correct. But I have not caught her complaining about having a rough childhood or too few opportunities in her life because of skating; or, that she or her family regretted moving to Canada. Tbh I think she won a lot; it simply did not include any prestigious medals.

Figure skating demands investment, both time and money investment. That's just a fact. You need to manage your investments wisely, taking in account different interests and possibilities, including the risk assessment That's also a fact.
However, if the only way how to return an investment in figure skating is bringing home an Olympic gold medal, it means then that figure skating as a trade is doomed. I hope it's not so.

Signe skates to this day and coaches. She seems to truly love both skating and coaching. I like her videos and the way she breaks the exercises and shows what and why is apropriate for each level of advancement. She makes you understand skating and I think it would be fun to train with her in person.
Thx for this story. If she does what she loves, she is the winner. She won her life, what else do you need to win?
PS maybe dad was obsessed bc he knew his child and knew skating will make her happy and will stay with her forever.

 

[gkelly]

The truth is though, you need a lightning strike for this investment to go wrong rather than the opposite.

Not sure what you mean here.

There are a lot of ways that investment in a competitive skating career can "go wrong."

I think we can agree that not making it to Worlds or Olympics doesn't qualify as "wrong." Skaters can have satisfying careers without those specific accomplishments.

But there are other things that can happen.

Serious injuries that not only end a competitive career early but can affect the skater negatively for the rest of their life.

Abuse of various kinds from various sources including overzealous parents, eating disorders, other mental health issues as a result of the above, financial ruin for a family that invests more than they can afford on the bet that a skater will make it big, etc.

I think all those things happen in skating (and other sports) more often than what I would consider a "lightning strike."
I also think they are not the norm.

And in some cases (especially in the case of injuries by skaters who have achieved their skating goals), the skater might believe it was worth it.

And I would trust most parents rather than outsiders to make wise decisions for their kids about how much to push their skaters to achieve, how far to support their dreams. What's right for one kid might be wrong for another.