Statement from USFS regarding Dave Lease

[Mathman]

His mouth worked faster than his brain.

In my opinion, where Mr. Leese was at fault was to conflate the issues of the tragic lose of life in the plane crash with his perspective about coaches making unrealistic promises to parents about their children's skating careers. If Leese had stuck to voicing concerns abput coaching, well, people can agree or disagree with his views, whatever.

But by linking the two, Leese came off like a total jerk and invited universal censure.

 

[Jontor]

In my opinion, where Mr. Leese was at fault was to conflate the issues of the tragic lose of life in the plane crash with his perspective about coaches making unrealistic promises to parents about their children's skating careers. If Leese had stuck to voicing concerns abput coaching, well, people can agree or disagree with his views, whatever.

But by linking the two, Leese came off like a total jerk and invited universal censure.

I think the whole discussion of who is talented or not is an impossible subject. We can never know for sure who will make it big. Other factors like pure grit, determination, nerves etc might play a big part. And we must remember that there are loads and loads of very talented skaters that never make it too...

Shcherbakova. She was always looked upon as the #3 girl when the trio of Trusova/Kostornaia/Shcherbakova hit the senior scene. But Shcherbakova was the one who won three national titles in a row (one could argue that is more difficult than winning Worlds), then a World title and an Olympic title. She had this magic gift to deliver when it mattered.

And if we go back 26 years, Maria Butyrskaya was the first woman to win Worlds for Russia in 1999 at the age of 26, even though everyone in the skating community (both domestic and international) had told her for years and years that she wasn't talented and would never achieve anything. And yet she managed to do something that no Russian woman had done before.

So, the whole discussion of kids who are talented or not is totally irrelevant imo. TSL was just producing more opinions/statements which often are presented as truths. So for me, the whole discussion AND the mentioning of the victims were both real bad.

 

[CoyoteChris]

In my opinion, where Mr. Leese was at fault was to conflate the issues of the tragic lose of life in the plane crash with his perspective about coaches making unrealistic promises to parents about their children's skating careers. If Leese had stuck to voicing concerns abput coaching, well, people can agree or disagree with his views, whatever.

But by linking the two, Leese came off like a total jerk and invited universal censure.

Exactly. He didnt think about what he was saying before he said it. I have been guilty of that but try to do a better job now. I hope he truely has learned from this mistake and trys to be a better person. That is why I prefer to read the written word in important matters. He would be better off actually writing a column so he has to go over his words first and not talk with verbal disjointed diareha as he is want to do.

 

[4everchan]

Skating at the highest level is anyway, not for many to achieve, just like in all sports and fine arts. Very few will make a career out of it. So it is, in my opinion a stupid thing to say on its own. People take on sport for many reasons. It really belongs to them and only them why they are doing it. Parents are willing to pay knowing that their kids will most likely not become Michelle Kwan. They're supporting their kids, because they want to give them something else in life. It is the same in my field : very few will become soloists but parents are willing to pay because it gives their kids a purpose other than school. It gives them discipline, perseverance, confidence, a circle of friends sharing the same passion, and many opportunities to achieve something meaningful to THEM.

That someone calling his show the skating lesson doesn't get that process is so much more than results shows that this individual has absolutely no clue what they're even talking about.

Most of my kids, develop other talents than music that accompany them forever. It is so short-sighted to even not see that these young skaters were more than skaters but perhaps future physicians, lawyers and parents to kids who may have skated too.

To me it is clear that this person is not only lacking tact and empathy but majorly lacking common sense. Again, a very little and vile person with no decency nor compassion.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Ref: Sadya..."I have mixed feelings about TSL. Sometimes I appreciated their material and at other times they were annoying or worse. But talking like this about these children is the worst. If he wanted a discussion about some coaches possibly telling parents that untalented children had talent, just to take their money, then he could have done that in a separate video at a different time. He should have left the victims of this tragedy out of this.....

This has also made me think about myself, my part in society. Without wanting to and without meaning to, somehow perhaps we enable this kind of behaviour too. I'm not sure. I still have to start my day, clear my mind. Not saying that Lease is innocent then. Of course Lease is responsible for his own actions."

Two very important points there.....
Your first. Yes, there should have been a separate generalized vid. If you are a coach, you walk a line. You dont just fire your students Like Chris and Alexa were fired....delivering the messages and truths you want them to know has to be diplomatic and sensitive....if your student doesnt do well in a comp, you still support them, but you give your honest opinion in a diplomatic way to your clients (usually parents) as to their son or daughter's progression. But there is no need to be negative. None of us is perfect...few will walk away from the sport with an OGM. But everyone deserves the chance to top out at some level, like Choi Dab-in. I would hope there are very few coaches who would encourage students to keep spending bucks if they are topped out and heading down, without at least being positive and honest with them....just to take their money.

Point two. Many do enable others who are acting badly. The mob mentality...we have seen it for years in both sides of the media. The media tries its best to use mob mentality for their own political ends and very carefully words stories to accomplish this as well as make up terms that soften or hardened the effects of those words....makes me sick to watch any flavor of US news. So, does/did TLS use this approach? Frankly, I havent been able to stand to listen to him/them long enough to tell....but that mentality has worked for centuries.....and not only in 1938....witness what happened to orphans in California who only knew love from Catholic nuns...the US Army ripped them out of the orphanages and sent them to "relocation centers" (sic) to "protect them" ...where the machine guns pointed in, because they looked Japanese....We should not enable the news or TSL to use mob mentality.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Skating at the highest level is anyway, not for many to achieve, just like in all sports and fine arts. Very few will make a career out of it. So it is, in my opinion a stupid thing to say on its own. People take on sport for many reasons. It really belongs to them and only them why they are doing it. Parents are willing to pay knowing that their kids will most likely not become Michelle Kwan. They're supporting their kids, because they want to give them something else in life. It is the same in my field : very few will become soloists but parents are willing to pay because it gives their kids a purpose other than school. It gives them discipline, perseverance, confidence, a circle of friends sharing the same passion, and many opportunities to achieve something meaningful to THEM.

That someone calling his show the skating lesson doesn't get that process is so much more than results shows that this individual has absolutely no clue what they're even talking about.

Most of my kids, develop other talents than music that accompany them forever. It is so short-sighted to even not see that these young skaters were more than skaters but perhaps future physicians, lawyers and parents to kids who may have skated too.

To me it is clear that this person is not only lacking tact and empathy but majorly lacking common sense. Again, a very little and vile person with no decency nor compassion.

I do have to say that many of us have evil indecent thoughts but we are wise enough to not verbalize them. I still maintain he put his mouth into gear before his brain was in gear and was shooting from the hip...or he would have never uttered such gibberish.
Of course skating or dedication to many sports , no matter how high you climb, makes you a better person and a better citizen and wise coaches like Misato Komatsubara or Fumie Suguri know this. You can see it in the way they talk about their students....Neither won Oly gold....neither did MK...MK is not a failure,,,as she said, "Hey, I didnt loose the gold, I won the silver" Maybe TSL should concentrate a bit more on the positive aspects of skating and what makes a good skater and a good world citizen and a good person....but if they do encounter evil they can prove, I say fire away.....tyrants are out there and if we dont all stand up for the good and blast them, they win.

 

[saine]

I do have to say that many of us have evil indecent thoughts but we are wise enough to not verbalize them. I still maintain he put his mouth into gear before his brain was in gear and was shooting from the hip...or he would have never uttered such gibberish.

Given the number of skaters that liked and shared the USFS statement on Instagram, I don't think this is simply a case of him putting his mouth into gear before he could think. I follow mainly Canadian skaters there, several of them have shared it and liked it. Skaters from all nationalities have been affected by his words over the years.

It's been a pattern of him making statements that the skaters have had to put up with and this went too far for USFS to ignore. It's not an "Oops, I spoke before I could think!" when he's been doing it for years. It's a case where he went too far when he was doing a review of a memorial show of all things. People like his style of 'keeping it real' and are willing to pay for it on Patreon. He was being paid to speak like that.

 

[Mathman]

It is the same in my field : very few will become soloists but parents are willing to pay because it gives their kids a purpose other than school. It gives them discipline, perseverance, confidence, a circle of friends sharing the same passion, and many opportunities to achieve something meaningful to THEM.

Well said.

 

[Violet Sky]

What was said on another site about the lives loss on that tragic plane crash were horrific. In addition, to that DL’s recap of LOI was harsh, critical, towards some of the skaters who performed from what they wore, to how they skated and the music chosen and who participated. There was a lack of empathy of for all those lives loss but especially towards the next generation of the sport; to the skaters who provided emotional and heartfelt performances for those lives and for the community to come together in that moment. Saw on YT short videos of Skate for 28 in Chicago and others in that tragic plane crash. Thank you USFS for calling TSL out and condemning those comments.

 

[sadya]

Most skaters, when asked what skating means to them, will say it teaches them discipline, focus, gives them friendships they'd otherwise not have, encourages them to push themselves, gives them more self confidence, etc. They learn many life skills and gain friendschips for life, most without ever medalling. I think it was Kwan who once said that you have to like the process, you train many hours a day, not just on the ice, but also in the gym for example. It's difficult to keep doing this without liking the process.

I remember some excellent junior skaters, who I haven't seen in senior competition or they didn't last long in senior competitions. Even if you're good in juniors, that still doesn't guarantee succes in seniors. I never heard any of these skaters say they regretted taking up skating.

 

[FSFan1999]

I clearly interpreted the original quote very differently to most people, so I kind of understand what he intended to say - the risk not being dying on airplane crashes, or that the kids on the airplane were untalented - but rather that many skaters at the camp itself were having to relocate homes and drop out of school on a false promise.

That being said, I dont really want to defend Dave lease (and my interpretation might be incorrect reguardless), and he should have saved anything for future videos.

I will add though - the fact that almost the entire skating community celebrates his downfall including people he would have considered friends, shows that in general, he has to look in the mirror for a long time and consider if this is how he wants to be as a person.

 

[Mathman]

I kind of understand what he intended to say - -... that many skaters at the camp itself were having to relocate homes and drop out of school on a false promise.

True, one needs to maintain a sense of proportion. Don't renounce your citizenship searching for the perfect pairs partner.

I have a dear, dear friend who, following double knee replacement surgery at age 72 took it in her head that she wanted to try ballroom dancing. She arranged for some lessons and took pride and pleasure in learning the basic steps of each dance. But what she really, really, really liked was the hair, makeup, gown and dramatic facial expressions. She entered every competition she could find, usually coming in last, and had a ball.

And when the instructor started in with his spiel, "Oh Mrs. ____, you have such a marvelous natural sense of rhythm. If you just sign up for our thousand dollar package, we'll have you tripping the light fantastic in no time!" -- she would bat her eyes at the young man and gush, "Oh my! Do you really think so?" -- and everyone would have a good laugh.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

In my opinion, where Mr. Leese was at fault was to conflate the issues of the tragic lose of life in the plane crash with his perspective about coaches making unrealistic promises to parents about their children's skating careers. If Leese had stuck to voicing concerns abput coaching, well, people can agree or disagree with his views, whatever.

But by linking the two, Leese came off like a total jerk and invited universal censure.

What he said was not some kind of accident or the result of haste. This man made a name for himself on dirty statements, lies, speculation and gossip. Often his disgusting statements, however, caused applause from people who were negatively disposed towards a certain skater, or a certain figure skating school, or even a certain country.

Receiving applause for his brazen lies and dirt, Dave eventually got used to the fact that the rules of decency do not apply to him, to the fact that he can do anything. And so he came to a completely natural result. However, the fact that you already find some rationality in part of his statement, and other people assume that the poor guy turned on his tongue before his brain, indicates that he will soon be forgiven and will be applauded again.

 

[Jeanie19]

What he said was not some kind of accident or the result of haste. This man made a name for himself on dirty statements, lies, speculation and gossip. Often his disgusting statements, however, caused applause from people who were negatively disposed towards a certain skater, or a certain figure skating school, or even a certain country.

Receiving applause for his brazen lies and dirt, Dave eventually got used to the fact that the rules of decency do not apply to him, to the fact that he can do anything. And so he came to a completely natural result. However, the fact that you already find some rationality in part of his statement, and other people assume that the poor guy turned on his tongue before his brain, indicates that he will soon be forgiven and will be applauded again.

He will never be forgiven by me. For this statement and all the other vile things that he has said.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I can count on one hand the times I tuned in to watch TSL. What he said is despicable and just shows the person he really is. I hope this time people have long memories and just ignore him and his website whenever he turns up next. He'll get no attention from me.

 

[TontoK]

Tagging on to the conversation with @Mathman and @FSFan1999

I, too, can see the point he was trying to make, although VERY poorly. His delivery and his comments about these children were appalling, and I'm not excusing that.

Mathman mentions perspective... skaters renouncing citizenship to form a pair, and I also have to bring up skaters actually getting married at 17 for the sake of skating. It's nuts.

And YES, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, there are coaches and organizations that will absolutely wring every dollar they can get. I laughed at Mathman's friend taking up ballroom dancing.

Here's my case study. When TontoJr was young, my wife and I enrolled him in Taekwando. It's a good activity, instills discipline, focus, physical activity, fosters respect, etc etc. Highly recommend, but with your eyes open.

So, there's a monthly fee, which entitles the child to come to formal practices. These are well organized, consistently structured, led by experienced adults, offered every day of the week at various times, including evenings... no complaints at all.

But... you need to buy the outfit (I'm forgetting what it's called) from them, because it has the embroidered patch you have to have. Oh, you want to break boards during practice... and what child doesn't... you buy those from us, too. We are hosting a competition this weekend, where you can watch your kid show off their skills!! Great, a fee for that, too. Oh, and don't forget to buy your ticket for the awards banquet where we'll hand out the awards your child won. Time to test for a higher belt! Good news, we're hosting the test, you'll need to pay for that, and don't forget to buy the next color belt that your child has won! What? Christmas already? It's time for our annual celebration where every child in attendance will receive a trinket of some sort - get your tickets now. What's that? We're now offering traditional Korean sword fighting classes! I bet your kid wants to do that! Just a small bit tacked on to the monthly fee will cover it... but there's a different uniform for that, and you'll need the wooden practice swords and the ceremonial sword, and oh yeah, we're having competitions for that, too... It NEVER ended.

Luckily, we were in a position financially to do this... and it was a good experience overall, and I don't regret it... but in retrospect, what a racket!

 

[Mathman]

Receiving applause for his brazen lies and dirt, Dave eventually got used to the fact that the rules of decency do not apply to him..

Perscective. David Lease is a twerp who mouths off about figure skating. He did not plant a bomb on the airplane causing the deaths of all aboard.

I reserve my outrage for those on larger stages whose gratuitous cruelty adversely affects -- indeed, terminates -- the lives of tens of thousands at a blow.

 

[Mathman]

Here's my case study.

Parenting is a challenging job. I think that Tonto Jr won the gold ring.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Given the number of skaters that liked and shared the USFS statement on Instagram, I don't think this is simply a case of him putting his mouth into gear before he could think. I follow mainly Canadian skaters there, several of them have shared it and liked it. Skaters from all nationalities have been affected by his words over the years.

It's been a pattern of him making statements that the skaters have had to put up with and this went too far for USFS to ignore. It's not an "Oops, I spoke before I could think!" when he's been doing it for years. It's a case where he went too far when he was doing a review of a memorial show of all things. People like his style of 'keeping it real' and are willing to pay for it on Patreon. He was being paid to speak like that.

ITA. I am not a big follower but my impression is that he does this on a regular basis, fed on by his Mob that pay for more. I am glad the USFS hammered him and think others should have too. During a recent Olympics, Terry Gannon, Tara, Johnny, some Canadian skaters, and others hammered the IOC on air for allowing a doped skater to skate. Good for them.
We all need to read much and listen much, but question everything we take in.

If I told you that at 8 minutes after midnight tonight, 80 years ago, 16 sq miles of Tokyo went up in a firestorm, killing over 100,000 men, women and children, creating the largest single day death total of the war, you should question that.

I personally dont understand why anyone would believe and accept everything from all the internet influencers like TSL. That is not how I was taught to do critical thinking.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Tagging on to the conversation with @Mathman and @FSFan1999

I, too, can see the point he was trying to make, although VERY poorly. His delivery and his comments about these children were appalling, and I'm not excusing that.

Mathman mentions perspective... skaters renouncing citizenship to form a pair, and I also have to bring up skaters actually getting married at 17 for the sake of skating. It's nuts.

And YES, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, there are coaches and organizations that will absolutely wring every dollar they can get. I laughed at Mathman's friend taking up ballroom dancing.

Here's my case study. When TontoJr was young, my wife and I enrolled him in Taekwando. It's a good activity, instills discipline, focus, physical activity, fosters respect, etc etc. Highly recommend, but with your eyes open.

So, there's a monthly fee, which entitles the child to come to formal practices. These are well organized, consistently structured, led by experienced adults, offered every day of the week at various times, including evenings... no complaints at all.

But... you need to buy the outfit (I'm forgetting what it's called) from them, because it has the embroidered patch you have to have. Oh, you want to break boards during practice... and what child doesn't... you buy those from us, too. We are hosting a competition this weekend, where you can watch your kid show off their skills!! Great, a fee for that, too. Oh, and don't forget to buy your ticket for the awards banquet where we'll hand out the awards your child won. Time to test for a higher belt! Good news, we're hosting the test, you'll need to pay for that, and don't forget to buy the next color belt that your child has won! What? Christmas already? It's time for our annual celebration where every child in attendance will receive a trinket of some sort - get your tickets now. What's that? We're now offering traditional Korean sword fighting classes! I bet your kid wants to do that! Just a small bit tacked on to the monthly fee will cover it... but there's a different uniform for that, and you'll need the wooden practice swords and the ceremonial sword, and oh yeah, we're having competitions for that, too... It NEVER ended.

Luckily, we were in a position financially to do this... and it was a good experience overall, and I don't regret it... but in retrospect, what a racket!

I really enjoyed your post! Both the first and second parts...I wont comment on sham citizenships Or Sham marriages to get citizenships.
The second part mimics dog events. The American Kennel Club makes money by creating dog events and titles you didnt know you needed. One of our dog's titles required going to 300 dog shows. and AKC gets a piece of the action for each participant.