- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
If you believe the sport is headed downhill, what do you think are the reasons for it. Explain
The Decline of Figure Skating
- Thread starter Joesitz (RIP)
- Start date
I have to say "other" because (1) the economy is a factor -- skating is expensive, whether you are talking about becoming a skater, attending competitions, or even seeing skating shows and (2) you didn't include an option for "corruption" -- why compete, or watch, if the outcome is pre-ordained?
I do not think that either secret judging necessarily equals "corruption"; non-secret judging didn't block the problems of SLC. I also don't believe that Russian dominance shows corrupution; IMO, Russia dominated pairs and ice dance for years because they valued those disciplines, and put their best into those disciplines -- the US, by contrast, concentrated on ladies. As a result, Russian ladies (excluding non-Russians from Former Soviet Union, like Oksana) have won one Oly bronze, one Oly silver, and 3 World gold. US skater Michelle Kwan has done better than that (by 2 World golds) all by herself.
Since Russia has been doing better in the singles events, they have been beaten at Worlds and Olys in pairs and dance.
I do not think that either secret judging necessarily equals "corruption"; non-secret judging didn't block the problems of SLC. I also don't believe that Russian dominance shows corrupution; IMO, Russia dominated pairs and ice dance for years because they valued those disciplines, and put their best into those disciplines -- the US, by contrast, concentrated on ladies. As a result, Russian ladies (excluding non-Russians from Former Soviet Union, like Oksana) have won one Oly bronze, one Oly silver, and 3 World gold. US skater Michelle Kwan has done better than that (by 2 World golds) all by herself.
Since Russia has been doing better in the singles events, they have been beaten at Worlds and Olys in pairs and dance.
I picked other, because it is from a combination of factors. The oversaturation of skating that took place after the Kerrigan/Harding situation, the judging scandals and rules that are not enforced which make the ultimate score a bad joke. I am passionate about skating, but if I see one more Ladies competitor get credit for doing a lutz when she did no such thing, I will not be able to defend the sport.
Then we have the problem with the sport trying to attract the average Joe, and losing the fan base that ice skating has had for decades. No, it should not be for the upper class only, but it is so sad to see athletes skate sophisticated programs in competition, and then pay $100.00 per on ice seat to watch them move about to kiddie pop music that has no musical merit whatsoever. Stars on Ice was so bad this year,not due to skating but due to the awful musical selections.. A woman seated behind me almost left with her daughter. She was so offended by the inappropriate music that Yuka had selected. On the way out the older generation looked shocked. I heard one man trying to be positive saying "Well, it got a little better during the second half". Listening to the selections from "Tommy", all I could think was that I bought that record when it came out. Must have been doing more drugs than I thought!
Then we have the problem with the sport trying to attract the average Joe, and losing the fan base that ice skating has had for decades. No, it should not be for the upper class only, but it is so sad to see athletes skate sophisticated programs in competition, and then pay $100.00 per on ice seat to watch them move about to kiddie pop music that has no musical merit whatsoever. Stars on Ice was so bad this year,not due to skating but due to the awful musical selections.. A woman seated behind me almost left with her daughter. She was so offended by the inappropriate music that Yuka had selected. On the way out the older generation looked shocked. I heard one man trying to be positive saying "Well, it got a little better during the second half". Listening to the selections from "Tommy", all I could think was that I bought that record when it came out. Must have been doing more drugs than I thought!
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I'd say people are fed up with all the scandals and closet backdeals in skating. I know I am, and if it doesn't get better I may well leave too.
I'll take a stretch and also say that the TV coverage of skating now has also had an impact. It's always one skater, than commercials, then another skater, then more commercials. How is the average person going to sit through that unless it's the Olympics? Even skating fans seem to be fed up with the coverage. Not to mention a lot of people don't even think of skating as a sport. I know it's hard for me to think so.
And those cheesy specials...that's a whole 'nother thing.
Lastly, the "whack heard around the world" happened to expose skating to a much wider audience. I think that audience just might be fading away and skating will return to how it was before the whack.
I'll take a stretch and also say that the TV coverage of skating now has also had an impact. It's always one skater, than commercials, then another skater, then more commercials. How is the average person going to sit through that unless it's the Olympics? Even skating fans seem to be fed up with the coverage. Not to mention a lot of people don't even think of skating as a sport. I know it's hard for me to think so.
And those cheesy specials...that's a whole 'nother thing.
Lastly, the "whack heard around the world" happened to expose skating to a much wider audience. I think that audience just might be fading away and skating will return to how it was before the whack.
I voted other and its because of several reasons (all my opinion).
Don't shoot me for this one, but people are bored with skating. Currently there is nothing in skating that lures the non-skating fan's interest. I think interest will grow a little this year because of the upcoming Olympics. Most of skating's World Stars will most likely leave competitive skating after the Olympics. The ISU and the USFSA better hope that the new skating stars spark some interest in the sport. They need to start a marketing campaign and try to sell the sport more.
As far as costs go, yes it is expensive. But then again so are a lot of other sports. I pay over $100 to see a Nascar Race. The tracks have no problem filling 120,000 seats. Nascar has done a fantastic job over the years of marketing their sport. The ticket sales and ratings prove it.
I do think the professional skating will gain a lot of interest if Michelle, Irina, and several others decide to go pro. I'd like to see some Skate Wars where some of the older skaters are paired with some of the new pros and compete against other countries.
The judging scandals will always be in the back of people's minds and then there is the new COP scoring system that some hate.
Skating will fair pretty good pre and post olympics. After that, I hate to say it, but I think interest in the sport will decline drastically unless some changes are made.
Just my opinion, but heck what do I know. I couldn't tell you the difference between a triple lutz and a triple toe
Don't shoot me for this one, but people are bored with skating. Currently there is nothing in skating that lures the non-skating fan's interest. I think interest will grow a little this year because of the upcoming Olympics. Most of skating's World Stars will most likely leave competitive skating after the Olympics. The ISU and the USFSA better hope that the new skating stars spark some interest in the sport. They need to start a marketing campaign and try to sell the sport more.
As far as costs go, yes it is expensive. But then again so are a lot of other sports. I pay over $100 to see a Nascar Race. The tracks have no problem filling 120,000 seats. Nascar has done a fantastic job over the years of marketing their sport. The ticket sales and ratings prove it.
I do think the professional skating will gain a lot of interest if Michelle, Irina, and several others decide to go pro. I'd like to see some Skate Wars where some of the older skaters are paired with some of the new pros and compete against other countries.
The judging scandals will always be in the back of people's minds and then there is the new COP scoring system that some hate.
Skating will fair pretty good pre and post olympics. After that, I hate to say it, but I think interest in the sport will decline drastically unless some changes are made.
Just my opinion, but heck what do I know. I couldn't tell you the difference between a triple lutz and a triple toe
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
I voted other, too, because I believe the decline is due to more than one factor. It is sliding back to the days before the Kerrigan-Harding debacle plus the high cost of advertising on TV with poor sales figures. If fans don't purchase those products why continue to advertise them? Ticket prices are too high for the live performances & the ISU & National federations don't do enough to promote the events. Everything goes in cycles, tho, & if the US can claim more World/Olympic champions interest will rise somewhat again in the USA.
all of the above
I vote "all of the above". In addition, since looking around and talking to some kids (NOT PARENTS), I've decided that there are problems at the front end and the back end of US skating----
At the front end, kids have been coming to competitions without some basic skills and it put us in the dumpers over the last few years, I believe specifically with Men and Pairs. Mens skating surged forward after figures were dumped (many years, I might add, after everyone else in the world had already dumped it) but was quickly filled with little boys who could "jump" but do next to nothing else. Pairs in the US has always seemed to be what you do if you can't learn to do a triple jump. I think that it is now ready to make itself known within our Women's competitors, too. Why the lag in appearing? Numbers. There have always been tons more women training in the sport than men or pairs. There were more to "discard" as a few rose to the top. Now, I believe the pool will be tiny there, too. I don't know how that will affect us, but it can't be all that good. The other thing is.....other nations (besides Russia), esp. now even some "developing nations" have "attacked" the sport with full technological concentration. In our country, it ususally starts off as a recreational sport, which, when it turns into a serious pursuit for any one kid, usually STILL ends up a "hodgepodge" development. There are virtual rabbit warrens of skate supply, on and off ice instruction, choreography, coaching, rink politics, costumery, etc fields to negotiate. Even if the parents can negotiate it financially, it is not conducive to a smooth road in building any kind of champion. In other words, it's a herky jerky system of training that, if you used it in a real business, would make you go "bust" in a few years. That's what it does to training a skater, too.
At the back end, I see Jr and Sr skaters sticking it out, having developed skills that they need, but being discouraged by expectations of quad jumps, quad throws, quad twists, injuries/possibility of future injury, lack of support (not just money, but also centralized leadership, steady coaches and rinks, paltry support from skating clubs, rink, partner, and coach locations.......). When you think about it, what can the kids at this level do? They are not middling around still learning. They have acquired a great deal of skill at a great many things in the sport--at great monetary and personal cost, and have nowhere to go with it once they get up to the top and can't "hang on" due to reasons given. They can't "degress" back down into a "holding pattern" at a lower level until "something comes along", yet, they might not be able to maintain themselves at the upper level, either. For them, it might be a personal tragedy that they eventually have to just up and quit, but for the US and the skating fan base, I feel like we are the biggest losers. I hate to say it, too, but in a sport that we used to have some domination and in which we developed national/international icons of the sport, I feel like we've been sinking due to the neglect of this segment of our skating "stable" . Soon, I expect us to have as much presence in the sport as the Jamaica bobsled team
I vote "all of the above". In addition, since looking around and talking to some kids (NOT PARENTS), I've decided that there are problems at the front end and the back end of US skating----
At the front end, kids have been coming to competitions without some basic skills and it put us in the dumpers over the last few years, I believe specifically with Men and Pairs. Mens skating surged forward after figures were dumped (many years, I might add, after everyone else in the world had already dumped it) but was quickly filled with little boys who could "jump" but do next to nothing else. Pairs in the US has always seemed to be what you do if you can't learn to do a triple jump. I think that it is now ready to make itself known within our Women's competitors, too. Why the lag in appearing? Numbers. There have always been tons more women training in the sport than men or pairs. There were more to "discard" as a few rose to the top. Now, I believe the pool will be tiny there, too. I don't know how that will affect us, but it can't be all that good. The other thing is.....other nations (besides Russia), esp. now even some "developing nations" have "attacked" the sport with full technological concentration. In our country, it ususally starts off as a recreational sport, which, when it turns into a serious pursuit for any one kid, usually STILL ends up a "hodgepodge" development. There are virtual rabbit warrens of skate supply, on and off ice instruction, choreography, coaching, rink politics, costumery, etc fields to negotiate. Even if the parents can negotiate it financially, it is not conducive to a smooth road in building any kind of champion. In other words, it's a herky jerky system of training that, if you used it in a real business, would make you go "bust" in a few years. That's what it does to training a skater, too.
At the back end, I see Jr and Sr skaters sticking it out, having developed skills that they need, but being discouraged by expectations of quad jumps, quad throws, quad twists, injuries/possibility of future injury, lack of support (not just money, but also centralized leadership, steady coaches and rinks, paltry support from skating clubs, rink, partner, and coach locations.......). When you think about it, what can the kids at this level do? They are not middling around still learning. They have acquired a great deal of skill at a great many things in the sport--at great monetary and personal cost, and have nowhere to go with it once they get up to the top and can't "hang on" due to reasons given. They can't "degress" back down into a "holding pattern" at a lower level until "something comes along", yet, they might not be able to maintain themselves at the upper level, either. For them, it might be a personal tragedy that they eventually have to just up and quit, but for the US and the skating fan base, I feel like we are the biggest losers. I hate to say it, too, but in a sport that we used to have some domination and in which we developed national/international icons of the sport, I feel like we've been sinking due to the neglect of this segment of our skating "stable" . Soon, I expect us to have as much presence in the sport as the Jamaica bobsled team
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I had not thought of it from that point of view, but I tend to agree with Mmscfdcsu. Figure skating is a niche sport, and a high class one at that. SOI is not a Britny Spears concert. Bring on the classical music!
I don't think that figure skating gains anything by trying to follow the latest fad in entertainment. Celebrity Poker on Ice! They're celebrities!! They're playing poker!!! I'm a marketing genius!!!!! ... No wait, Monster Zamboni Demolition Derby!!!!!! (Actually, that's not a bad idea for the half-time entertainment at the next Marshall's Invitational....)
MM
I don't think that figure skating gains anything by trying to follow the latest fad in entertainment. Celebrity Poker on Ice! They're celebrities!! They're playing poker!!! I'm a marketing genius!!!!! ... No wait, Monster Zamboni Demolition Derby!!!!!! (Actually, that's not a bad idea for the half-time entertainment at the next Marshall's Invitational....)
MM
I voted for other, because I don't think it's just one thing for the delcine.
We were over sautred after the Nancy / Tanya thing. Cost could be another if fI had a child wanting to skate I couldn't afford $750 a month for ice time. Can't blame Michelle she not the only skater who's be in for long time just the one most popular. Yes, were all sick of the secert / cheating judges.
We were over sautred after the Nancy / Tanya thing. Cost could be another if fI had a child wanting to skate I couldn't afford $750 a month for ice time. Can't blame Michelle she not the only skater who's be in for long time just the one most popular. Yes, were all sick of the secert / cheating judges.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Mathman said:
I'm a big SOI fan, but I agree about the music -- there is so much good music out there, but I'm not sure I could relate to much of it this year, either! Kind of glad they didn't play Portland this year, (although it would have been nice to see Ilia...).
anyway, I think it's just been market over-saturation -- there was so much skating on TV and otherwise post-1994 -- but always with the same stars. My friends would say, "Isn't there anyone else?" Well, there are always new ones coming up, but the focus was always on Tonya, Tonya, Tonya, or Michelle, Michelle, Michelle -- for whatever reason people aren't seeing the new blood on the horizon...
icedancer2 said:I'm a big SOI fan, but I agree about the music -- there is so much good music out there, but I'm not sure I could relate to much of it this year, either! Kind of glad they didn't play Portland this year, (although it would have been nice to see Ilia...).
Yes, I want to make it clear that I wasn't saying that the music should be all classical. I would be fine with Jazz, Opera, Musical Theater, Ethnic, etc., with a couple of pop or rock numbers for the children and teens in the crowd. There is so much great music that was made for skating. Instead, the skaters pick so called popular rock or pop that rarely has even minimal musical merit and is poorly suited to skating. It ends up being little more than background noise going on while the skaters do some tricks on the ice. During competitions shown on television, the viewers hear discussions of artistry. We go to these shows with awful music and feel that we have been conned. These are obviously not artists. It makes you think about how much education these athletes have sacrificed for their medals. Some of them are approaching thirty and are still listening to and skating to this stuff. Yikes. Save us from the disgusting spectacle of a certain skater with a doggy puppet on his hand, skating to "Who Let The Dogs Out!"
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
mmscfdcsu said:Yes, I want to make it clear that I wasn't saying that the music should be all classical. I would be fine with Jazz, Opera, Musical Theater, Ethnic, etc., with a couple of pop or rock numbers for the children and teens in the crowd. There is so much great music that was made for skating. Instead, the skaters pick so called popular rock or pop that rarely has even minimal musical merit and is poorly suited to skating. It ends up being little more than background noise going on while the skaters do some tricks on the ice. During competitions shown on television, the viewers hear discussions of artistry. We go to these shows with awful music and feel that we have been conned. These are obviously not artists. It makes you think about how much education these athletes have sacrificed for their medals. Some of them are approaching thirty and are still listening to and skating to this stuff. Yikes. Save us from the disgusting spectacle of a certain skater with a doggy puppet on his hand, skating to "Who Let The Dogs Out!"
Yeah -- I agree -- not just classical -- I long for the days of Simon and Garfunkel medley, Beatles medley, etc. -- plus all of that great ethnic music, jazz, etc., that we just know is great for skating.
I think you're right that the skaters are picking music that they like to listen to, and it makes me also wonder why they enjoy listening to that music so much and they think we would too?
It strikes me that they are trying to go for a younger demographic, but does the younger demographic have the money or the interest in skating or SOI? (or COI for that matter) -- anyway, they should just go with what worked in the past -- it would still work with this skater in the present, that's for sure!
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I don't think people go to see exhibitions at a figure skating competition. They are there for the sport. They are looking to see who wins, who should have won, who deserved to lose, etc. I believe many factors are keeping the casual fans away.
The 'Pro' Skate Tours are a nice way to have your favorite skaters continue to make you happy, but they are not sport; they are simply a show. Great place to take the kids for family fun.
Joe
The 'Pro' Skate Tours are a nice way to have your favorite skaters continue to make you happy, but they are not sport; they are simply a show. Great place to take the kids for family fun.
Joe
I selected other... Tired of Cohen, not Kwan.
Tired of the comentators talking about "potential". Geez, I think potential is what a junior skater may have.
Tired of comentators talking about Jenny's Mother, coaching changes, blah, blah.
so and so isn't an American citizen so he/she can't....
I watch skating to see the competition. Perhaps, if the second string skaters start to break out, there will be more interest in the sport. Today, we expect, Kwan, Cohen and third will go to the skater who made the least mistakes.
mmscfdcsu: What was Yuka's offensive muisic ?
Tired of the comentators talking about "potential". Geez, I think potential is what a junior skater may have.
Tired of comentators talking about Jenny's Mother, coaching changes, blah, blah.
so and so isn't an American citizen so he/she can't....
I watch skating to see the competition. Perhaps, if the second string skaters start to break out, there will be more interest in the sport. Today, we expect, Kwan, Cohen and third will go to the skater who made the least mistakes.
mmscfdcsu: What was Yuka's offensive muisic ?
Oh I so much agree about the comentors talking about Jenny's mother I am sure she'd like it if they let it go also. So you know this year all they will be talking about is Angela's mother and that being the reason she's not skating. They need to give the kids a break and us we already know what has happened and we don't need to be remined. Also I agree we don't have to be told over and over who can and can't go to the olympics because there not US citizen's we already know that. Don't we!! :scratch:
orchid said:
I actually found the program. It was "Naughty Girl" by Beyonce?
The first half music was not good. On my stop we got the following:
"Pure Imagination" from Willy Wonka. Kind of boring
"Let Me Entertain You"
"Naughty Girl"
"Harder to Breathe"
"Led Zeppelin Tribute"
"TKO"
"Raindrops Will Fall"
"If I Could"
"Radar Love"
"Passion"
"The Ride of a Life" The Who
At least in the second half there was the Dance Mix that Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze skated. This at least had some musical interest and interesting choreography that suited the music. There were a few other good moments, such as in Passion. But for me, and many of the old time skating supporters who also enjoy classical music, opera, ballet, modern dance etc, this kind of show was very empty. It could have been so much more.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I think its a stretch to blame Sasha Cohen, of all people, for the decline of interest in the sport of figure skating among the general population. Most people have never heard of her.
But if you're talking major network television, ABC just showed live coverage of the national archery, log-rolling and dog jumping championships this afternoon.
Mathman
But if you're talking major network television, ABC just showed live coverage of the national archery, log-rolling and dog jumping championships this afternoon.
Mathman
Mathman: I am not 'blaming" Sasha for the decline of interest on the general population, only stating that she bores ME, always has.
I wish I had known what ABC offered this afternoon because I long for the days when there was no foot, base or basketball consuming Sat and Sun. I remember the days when unusual sports, like, barrel jumping, curling and log tossing were televised. Does anyone thing ABC would have televised the Liberty Comp where fall after fall occurred ?????? Doing so, would have damaged the interest in figure skating even more.
In those days, we never heard of judging controversies and skating was an art. A practised talent (figures) not a jumpfest. So someone could follow one skater over a period of years and usually without debilitating injury knocking the skater out for an entire season.
I am delighted that Michelle Kwan has remained on the top of the sport for more than a decade. She is a true champion, of mind, spirit and talent.
I wish I had known what ABC offered this afternoon because I long for the days when there was no foot, base or basketball consuming Sat and Sun. I remember the days when unusual sports, like, barrel jumping, curling and log tossing were televised. Does anyone thing ABC would have televised the Liberty Comp where fall after fall occurred ?????? Doing so, would have damaged the interest in figure skating even more.
In those days, we never heard of judging controversies and skating was an art. A practised talent (figures) not a jumpfest. So someone could follow one skater over a period of years and usually without debilitating injury knocking the skater out for an entire season.
I am delighted that Michelle Kwan has remained on the top of the sport for more than a decade. She is a true champion, of mind, spirit and talent.
Lack of Interest
The sport is tainted after SLC and except for Michelle no other skater is as well known with a compelling fan base. Cohen is not a big draw but is known. I find not only the General public has been declining but also the boards. I find boards that are dying and have very few posters. These use to be active boards with many posters. It seems we are not noticing the skating fans declining as well as the General Public. I remember a few yrs. ago the Boards were fun and very active. There are no reports about the skaters music, programs or anything else. It seems the skaters are still using the same rinks to practice but we hear nothing. Do the skaters now have private time with the rink closed so no one can see. I think most are in CA. so why no info. I know Michelle is in her rink but even she is seen as reported on but may be false reports. There isnt much to hold ones interest at this point.
The sport is tainted after SLC and except for Michelle no other skater is as well known with a compelling fan base. Cohen is not a big draw but is known. I find not only the General public has been declining but also the boards. I find boards that are dying and have very few posters. These use to be active boards with many posters. It seems we are not noticing the skating fans declining as well as the General Public. I remember a few yrs. ago the Boards were fun and very active. There are no reports about the skaters music, programs or anything else. It seems the skaters are still using the same rinks to practice but we hear nothing. Do the skaters now have private time with the rink closed so no one can see. I think most are in CA. so why no info. I know Michelle is in her rink but even she is seen as reported on but may be false reports. There isnt much to hold ones interest at this point.
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