The Decline of Figure Skating

[mmscfdcsu]

I find boards that are dying and have very few posters. These use to be active boards with many posters. It seems we are not noticing the skating fans declining as well as the General Public. I remember a few yrs. ago the Boards were fun and very active. .

I think that the FSU Board remains very active and fun. Lots of reports of skaters music etc.

 

[Mathman]

In those days, we never heard of judging controversies and skating was an art. A practised talent (figures) not a jumpfest.

I think there were plenty of judging controversies in the good old days. In 1978 the entire Russian federation was suspended from the ISU for habitual and egregrious cheating.

I may have the details wrong in my mind, but I remember reading somewhere that in the 1905 World championships in Stockholm, the Russian champion Nicolai Panin came to town, took one look at the judging panel (all Swedes) and went back home without competing, realizing that the contest was rigged for the Swedish champion, Ulrich Salchow (later ISU president).

OT -- Panin competed in the 1927 Olympics in both figure skating and shooting. He is also credited with being the last person who invented a new figure.

I have to disagree about figure tracing being more of an "art" than free skating. To me, tracing figures is more of a science. Everyone does the same exact figures and they are judged on the precision and down-to-the-millimeter accuracy of the tracings, not on anything that requires an original creation.

Figures is sort of a "man against nature" struggle. As I understand it, the sport got it's start when the macho lads wanted to prove that they could impose their will on a sheet of ice by carving their initials into it. Later the European technicians, especially the British, gave a lot of serious study to the science of just what muscle group exercises could be translated into the required turns on the ice, sort of like trying to program a remote controlled robot to trace out a particular pattern.

The art of beautiful skating was, so I have read, introduced into Europe by the American show skater Jackson Haines in the nineteenth century.

Something like that. (?) Can anyone correct me?

Mathman

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I have a lot of opinions on this one, but will keep it brief...

US figure skating suffers from a bad business model.

The decline of figure skating is IMHO attributed to several things...

1. Bad marketing by the USFSA. You attract new fans by cross marketing and partnerships NOT by putting on "too hot to skate." When NASCAR was searching for ways to redefine their audience, they thought of new & inovative ways to promote individual drivers, worked out a productive relationship with Fox, and developed merchandising ideas. (Can you even buy merchandise outside of the USFSA website?) This is why the face of NASCAR has changed. Its not so much because people woke up one day & thought "hey! I'll go watch a bunch of cars go round & round!" No, they were marketed to & felt involved... The USFSA has decided that marketing outside of local rinks & having a good relationship isn't in keeping with their mission. Fine. Figure skating will continue to suffer & we will buy our kids Jeff Gordon tee-shirts. What a shame...

2. USFSA's lack of vision & long term planning. This can be seen on a bunch of levels... No flexing economic clout with the ISU. Infighting in Denver. Lack of skater development to ensure healthly, long term careers. This list goes on & on.

3. Same ol' Same ol'... This is a personal beef, but I don't understand a person who would leave a performance because a Beyonce song... I could see if the performance was bad, but the song??? Do you listen to the radio? There is something to be said for capatilzing on pop culture, something skating fans don't seem to understand...

4. Skating's inability to take an elitist sport to the next level & I'm not talking about NJS. You cannot blame the lack of interest on skating being an expensive & elitist sport! That's called denial. Look at other sports & the stars...Golf/ Tiger Woods, Tennis/ the Williams sisters, Skiing/ Winter X Games. None of these are traditional approaches to traditional, elitist sports. Its rock star glamour coupled with good athletics. And it makes money. Why can't skating look at these models & grow?

You can't blame the lack of interest on one skater, drama, or tv coverage. You can only blame the powers that be.

 

[mmscfdcsu]

3. Same ol' Same ol'... This is a personal beef, but I don't understand a person who would leave a performance because a Beyonce song... I could see if the performance was bad, but the song??? Do you listen to the radio? There is something to be said for capatilzing on pop culture, something skating fans don't seem to understand...


Of course I listen to the radio. Just not the kind of stations where I would hear that type of music. I listen to classical stations, NPR, talk radio etc. Have not had the slightest interest in listening to pop music since I was 19 or 20. Is that snobbish? I don't think so. Why would I listen to something that I find boring? There are many people who function this way. Most people that I know prefer classical music and jazz. I've taken my godchildren to the Cleveland Orchestra and the Cleveland Opera since they were 5 years old. That is the kind of music that they enjoy. That is all that I was saying in my post. This year's SOI ignored this population. A population that has traditionally been very supportive of ice skating. I think that the shows need a variety of music, music that has at least minimal musical merit, and music that is conducive to interesting choreography.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yeah, but you gotta think about figure skating music. It's pretty much the same each year. The only difference is the most recent background music in films. Anyone for 'War of the Worlds'?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I think they should work in as much classical music as possible. In fact, I wish they would scale back on music from the Romantic genre (Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, Italian opera), and give us some good old Mozart and Beethoven. Has anyone ever used Beethoven's violin concerto?

For many kids going to the ice show to see their favorites, this might be their first exposure to great music. Maybe they will come home and beg their parents to take them to the symphony.

Mathman

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

MM - That is why the NYC Ballet has such a huge fan base. It doesn't rely on classic ballet music. Ballanchine believed one could dance to anything and so his ballets rund the gamut from Vivaldi to Kern, and the audience doesn't have to sit though little girls being changed into swans for no apparent reason.

Joe

 

[mmscfdcsu]

Yes, there is much great music out there. I am not against rock music, I just think that music selected for skating should be of good quality. I doubt that any Ballet, Jazz or Modern Dance Company would have ever selected any of the selections that I mentioned a few posts ago. I am not requesting classical music as the only way to go. I have no desire to see dying swan after dying swan. What I would like to see is a well choreographed performance to interesting music. We have gotten very far away from that ideal in this country. But then I am still stunned that there are actually adults watching a show like American Idol, which was clearly designed to appeal to latency aged children. Our culture now celebrates mediocrity and immaturity. Sadly, much of professional skating has descended into the muck.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

While I do enjoy jazz & classical ~ I must disagree with the idea that only quality skating music is classical... I believe if something is choerographed properly just about any genre of music is appropriate for skating...

Just because something is new, nontraditional, or popular doesn't make it irrelevant or immature. Creativity is about thinking outside the norm & taking a risk. Plus, I'd rather see a great, innovative skate to good music than another boring swan lake performance ~ but that's just me...

Green Acres & Ooops! I did it again notwithstanding...

 

[Mathman]

Well, Belbin and Agosto's Green Acres was great. A celebration of the silver medalist entry in the All-time Stupid TV Show Contest. (The gold medal and lifetime achievement award goes to Gilligin's Island.) But other than that...

I have to agree with Mmscfdcs about the sad decline into puerility of Western culture. The tail is wagging the dog. It is the responsibility of adults to guide their children's tastes and sensibilities, not the other way around.

Mathman

 

[gezando]

I think its a stretch to blame Sasha Cohen, of all people, for the decline of interest in the sport of figure skating among the general population. Most people have never heard of her.

Orchid wasn't blaming Cohen, just stated s/he is tired of Cohen. How do you know most people have never heard of her?? You cohen fans can't have it both ways, on the one hand claim that she is so well known to the general public with her citizen watch ads, and vogue pictures. On the other hand when posters state that they are tired of Cohen, then you claim that she is really not that well known afterall

Cohen has been the most hype skater probably in US history. (Tara and Mk were hyped too, but they live up to their hype) Imagine the general public who only turn on the tv at nationals and worlds and listen to the endless gushing from Dick and Peggy, that she is God's gift to skating, then Cohen failed to win the big one or realize her potential so far. To the general public they may be scratching their heads, so this is the best USA skating has to offer ???? The general public may turn off their attention and move onto another sport / athlete.

Skating is still a sport, and placement is important, being able to deliver big when it counts is important.

 

[Mathman]

Well, one of the options on this poll is, "Figure skating is on the decline because people are tired of Kwan." So when Orchid said, no, it's not Kwan it's Cohen, I thought she was proposing another possible answer to the question of the poll.

Alas, even us Cohen fans have to concede that, no, nobody outside of figure skating has ever heard of her, Citizen's watches notwithstanding. Nobody outside of figure skating has heard of Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, or Shizuka Arakawa, either. International Figure Skating magazine, in the latest issue, has an article about figure skating books, mentioning that Alexei's book (published this year in Japan) can't find a Western publisher, because who outside the skating community has any interest in a non-American male figure skater? It also says that sales of Sasha's book are not encouraging.

If you ask the typical U.S. man-in-the-street, " Who is the reigning World Champion figure skater?" I think the vote would be split between Michelle Kwan, Kristi Yamaguchi, and "some Russian girl."

But I think Orchid made an excellent point on the current Sasha thread in the Edge (and you, too). The reason that people criticize Sasha so much is because of the sky high expectations that have surrounded her career. If, say, Amber Corwin or Angela Nikodinov were to jump up and win a silver medal at Nationals next year, everyone would think it was great. But when Sasha does it, it's underachieving . . . yet again.

Mathman

PS. Do you have an opinion about the masculine vs. feminine music question that has come up on the thread, "Old Chestnuts," in the Edge?

 

[mmscfdcsu]

I have to agree with Mmscfdcs about the sad decline into puerility of Western culture. The tail is wagging the dog. It is the responsibility of adults to guide their children's tastes and sensibilities, not the other way around.

Mathman

Thank you. Skating used to be about the art and the beauty in addition to the complex athletic skills. Those days are gone. All we can do is support those who try to develop as artists.

I push the college Seniors that I teach, to open their minds. I tell them that if they graduate from college and still enjoy only the same kind of books, movies and music that they have enjoyed since childhood that they have not been educated. They might as well have attended a trade school. I tell them that if I ever hear of them watching crap like American Idol, I will come out and revoke their Degrees.

I seriously believe that part of the problem is that so many people distract themselves constantly with television, radio etc that they never engage in the self-reflection that is needed to mature and grow emotionally. In my clinical practice I am seeing more and more 40 and 50 year old people who have never completed the developmental tasks of adolescence. And these folks cannot model adult functioning for their children. So sad.

 

[gezando]

Well, one of the options on this poll is, "Figure skating is on the decline because people are tired of Kwan." So when Orchid said, no, it's not Kwan it's Cohen, I thought she was proposing another possible answer to the question of the poll.

Polls are set up for muiltiple choice, one best answer, and all the flaws that come with fast (cheap) way of finding the answer (truth). I imagine that is the reason why you won't admin multiple choice questions to your PhD candidiates. So proposing (and I know it is hard for you Cohen fans to imagine) that anyone who dare to be tired of Cohen is Anyway, people (including insiders) getting tired of Cohen is possibly part of a comprehensive answer to this question.

Alas, even us Cohen fans have to concede that, no, nobody outside of figure skating has ever heard of her, Citizen's watches notwithstanding.

Not sure your fellow Cohen fans who gush endlessly about how well known she is to the general public and universe will agree with you

It also says that sales of Sasha's book are not encouraging.

Oh come on, some Cohen fans just gush ad nauxxxx about her book going into a second printing

But I think Orchid made an excellent point on the current Sasha thread in the Edge (and you, too). The reason that people criticize Sasha so much is because of the sky high expectations that have surrounded her career. If, say, Amber Corwin or Angela Nikodinov were to jump up and win a silver medal at Nationals next year, everyone would think it was great. But when Sasha does it, it's underachieving . . . yet again.

expectation is a consequence of hype, if some Cohen fans will tone down the hype then naturally the expectation will come down. Not entirely fair comparison about Amber (who skated a heart warming Audrey Hepburn like moon river at SA 03, relative to the rather cold presentation of your favorite's swan lake, yeah I was there). Amber fans do not hype her as God's gift to skating

Further thoughts about Cohen not well known to the general public. I believe every generation there are some great athletes in all different kinds of sports. Take the example of golf, seriously who watches some guy/ gal hitting a ball over the hill into the sand trap???? But everyone knows Nikalus is the greatest, at least in his generation. Of course there comes a time when a great champion has to step down the podium, so he did. Fortunately Tiger Woods is more than capable of carrying on the tradition, and he contributes to the increase of interest in golf. USA has a rich tradition of lady champs in skating, and if Cohen is good enough to skating like Tiger is to golf, then I imagine the public interest in skating may increase

 

[Mathman]

Not entirely fair comparison about Amber (who skated a heart warming Audrey Hepburn like moon river at SA 03, relative to the rather cold presentation of your favorite's swan lake...

OK, you got me there. Amber is my sweetheart. I last saw her in Belbin and Agosto's Skate Aid show for the tsunami victims last year. She can wear the "little black dress" like no one since Audrey herself!

http://www.skatecanada.ca/en/gallery/images/4cont04_l3ac_f.jpg

But then again, Sasha and Audrey are look-alikes:

https://loki.safe-order.net/a-weddingday/tiara/TiaraonAudreyHapburnSm.jpg

http://www.sashacohen.com/photos/prom1.gif

Oh come on, some Cohen fans just gush ad nauxxxx about her book going into a second printing.

I wonder how many copies were in the first printing. According to the brief mention in IFS, "the last skating memoir to make a mass-market splash was Kathryn Bertine's All the Sundays Yet to Come" (2003), which was about the author's battle with eating disorders. It sold "almost 10,000 copies."

Now, there are 1382 of us over on Sashafans.com, who have ordered at least an average of two per member...

Anyway, about Alexei's book, a publisher's representative is quoted as saying, "Even though Yagudin's story may be fascinating within the sport's inside world, it's not seen as having broad-based appeal to others."

That's interesting, because if 10,000 copies is a bench mark for making a "mass-market splash," the main Yagudin fan site has over 10,000 members (twice as many as the MK Forum).

But everyone knows Nikalus is the greatest, at least in his generation. Of course there comes a time when a great champion has to step down the podium, so he did.

With a fifteen foot birdie putt on the eighteenth at St. Andrew's Old Course. Now that's style!

Mathman

 

[gezando]

Sasha and Audrey are look alikes

Not even close. The shape of Audrey's face, her lovely ears, and thick head of hair are just as "style" as Nikclaus 15 ft birdlie. Cohen has not drain any St Andrew 15 ft birdie in hole #18 equivalent in skating yet
.

 

[Mathman]

I think a better golf/skating comparison is Jack Nicklaus (born January 21, 1940) and Carol Heiss (born one day earlier, January 20, 1940). Nicklaus and Tiger Woods won the Masters 40 years apart (1965 - 2005), as Heiss and Michelle Kwan won World Championships 40 years apart (1956 - 1996).

Nicklaus and Woods have 10 Masters between them. Heiss and Kwan have 10 World Championships between them.

Forty years from now maybe there will be a new Tiger

http://downloads.redjupiter.com/users/images/newpeople/Tiger.jpg

and a new Michelle

http://www.startedbyamouse.com/graphics/MichelleKwan/MK05.jpg.

MM

(To see pictures, if the direct link doesn't work, copy and paste into your address bar.)

 

[honey827]

Personally I thought Yuka did a good job with her Naughty Girl program and that it went with the overall theme of the show. It is either a program people will like or hate.
As for my thoughts on the decline of figure skating. I agree with the things that have said so far. I also think alot of the ratings problems have to do with the skating not being shown live . People usually know the results of comps way before they are aired so what is the point in watching even if you are a loyal fan when you have things to do or a live sport is being shown at the same time like football or golf basically anything else that you also enjoy. Things are going to get worse now that the bulk of the comps are being shown on Cable. Also with so many channels available and other sports fighting for attention well you get lower ratings than in the past. To be fair I don't think skating is the only sport to suffer in the ratings department. Also problematic is a lack of a US rival for Michelle. Sasha is a good skater but she and Michelle don't really have much of a rivalry to make things exciting. We also need for our other disciplines to make some noise on the World stage and get some publicity especially during the olympics. It was great that Tanith and Ben won a World medal for Dance now we need for Pairs to get into the mix and start competing for World titles. Poor attendence at skating events imo have to do with not only the price but also the schedule of the events. The bulk of the competition is held during the week when people have to work so unless they live close by or can take a few days off most likely even if they are fans they won't be able to attend. A reason why I don't think FS will ever be the best attended event. Figure skating also has to deal with the perception that it is not a real sport. Also I think something compelling needs to occur to draw the public's attention to it again otherwise it will continue top be a niche sport with the largest viwership coming during the olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Hi, Honey (I always wanted to say that!) -- thanks for posting and welcome to the forum.

Mathman

 

[honey827]

Thanks for the nice welcome Mathman I appreciate it.