The Journey to replace 20 year old Klingbiels: Advice Solicited

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'm using this thread as a journal and hope no one disapproves. No one else in my life cares about this, but I want to document it and solicit any insight

I'm pretty sure I'm choosing Riedells, but now I have to call Will and ask for the cast to be sent to Riedell, which of course, I don't want to do. I think if the price was closer, I'd choose Avanta, but Riedell is gonna give me a good boot (I hope) for half the price.

Now what is left to do is a long, long list:
- Boot Type - synchro/ice dance situation is likely because I still want to jump occasionally but would love to have blades that are shorter and better optimized for ice dance and be able to point my toe more easily
- Tongue type - currently have half wool/half open-cell foam but considering the closed cell foam
- Heel height - currently have 1 3/4", might consider a 2"
- Cut Outs - Decide if I should do cut-outs for my bone spurs as I saw riedell does (the slits might be better)
- Blade Type - currently liking MK Dynasty synchro blade but have no idea honestly

And then the big one: I have to choose colors. Currently, I am in tan (falling apart) boots with black blades—because I wasn't allowed to get black boots because "black is for boys." Gender norms around footwear color have slightly improved in the interceding 21 years. But also I'm not competing so I don't need to get black OR tan OR white.

I am and adult and this is my fun, expensive adult hobby. I would like to get something FUN that reminds me I DO THIS FOR FUN.

I am leaning towards pink suede with holographic leather for the accents (back stripe and middle tongue), trying to decide if I should do a cut-out on the side. Also...considering the possibility of doing a split color - one-half teal, one-half pink? Essentially the bi-pride flag but in skates? This is quad skate, obviously, but they are generally more fun, so I'm looking at them for inspo.

I heard they can do color bottoms but apparently not the Louboutin red? Johnny Weir used to get that on his skates according to Riedell and apparently the color is trademarked I am thinking color on the bottom is an issue though for the possible adult synchro team we're forming here...at least pink skates I can cover with tights. Pink soles I cannot.

Are you considering a dance cut boot?

 

[anomalily]

Are you considering a dance cut boot?

I am, but I'm thinking maybe a bit more stiffness than a standard dance boot (similar to synchro) to support occasional low double jumps

 

[starryskate]

Riedell saved my wife's skating. Dan is super knowledgeable and a joy to work with. They can also hook you up with one of your reps to get measured and you won't need the foot casts anymore.

 

[anomalily]

Good to know! dan already measured me and took photos of my feet this weekend at nationals. But he’s going to talk to the bootmaker and see if they might want the casts

 

[starryskate]

Oh, forgot to mention, I love the pink boot, but from what I've read some synchro teams won't allow anything other than white sadly.

 

[starryskate]

Good to know! dan already measured me and took photos of my feet this weekend at nationals. But he’s going to talk to the bootmaker and see if they might want the casts

Dan is the best! You're in excellent hands, trust me.

 

[anomalily]

Oh, forgot to mention, I love the pink boot, but from what I've read some synchro teams won't allow anything other than white sadly.

I one of the people forming the synchro team so I am not gonna let that be a rule! We can just wear boot covers

 

[MCsAngel2]

Just my opinion, but from what you have intimated about your feet shape, I would absolutely not do Riedell unless you CAN get them the casts. I feel like just measuring is not going to be good enough.

Riedell does have really awesome custom color choices though. I love that pink suede! Re the Pride flag...you could also have the single color boot with a Pride flag cutout?

 

[desertskates]

Just chiming in to join the follow train on this thread and wish you luck! I love the pink!
When I returned to skating a few years back after a 12 year hiatus, I pulled my old Harlicks out of the garage, got them sharpened and got right back to it. They held up for 2 more years and I had plenty of time to get the new ones made. For that reason (among others), I'll always be a Harlick skater. But, that wait time is no joke
I'm enjoying everyone's input and experiences here. Oh, the things we go through just to feel that magical glide

 

[mskater93]

Just chiming in to join the follow train on this thread and wish you luck! I love the pink!
When I returned to skating a few years back after a 12 year hiatus, I pulled my old Harlicks out of the garage, got them sharpened and got right back to it. They held up for 2 more years and I had plenty of time to get the new ones made. For that reason (among others), I'll always be a Harlick skater. But, that wait time is no joke
I'm enjoying everyone's input and experiences here. Oh, the things we go through just to feel that magical glide

You're right, it's no joke. Last year when I heard the wait times from people, I ordered my next pair which should be ready in April (ish).

 

[starryskate]

It's so hard to have to wait so long! I'm wondering if this doesn't mean that the industry as a whole will need to rethink their current business model.















If we look at OP or my wife with their foot problems and willingness to spend top dollars on a boot, shouldn't that mean that boot makers finally realize that personalization is where it's at and either make boots that are easier to customize or offer cheaper options for customs?















Re Riedell, I don't know how, but through some dark magic (and foot photos), they manage to make excellent boots even for odd feet. I swear I'm not working for them. I'm just really impressed with them.

 

[mskater93]

Problem is when the supply chain for rubber, et al went crazy in 2021 with ocean freight issues and delays with the longshoreman strike/work slow down. Still trying to recover from that.

 

[christy]

I think the problem is that there are so few bootmakers around, and those who are skilled are getting older. It's a dying art, and there's no new people learning the old skills. Maybe Klingbeil and Harlick needed to do apprenticeships, but then the cost of customs means there's only a limited volume of business so not the work to share around.
I get the impression that there's one person at Avanta, SP Teri, etc. that can make the boots, and if they leave then that company is in trouble, and that's not a good position to be in.
The next best thing is semi custom like Jackson Synergy which is a relatively reasonable cost and good quality option, or Aura, who are also producing various versions of semi custom, but high cost and low quality. Potentially the Aura model of 3D printing is a way to go, but as they seem to need to print multiple boots before getting one that works then that solution would require skate stores have their own 3D printers so the boots are made and fitted in real time. Certainly a lot of skate techs have the knowledge of what figure skaters require and could then customise the 3D model to ensure it worked first time, as currently they are the ones trying to make the Aura skates work.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I think the problem is that there are so few bootmakers around, and those who are skilled are getting older. It's a dying art, and there's no new people learning the old skills. Maybe Klingbeil and Harlick needed to do apprenticeships, but then the cost of customs means there's only a limited volume of business so not the work to share around.
I get the impression that there's one person at Avanta, SP Teri, etc. that can make the boots, and if they leave then that company is in trouble, and that's not a good position to be in.
The next best thing is semi custom like Jackson Synergy which is a relatively reasonable cost and good quality option, or Aura, who are also producing various versions of semi custom, but high cost and low quality. Potentially the Aura model of 3D printing is a way to go, but as they seem to need to print multiple boots before getting one that works then that solution would require skate stores have their own 3D printers so the boots are made and fitted in real time. Certainly a lot of skate techs have the knowledge of what figure skaters require and could then customise the 3D model to ensure it worked first time, as currently they are the ones trying to make the Aura skates work.

Let me just stop you here and straighten out a few points: One: Klingbeil does not exist in that form anymore nor have they for years, Avanta is some of the same people though.
Aura is fully custom as it's based off a 3D map of your foot.
Lastly, there are younger people at these companies and have been for years that learned the trade. Ex: Avanta's techs who used to be at Klingbeil.

 

[christy]

Let me just stop you here and straighten out a few points: One: Klingbeil does not exist in that form anymore nor have they for years, Avanta is some of the same people though.
Aura is fully custom as it's based off a 3D map of your foot.
Lastly, there are younger people at these companies and have been for years that learned the trade. Ex: Avanta's techs who used to be at Klingbeil.

I know that Klingbeil doesn't exist, and one of the reasons is because they didn't future proof themselves. Yes there are some young people but there are so few companies and they have small staffs so the skills are limited.

Having tried Aura they aren't fully custom. They claim to be, but they aren't. Yes they make a 3D model and print a shell from that, but that shell isn't the same as the custom boots made by Harlick etc. They provide the shell to the skate tech who attaches a blade, heats and puts on your foot with cling film, then the skate tech does the work to try to make it fit. Aura also only provide a very basic flat insole, like you get from the dollar store, so you have to provide your own if you want any sort of support. My understanding (don't have personal experience) is that Harlick etc made the insoles specific to the buyer's foot so the boots were fully customised and ready to wear.

 

[mskater93]

Phil's and Ginger's son, Jason, took over the business fairly recently at Harlick.

 

[anomalily]

Quick note: going to connect tomorrow with the bootmaker and Dan at Riedell. I think I have picked out my colors (pink suede with pink heels) and get two little cat ears as my customization over the back heel.

Deciding between: Pattern 99 blades or MK dynasty. Thoughts? I do occasional double jumps but don’t compete or perform freestyle. Primarily do ice dancing (including dance lifts and spins) and this possible adult open master synchro team.

I currently have a very outside mount for my blades (ultima matrix freestyles) that seems to be working.

I am not a big person - 116lb/52 Kg but I do throw my weight around a lot.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Quick note: going to connect tomorrow with the bootmaker and Dan at Riedell. I think I have picked out my colors (pink suede with pink heels) and get two little cat ears as my customization over the back heel.

Deciding between: Pattern 99 blades or MK dynasty. Thoughts? I do occasional double jumps but don’t compete or perform freestyle. Primarily do ice dancing (including dance lifts and spins) and this possible adult open master synchro team.

I currently have a very outside mount for my blades (ultima matrix freestyles) that seems to be working.

I am not a big person - 116lb/52 Kg but I do throw my weight around a lot.

Dynasty.

 

[anomalily]

The Skates are DONE! I'm getting pictures tomorrow. Now I really can't put off the blade decisions much longer. Heavily leaning towards MK Dynasty but Coronation Aces, my second in line, are half the price. Can't tell if they'll be too "junior" of blades for me

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The Skates are DONE! I'm getting pictures tomorrow. Now I really can't put off the blade decisions much longer. Heavily leaning towards MK Dynasty but Coronation Aces, my second in line, are half the price. Can't tell if they'll be too "junior" of blades for me

I cannot wait to see them!