The Judging Controversy Thread

[cuon_alpinus]

russian commentary after yuna's short program (english subtitle)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...an-commentary-english-subtitles_sport?start=1

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

russian commentary after yuna's short program (english subtitle)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...an-commentary-english-subtitles_sport?start=1

Kind words from two great skaters. Thanks for posting! I think we all agree Yuna is a great champion.

 

[Alba]

russian commentary after yuna's short program (english subtitle)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...an-commentary-english-subtitles_sport?start=1

What about commentary after Yuna's LP?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

russian commentary after yuna's short program (english subtitle)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1.... -commentary-english-subtitles_sport?start=1

So I guess this thread just took a huge blow. Apparently we can put two Russians on the same judging panel and Yuna would win. Case closed. Thank you.

I really did enjoy watching the video and completely agree with everything they say. Yuna will be missed.

 

[darializa]

russian commentary after yuna's short program (english subtitle)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...an-commentary-english-subtitles_sport?start=1

Thank you for posting this. I really enjoyed watching it. I miss Yuna already and feel that it will be hard for anyone to fill the void left by her retirement. Sure, there will be other champions, but I agree with Ilia and Irina that Yuna is the greatest of champions. Ilia mentioned her modest integrity...so true. She is truly special.

 

[neraiselle]

What about commentary after Yuna's LP?

I was gonna say that too! Thank you for sharing the link. I enjoyed it very much.

 

[Blades of Passion]

So I guess this thread just took a huge blow. Apparently we can put two Russians on the same judging panel and Yuna would win. Case closed. Thank you.

LOL, their comments didn't at all say they would score Yu-Na higher. He specifically says "nothing can scare us because we have two wonderful skaters: Julia Lipnitskaia and Adelina Sotnikova" and his comments sound like he thinks Julia should score higher because of her spins (if she were to skate perfectly). Why even bring the Russian skaters up? Why put forth the idea of being "threatened" by a skater from another country? Very nationalistic.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

LOL, their comments didn't at all say they would score Yu-Na higher. He specifically says "nothing can scare us because we have two wonderful skaters: Julia Lipnitskaia and Adelina Sotnikova" and his comments sound like he thinks Julia should score higher because of her spins (if she were to skate perfectly). Why even bring the Russian skaters up? Why put forth the idea of being "threatened" by a skater from another country? Very nationalistic.

Hmm..they praised Yuna and said she is a champion with every step! Did we click the same link? i heard the highest praise being given. As for why they related her to Russians...it's a Russian broadcast and one of the highest rated ever! I'm sure some people tuned in based on hearing about Yulia alone that may not know how great Yuna was or understand the sport very well. There was an arena full of people that arguably didn't know!!! I only took from this that both thought Kim Yuna was the greatest champion..maybe ever. YMMV. Glad I could make you lol for a change.

 

[Alba]

LOL, their comments didn't at all say they would score Yu-Na higher. He specifically says "nothing can scare us because we have two wonderful skaters: Julia Lipnitskaia and Adelina Sotnikova" and his comments sound like he thinks Julia should score higher because of her spins (if she were to skate perfectly). Why even bring the Russian skaters up? Why put forth the idea of being "threatened" by a skater from another country? Very nationalistic.

Because it's a Russian broadcast and they had their contenders? Why bring Gracie Gold at all in NA media when speaking on having a shot for a medal?

 

[cuon_alpinus]

nbc is the official olympic broadcasting corporation over the US and they were the only one who had their own cameras into the olympic other than russians. I am pretty sure they might have been pressured not to argue about scandals in sochi, but to rather explain and justify the results to the viewer. Moreover, on the talk with gold, wagner, and polina, they seem to be pressured by nbc people not to disagree with the result.(just my feelings tho) Additionally, did you guys follow gala on nbc olympic channel? They had an advertisement one gala after another. It was very annoying and interesting. The order of gala was also very suspicious. They didn't show Adelina Sotnikova's performance after Yuna's performance, rather they showed Sotnikova's performance like 2 hours later at like 12am. What do you guys think about this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ugucCI1T4U

I think gold was being little sarcastic on her speech, lol. It clearly seems like nbc pressured them and the fact that they are still active figure skaters. and I think gold's score was inflated also. unlike wagner, gold didn't get a deduction on her mistakes.(look at wagner's face when gold is speaking ) I am sure the discussion was set before the recording. And I heard that the facilities were terrible at Sochi, but why are they praising??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuQbkuUVtTI

I just want to smack scott's face so hard. wow his argument is so much freaking persuasive. What a huge difference of base value between sotnikova and yuna right? just 1.44. and adelina really deserved level 4 step sequence for both short and free right? I think Bezic truly thinks Yuna was better. All other commentators laugh when Bezic praises Yuna LOL. Without discussing wrong usage of edge, under-rotation, step sequence in depth, interpretation, choreography, they are just justifying the result to the viewers. Why don't they mention Asada Mao who had more triples than Sotnikova but had lower scores on free skating??? I am really disappointed at cowardness from nbc.

 

[usethis2]

Just came to my news reader: http://voices.yahoo.com/cinquanta-ne...405.html?cat=9

BTW, can anyone in Korea see if you can watch this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g

It's not accessible in the U.S. (geo-block) so I use a British VPN.

 

[Maria Victoria]

BTW, can anyone in Korea see if you can watch this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgXKJvTVW9g

It's not accessible in the U.S. (geo-block) so I use a British VPN.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I can watch it.

 

[usethis2]

Thank you, Maria.

 

[cuon_alpinus]

Cinquanta Needs to Resign or Faces Impeachment

http://m.voices.yahoo.com/cinquanta-needs-resign-faces-impeachment-12585405.html

http://www.newsweek.com/opinion-what-went-wrong-figure-skating-238955

http://visaliakid.wordpress.com/201...and-immediate-action-from-the-isu-membership/

 

[Ven]

Mathman I like the view that you are coming around to.

#1 The judges don't give out numbers based on the scoring system. They determine the orders through back-room deals, and as long as a skater doesn't have a debacle, they just assign placeholder GOEs and PCS scores to fill out the pre-determined placements.

#2 The ISU does not want to change anonymous judging, because the ISU is the problem itself. The ISU and the people involved at the highest levels are all cheats...rigging the competitions is a time-honored tradition of the "sport"...and anonymous judging keeps heat off the judges...now their cheating can never be questioned.

 

[Mathman]

Mathman I like the view that you are coming around to.

#1 The judges don't give out numbers based on the scoring system. They determine the orders through back-room deals, and as long as a skater doesn't have a debacle, they just assign placeholder GOEs and PCS scores to fill out the pre-determined placements.

But here is what I wrestle with. Leaving out the backroom deals, etc., is it necessarily bad if the judges say to themselves, this skater's performance was better than the other girl's, so screw the CoP, I will give it a higher score? To me, that is the essence of judging as opposed to measuring.

If you are called upon to judge the pie baking contest at the county fair, it is your job to say, Mrs. Johnson's blueberry pie was better than Mrs. Smith's apple pie. In doing this you rely on your experience as a judge and as a baker, you can support your judgement with details (the crust of this pie was more flakey than that one), and by and large a group of well-qualified judges will be able to come to a satisfactory consensus most of the time.

That is pretty much the way it was under 6.0 ordinal judging. I think the judges are doing it still. Is that good or bad?

 

[[email protected]]

But for a starting point, the first 10 skaters are always better than the second 10 by any judgement - so it makes no sense to do behind close doors deals for everyone. When contoversy happens it is quite selective.

In terms of tech scoring, for example, 3A from Mao weights a lot. Well, no one else can make it. Why wouldn't such a huge weight go to Yulia's spins? No one else can make them and they are visually stunning.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

That is pretty much the way it was under 6.0 ordinal judging. I think the judges are doing it still. Is that good or bad?

I don't necessarily agree. I think a lot of times the judges feel more bound to stay true to the IJS when scoring programs. I'm sure many judges held their noses as they give high scores to one of Patrick's implosions when he still wins. I think most judges preferred Caro and/or Yuna's performance to Adelina's. If the argument is that Adelina won because of bad technical calls, then that would mean the judges wouldn't have had her in first otherwise. That's a very different thing than saying the judges would have placed Adelina first no matter what.

 

[usethis2]

In terms of tech scoring, for example, 3A from Mao weights a lot. Well, no one else can make it. Why wouldn't such a huge weight go to Yulia's spins? No one else can make them and they are visually stunning.

I have no problem with making a new rule. Make an argument as to why spins like Yulia's should receive higher points in the COP and persuade others to vote. Rules should last for a reasonable time period (say, 2 quads or longer) so that everyone has equal notice and equal chance to try. Other than that her spins are already rewarded in GOE along with other bullet points.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

But it's harder for her to get positive GOE with her weaker jump technique ,fairly so, than say for a weaker spinner to get positive GOE , I say unfairly so.

It looks like she may be the ladies #1 or #2 in world standings anyway going into next season with the judging system as is. So it's probably fine. I wish they would just stop awarding too high GOE to bad spinners. That would be enough for me.

Anyway..I started a thread on this which is probably a better place to discuss it.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-and-Undervalued-in-Figure-Skating&highlight=