The Judging Controversy Thread

[ginal]

The crap judging has been going on forever. I just saw NBC's program about Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding. First of all, Nancy looks GREAT. Secondly, harking back to those days, I do not think Oksana Baiul should have won and if you see the judges who placed her first, it is again, the same old crowd of old soviet countries. I know Oksana is ukrainian and there is definitely anti-russian sentiment in the western part of ukraine but I still think there is this support for this "eastern bloc". Nancy had higher technical content and yet Oksana won. I wonder what Scott that idiot Hamilton said about that back then, since he's such a stickler for higher technical content. I'm sure he justified Oksana's victory in some way. I would have taken off 5 points just for Oksana's horribly tacky outfit, my eyes were bleeding.

Nancy's funny. When they flashbacked to her asking why they were waiting for the awards ceremony and she was told that oksana was reapplying her makeup and Nancy says, what's the point, she's just going to start crying again, that was so funny and so true. I love Nancy.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm gonna try a fresh approach here and see what happens. It's obvious that the people at the top levels of each country's federations should possess some of the most knowledge when it comes to judging and skating in general...in most cases this should hold up. How about instead of making villains out of everyone we show some faith and fix the system at its root to promote fairness. How about at skate America we have primarily a Russian panel and no one from USFSA. Apply this across the board and maybe it will pressure the judges to be a little if not a lot more fair? So Americans will judge in CoR ,French at NRK, etc. I certainly agree the judges need to defend their scoring with more than simple 8's and 7.5's etc.on a score sheet and call it a day. Lets have them submit a report and field questions from the media or even just the coaches! with replays being allowed in said press conference. Lets not tear it down but let's build it up? Thoughts??

 

[yuki90]

http://us.cnn.com/2014/02/23/sport/sochi-olympics-memorable-moments/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Brian Boitano says YuNa should have won the gold on CNN NEWS.

 

[kslr0816]

http://us.cnn.com/2014/02/23/sport/sochi-olympics-memorable-moments/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Brian Boitano says YuNa should have won the gold on CNN NEWS.

hope he explained exactly why, breaking it down

 

[Ven]

hope he explained exactly why, breaking it down

Not really. He gave the same bs red herring arguments, then the caveat at the end that Yuna should have won.

But he said "Sot = technical" and "Yuna = artist" and "personal preference" which is not true in CoP.

If Yuna was such an artist and Sot was lacking in refined components areas, then how did she score 0.09 within Kim and get the 2nd highest PCS of all time?

 

[pangtongfan]

I have to laugh at how Kim is suddenly potrayed as a lacking technical skater. Her jumps are overall better quality than Sotnikova, or anyone else today for that matter, while she did 1 less triple she had the guts to do the triple lutz-triple toe in both programs unlike Sotnikova so it evens out in my mind (regardless if it does in the combined base value or not), and while Sotnikova has better spins Kim still has very good spins which were never scored that far below the best spinners until this event. Her footwork is normally always level 4 and very well done, while Sotnikova rarely gets a level 4 except for here. Her speed and basic skating is also superior to Sotnikova. While Sotnikova does compare more favorably in technical ability than artistic in this machup, Kim in no way comes up short even in the technical comparision especialy when Sotnikova is flutzing, doing a triple toe-triple in the short, and stumbling badly out of a jump in the long program.

The urban legend that Sotnikova somehow turned in a superior technical competition is just a way to not embarass Sotnikova further and make it seem like while Kim was clearly robbed, it wasnt to the astonising degree it was.

 

[hurrah]

Brian Boitano nor any other skating expert wants to be responsible for getting figure skating kicked out of Olympics. If a detailed analysis of the scores were to be really done, it would reveal that cheating has been constant right the way through.

 

[Ven]

Brian Boitano nor any other skating expert wants to be responsible for getting figure skating kicked out of Olympics. If a detailed analysis of the scores were to be really done, it would reveal that cheating has been constant right the way through.

:thumbsup:

I find it hard to believe they don't know what's going on. Maybe they honestly believe what they are saying on tv, who knows. I don't want to judge too much. But I find it hard to believe.

I'm not accusing one person, but saying in general; anyone who knows a lie and doesn't speak out against it, they are just as guilty.

 

[Figure 8's]

Yuna skated after Adelina. She had every opportunity to lay it on the line and she did not. When the judges scored Adelina they had no way of knowing how Yuna would do. They had been very generous with the scores all night. If Yuna had skated like the champion she is, she would have gotten higher scores.

 

[jenaj]

Yuna skated after Adelina. She had every opportunity to lay it on the line and she did not. When the judges scored Adelina they had no way of knowing how Yuna would do. They had been very generous with the scores all night. If Yuna had skated like the champion she is, she would have gotten higher scores.

Sorry, I don't agree. Adelina's LP score (149) was ridiculously high. There was nothing Yuna could have done to get a score like that. Her 2010 score was 150 before the scoring was changed to eliminate the spiral sequence and a third double axel. I believe the GOE scoring was modified, too, in the wake of Yuna's high score at Vancouver. And she did skate like the champion she is.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I'm gonna try a fresh approach here and see what happens. It's obvious that the people at the top levels of each country's federations should possess some of the most knowledge when it comes to judging and skating in general...in most cases this should hold up. How about instead of making villains out of everyone we show some faith and fix the system at its root to promote fairness. How about at skate America we have primarily a Russian panel and no one from USFSA. Apply this across the board and maybe it will pressure the judges to be a little if not a lot more fair? So Americans will judge in CoR ,French at NRK, etc. I certainly agree the judges need to defend their scoring with more than simple 8's and 7.5's etc.on a score sheet and call it a day. Lets have them submit a report and field questions from the media or even just the coaches! with replays being allowed in said press conference. Lets not tear it down but let's build it up? Thoughts??

Maybe then we could come here and enjoy chatting with each other and let the people with vested interests enjoy these bitter debates! We could just

 

[hurrah]

Carolina is the rightful winner of the OGM at Sochi!
Yuna was clean enough but she lacked the power of her peak years. Carolina was at her best!

 

[moviechick]

Brian Boitano nor any other skating expert wants to be responsible for getting figure skating kicked out of Olympics. If a detailed analysis of the scores were to be really done, it would reveal that cheating has been constant right the way through.

Yeah, skating's popularity is already at a historical low and a lot of these former skaters still get work from commentating, shows, etc. They have an interest in keeping the sport alive and well. And really, another scandal is just going to be the nail in the coffin. They are not going to cry foul when they make money off the sport.

 

[pangtongfan]

Yuna skated after Adelina. She had every opportunity to lay it on the line and she did not. When the judges scored Adelina they had no way of knowing how Yuna would do. They had been very generous with the scores all night. If Yuna had skated like the champion she is, she would have gotten higher scores.

I dont see how Yu Na did not deliver. When she finished I think everyone was expecting a score over 150 in the victory. Basically the same TES as Worlds last year, and several points higher PCS (considering Sotnikova had higher PCS already in the LP than Kim got at Worlds last year). I already explained this on another thread but a good sign of this is the betting odds. Since I had bet 2000 on Sotnikova winning as I was convinced fully the fix was in after the short and judges draw for the LP I chose to follow the odds ticker as well as the skating. I became briefly worried they were going to do the right thing and actually give it to Kim after her performance finished and her odds to win suddenly went way back down to 1-6 (vs the 1-3 she started the night at but elevated to 5-1 after Sotnikovas score) so they obviously even expected Kim had done it and would get a score like that when she finished.

 

[starrynight]

Yeah, skating's popularity is already at a historical low and a lot of these former skaters still get work from commentating, shows, etc. They have an interest in keeping the sport alive and well. And really, another scandal is just going to be the nail in the coffin. They are not going to cry foul when they make money off the sport.

Yeah, sad but true. In the end, there's always money.

 

[moviechick]

Yeah, sad but true. In the end, there's always money.

Even regardless of money, would you really want the sport you worked hard all your life at and achieved so much in to be seen a laughing stock/expelled from the Olympics? Of course not. Who wants to be a former Olympic champion in a sport that no longer exists at the Olympics lol.

 

[jenaj]

I dont see how Yu Na did not deliver. When she finished I think everyone was expecting a score over 150 in the victory. Basically the same TES as Worlds last year, and several points higher PCS (considering Sotnikova had higher PCS already in the LP than Kim got at Worlds last year). I already explained this on another thread but a good sign of this is the betting odds. Since I had bet 2000 on Sotnikova winning as I was convinced fully the fix was in after the short and judges draw for the LP I chose to follow the odds ticker as well as the skating. I became briefly worried they were going to do the right thing and actually give it to Kim after her performance finished and her odds to win suddenly went way back down to 1-6 (vs the 1-3 she started the night at but elevated to 5-1 after Sotnikovas score) so they obviously even expected Kim had done it and would get a score like that when she finished.

You bet against Yuna? And you claim to be a fan?!

 

[bek41]

They didn't know how Yuna would do that's precisely why they gave Adelina a ridiculously high score... There was no way Yuna would have gotten a score higher than a 149, even if she skated even better than she did in Vancouver.

 

[hurrah]

They didn't know how Yuna would do that's precisely why they gave Adelina a ridiculously high score... There was no way Yuna would have gotten a score higher than a 149, even if she skated even better than she did in Vancouver.

The 150+ score Yuna got was to ensure HER win against Mao and her TWO triple-axels, and since there was no way they could scheme things enough to guarantee Yuna's win over two triple-axels AND a triple flip-triple loop combo, and since it so happens to be that Mao's got one of the best triple loop jump in combination in the business, they simply stopped ratifying all second loops including Miki's.

The only way ISU can continue to cheat is if they change the scoring system every four years drastically, so that scores can't be systematically compared. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going to happen nextーa complete overhaul of CoP.

 

[cooper]

The 150+ score Yuna got was to ensure HER win against Mao and her TWO triple-axels, and since there was no way they could scheme things enough to guarantee Yuna's win over two triple-axels AND a triple flip-triple loop combo, and since it so happens to be that Mao's got one of the best triple loop jump in combination in the business, they simply stopped ratifying all second loops including Miki's.

The only way ISU can continue to cheat is if they change the scoring system every four years drastically, so that scores can't be systematically compared. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what's going to happen nextーa complete overhaul of CoP.

i doubt it.. have you read their official statement??