lol indeed. XD
The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
- Start date
lol indeed. XD
All I really care about is what the order of the podium should have been. I don't care about the ISU, IOC, whatever, any kind of corruption going on - I just care about what SHOULD have been. It doesn't matter how corrupt the ISU is - because they've created a system that makes it impossible to tell, and have guarded themselves well. The only way you're going to find corruption in this system is through a confession or some real, evidence - I've seen nothing that solidifies that for me. Guilty until proven innocent right (though I don't know that that is how it works in Russia lol)
I'm NOT saying that there was not bias and unfair scoring going on. Even DMD agrees with that, believe it or not.
For the hundredth time, it's just detracting from the conversation at hand. Should Yuna have gotten gold? The general consensus, outside of maybe 5-10 posters, seem to think yes. That includes people who actually skate, other countries, most in the USA that even care, etc.
I'm NOT saying that there was not bias and unfair scoring going on. Even DMD agrees with that, believe it or not.
For the hundredth time, it's just detracting from the conversation at hand. Should Yuna have gotten gold? The general consensus, outside of maybe 5-10 posters, seem to think yes. That includes people who actually skate, other countries, most in the USA that even care, etc.
LoL. I'm totally out of topic with this thread right now but what the heck. What can I do, I like to talk about skating so don't mind me. Just continue on.
So, for those who liked the step sequence 100 post I did back here:
www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthrea...spiracy-thread&p=874581&viewfull=1#post874581
Take a look at this for the actual technical moves where you can compare them side by side:
www.feverskating.com/fevers/65097603
By the way, for those of you who don't know R- right, L - Left, F - forward, B - backward, I - inside, O - outside (edge)
The side-by-side step sequence video is here:
tvpot.daum.net/v/v87a2CxPLCLTHxxCQQJLXGL
Here are the picture comparing ice coverage
i.imgur.com/2I8PTPb.jpg
i.imgur.com/mEo6mFQ.jpg
i.imgur.com/xanuQIb.jpg
Here's the videos of the overall rink... You can clearly watch the flow of the step sequence, as well as speed with which that ice coverage is done:
Yuna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBS2vGzEeZY#t=105 (starts 4:30 for stsq)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArFeS8JbfdQ (starts around 2:10 for stsq)
Adelina: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGDkhi9lmSY (starts around 3:20 for stsq)
to be honest, I didn't notice how far apart they were at first, and even then, I saw the difference, but the more I look at it now, the more the difference becomes obvious. And I'm not even a trained judge.
@usethis2 You're right. the 2A and 3S as a comparison is just... face meet my hand.
So, for those who liked the step sequence 100 post I did back here:
www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthrea...spiracy-thread&p=874581&viewfull=1#post874581
Take a look at this for the actual technical moves where you can compare them side by side:
www.feverskating.com/fevers/65097603
By the way, for those of you who don't know R- right, L - Left, F - forward, B - backward, I - inside, O - outside (edge)
The side-by-side step sequence video is here:
tvpot.daum.net/v/v87a2CxPLCLTHxxCQQJLXGL
Here are the picture comparing ice coverage
i.imgur.com/2I8PTPb.jpg
i.imgur.com/mEo6mFQ.jpg
i.imgur.com/xanuQIb.jpg
Here's the videos of the overall rink... You can clearly watch the flow of the step sequence, as well as speed with which that ice coverage is done:
Yuna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBS2vGzEeZY#t=105 (starts 4:30 for stsq)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArFeS8JbfdQ (starts around 2:10 for stsq)
Adelina: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGDkhi9lmSY (starts around 3:20 for stsq)
to be honest, I didn't notice how far apart they were at first, and even then, I saw the difference, but the more I look at it now, the more the difference becomes obvious. And I'm not even a trained judge.
@usethis2 You're right. the 2A and 3S as a comparison is just... face meet my hand.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I read somewhere that nearly 90% of the petition signers were from South Korea.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
The point you are missing is that the judges know what the skaters are capable of before the skating begins. They watch in practice, have judged before, or just watch video highlights. They probably, maybe even unfairly, have a par for each skater that they will be inclined to give based on the perfomance and this number may sway based on the day/skate. This will be subconcience to some and unfortantely deliberate for others. The fact is that these judges are there and are prone to being swept away. It seems most of them were. Lets examine for a second the effect of this home town"love". While propelling Adelina to the skate of her life it tore apart Yulia. It is a double edged sword and I think the judges fairly could add inflation/bonus if so inclined and defend it within ISU guidelines. I think Adelina should have been closer to 145 and Yuna a little lower herself but I'm just one person and this isn't even a 1 judge sport. You need to factor thru the oppinions of the whole panel, which represent the federations and their standards of exellence, to conclude upon 1 score!! I think the judges overeacted but I also think it's very likely they did it within the ISU guidelines and like I've maintained all along...ISU guidelines are the issue. Can we please stop insulting cultures and oppinions here?
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Sorry, under Soviet domination.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2014
You know what? Go check and then come back.
P.S. I noticed you deleted your post. I appreciate that.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I wouldn't go as far as to say "unfair", because how does one address home cooking? It happens everywhere and it's because judges respond favorably to the audience reaction. Unless we place them in sound-proof booths and shield their view of the crowd I'm not sure how you would fix that.
different petition - and not sure on the %, i don't think it's publicized, but wouldn't be surprised. if the yuna were one of the american skaters, i.e., Gracie Gold, you can bet USA would be signing that petition.
If bias is not "unfair," then are you saying it is "fair?" It's really one or the other. Happening everywhere doesn't make it fair or not. And last I checked, audience reaction is not a basis for which the judges give scores. It can't be "fixed," as you say. My case, and many, many others, is that the biased scoring was enough to change the order of the podium. I know you disagree, which is fine. A mental exercise - in which countries would you expect Adelina to have won outside of Russia? (Rhetorical)
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Unless you count the Interpretation and Presentation which does gage the connection to the audience and apply directly to the PCS based on effectiveness.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
It's not "fair" but I don't see it as "unfair". For it to be unfair IMO there would have to be some purposeful aspect to it. Excitement is a contagious emotion, so I don't judges purposefully mark up the program based on that. We are basically asking the judges "was this a good performance?" and I think the reaction from the crowd is one way they subconsciously assess that.
It's kind of like how most people prefer MK's 6-triple '98 Nats program to her 7-triple Oly program on the basis of the latter was more "flat". Well, what does that mean exactly? She was "cautious" and skated slower? I think it is more her feeding off the crowd and they her at Nationals, which is the same feeling I got watching the crowd falling in love with Julia and Adelina.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
Here's a suggestion:
Going forward, tech panels should not include any country from the projected top 5 countries OR it should include ONLY members from the top 5 countries picked at random (like the judging panel). In ladies, it would have included South Korea, Italy, Russia, Japan, US in the draw for the tech panel. This would have reduced the :think: people are having over Lakernick and Baranova on the tech panel.
Another thought would be to insulate the judges from the "roar of the crowd" somehow...
Going forward, tech panels should not include any country from the projected top 5 countries OR it should include ONLY members from the top 5 countries picked at random (like the judging panel). In ladies, it would have included South Korea, Italy, Russia, Japan, US in the draw for the tech panel. This would have reduced the :think: people are having over Lakernick and Baranova on the tech panel.
Another thought would be to insulate the judges from the "roar of the crowd" somehow...
Ah, good point. I'm assuming though, that can't be of significant amount, can it?
BTW, if true, it's the best explanation yet as to why Adelina and Yulia's PCS were as high as they were.
In other words, the dead silence for nearly all other skaters except for the Russians had impact, either subconsciously or through an interpretation of and into PCS, did play a role in the scoring?
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
I liked your step sequence post so much that I made a copy & printed it to read on the train tonight -- no kidding! If you're not a teacher, you'd make a really good one.
btw, you can post the actual links - it's just the very first post you make you can't.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Excellent point. I posted earlier in this sea of a thead that the federations should judge in the other federations events. For example NRK would have a French picked panel of judges, Cor would have Americans pick the panels and so on and so forth. I would love to see a majority of Russian judges at Skate America for example. This would force the judges to face crowd backlash and have potential to curve some favoritism to an extent at least. I would love for the judges to defend their scores in front of the coaches and federations in a press conference after the medal ceremony or within a day or two. I may be dreaming but making steps in this direction would really promote fairness to the sport I love and work within.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
That is home cooking. I don't think the Japanese crowd would be too enthusiastic for Yuna if her and Mao were close after the SP at the upcoming worlds either.
Right, but I have to imagine the judges would have enough sense to limit how much that impacts their scoring? In other words, shouldn't they have, in this instance, taken into consideration that they know how much the crowd will be cheering for Adelina and Yulia, regardless of how well they performed?
i.e., didn't the crowd cheer when Yuna had a wobble on one of her landings? should that play a role also, as a further negative for Yuna? Doesn't the rule/notion imply cheering for your skater only, and being silent or even booing/cheering the mistakes of other skaters?
