Well, I thought that was one of the things we discussed. Why Yuna's scores were held down in levels and GOEs while Adelina was showered with never-before-seen GOE and PCS.
The Judging Controversy Thread
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Well, I thought that was one of the things we discussed. Why Yuna's scores were held down in levels and GOEs while Adelina was showered with never-before-seen GOE and PCS.
Gold, Lipnitskaia, and Sotnikova are not even in the same league as Kim, Asada, and Kostner. In fact, it's been that way since forever. But suddenly in the last month, they are able to outscore them apples to apples.
But Gracie and Julia didn't outscore Kim, Asada or Kostner. Not in TES, Not in PCS or overall. :think:
Again, you can't make a case out of a hypothetical scenario.
Someone brought up the discussion of the French newspaper report. I commented that Gracie's score in the free skate was also suspect, compared the scores she has always received, and compared to her clean team skate.
It's not like Gracie had a magical moment and gave the skate of her life out there. She fell and made some mistakes. How she could have been scored so high does not make sense. Even more curious that American judge was swapped out and in came the Russians and Ukrainians.
Gold, Lipnitskaia, and Sotnikova are not even in the same league as Kim, Asada, and Kostner. In fact, it's been that way since forever. But suddenly in the last month, they are able to outscore them apples to apples.
Yup. The notion that one-fall Yuna/Mao/Caro equal one-fall Gracie or two-fall Yulia is absurd, to be frank.
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Well she got 68.33 PCS, lower than Asada's 69.68 by a measly 1.35. That's a major problem. But she wouldn't have outscored any of them had she gone clean. She would gain 1 for the fall and 2 for the GOE. Putting her sub-140 still.
Apples to apples...what do you think Julia's score would have been in the free skate if she had not fallen essentially twice?
Gold's?
Sotnikova's score bested Kim's Les Mis and almost set a new world record. Would anyone raise their hand if they thought Sotnikova's scores were deserved in comparison?
To say she deserved her scores because of jumping is also inaccurate...she flutzed and had an UR that weren't called.
I don't think he is muddying the picture. He is suggesting legitimately possible hypothesis. (unless you think they can never go clean)
Gracie Gold's PCS rose from the team to the individual because she was unjustly lowballed in the team event. She had little reputation and was not on the radar coming into the games (outside of all the hype from US Nationals, which stayed within the US), and she was not skating for the gold medal favorite team. After she landed 7 triples in the team event, and everyone had a look at her skating, the judges realized they should have rewarded her more for what she did.
Her performance was also better in the individual, in spite of the fall, and her jumps had better flow, hence getting more +GOE (she had some tight landings in the team event).
You--and others--need to stop making a conspiracy theory out of EVERYTHING. It undermines any legitimate point you might have about the scoring system and whether it was properly utilized by the judges.
(well, it is a scary thought even though I laughed):agree:
When it comes to any effort to make a change, you got to focus on the EVIDENCE at hand. Using speculative beliefs of what could have happened doesn't really help things.
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- Sep 17, 2011
I actually thought Yuna's GOEs were more in line with reality here. I mean last year she got straight +2s and +3s for her layback. Adelina was just overscored, especially on her opening combination.
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- Jul 26, 2003
They want to get Gracie because of the L'Equipe article which based on the evidence of one Russian coach.
If you believe the article (and the coach), the conspiracy was pairs, dance and team and the players were Russia, U.S., and may be France and Italy.
Saying the article is right does not make sense.
1. Who benefited? Sotnikova and I and K. Maybe Plush in team.
Lipinitskaia got high scores in the team for what she did. Gracie got low scores in the team for what she did.
2. Frank complained about Gracie' s scores after the Team. Frank does not let go of that kind of grudge. Over 30 years later he is still complaining about Linda Fratianne' s scores. I would suggest that Gracie' s PCS went up for just that reason: to placate Frank and head trouble off at the pass.
3. Dick Button is right about two things. Why a French paper? I would presume the coach has good French contacts, which points to Morozov, who coached Florentine Amodio for quite a while, and coaches I and K now, or Zhulin, who coached Pechalat and Bourzat fir quite a while and now coaches Bobrova and Soloviev.
However, the only Russian team who got a raw deal this Olympics was B and S.
4. The other thing that Dick is right about is that they are too stupid to cheat. They are too busy with East Section infighting with West section. If they cheated it wouldn't be dance, it would be ladies. They have always felt that ladies was the whole pie
And the lady they would have been pushing for was Wagner.
Check they have given Meryl and Charlie so little hype before the games that interviewers are still not getting their names right- Meryl White and Charlie Davis.
If you believe the article (and the coach), the conspiracy was pairs, dance and team and the players were Russia, U.S., and may be France and Italy.
Saying the article is right does not make sense.
1. Who benefited? Sotnikova and I and K. Maybe Plush in team.
Lipinitskaia got high scores in the team for what she did. Gracie got low scores in the team for what she did.
2. Frank complained about Gracie' s scores after the Team. Frank does not let go of that kind of grudge. Over 30 years later he is still complaining about Linda Fratianne' s scores. I would suggest that Gracie' s PCS went up for just that reason: to placate Frank and head trouble off at the pass.
3. Dick Button is right about two things. Why a French paper? I would presume the coach has good French contacts, which points to Morozov, who coached Florentine Amodio for quite a while, and coaches I and K now, or Zhulin, who coached Pechalat and Bourzat fir quite a while and now coaches Bobrova and Soloviev.
However, the only Russian team who got a raw deal this Olympics was B and S.
4. The other thing that Dick is right about is that they are too stupid to cheat. They are too busy with East Section infighting with West section. If they cheated it wouldn't be dance, it would be ladies. They have always felt that ladies was the whole pie
And the lady they would have been pushing for was Wagner.
Check they have given Meryl and Charlie so little hype before the games that interviewers are still not getting their names right- Meryl White and Charlie Davis
.
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It is not a speculative "belief," but highly possible scenario that actually happens in real world. Without such "belief," we cannot juggle our daily life let alone figure skating. How long would you wait for the next "speculative" bus? How much money would you keep on yourself when you go to a "speculative" movie? How would a skater and a choreographer make a program without a "speculative" score that they can expect?
Turning a blind eye is probably not a satisfactory answer to most people.
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- Nov 30, 2007
Jaylee, Ven was trying to help me with how to broach the subject with the Equipe reporter who has covered this topic already since the team events, since I proposed to contact the reporter. In her first report, the focus was on the alleged deal between Russia and US. So, I don't think Ven has an issue per se with Gracie's scores.
Anyway, although many of us are upset about the results, we all seem to see the problems in slightly different ways.
Very sound analysis there.
She was lowballed into a personal best!
Gracie's score was reasonably accurate in the team event. The problem was Julia's score was grossly inflated by comparison. Obviously there was not a 12 point gap between the two.
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- Aug 1, 2011
They want to get Gracie because of the L'Equipe article which based on the evidence of one Russian coach.
If you believe the article (and the coach), the conspiracy was pairs, dance and team and the players were Russia, U.S., and may be France and Italy.
Saying the article is right does not make sense.
1. Who benefited? Sotnikova and I and K. Maybe Plush in team.
Lipinitskaia got high scores in the team for what she did. Gracie got low scores in the team for what she did.
2. Frank complained about Gracie' s scores after the Team. Frank does not let go of that kind of grudge. Over 30 years later he is still complaining about Linda Fratianne' s scores. I would suggest that Gracie' s PCS went up for just that reason: to placate Frank and head trouble off at the pass.
3. Dick Button is right about two things. Why a French paper? I would presume the coach has good French contacts, which points to Morozov, who coached Florentine Amodio for quite a while, and coaches I and K now, or Zhulin, who coached Pechalat and Bourzat fir quite a while and now coaches Bobrova and Soloviev.
However, the only Russian team who got a raw deal this Olympics was B and S.
4. The other thing that Dick is right about is that they are too stupid to cheat. They are too busy with East Section infighting with West section. If they cheated it wouldn't be dance, it would be ladies. They have always felt that ladies was the whole pie
And the lady they would have been pushing for was Wagner.
Check they have given Meryl and Charlie so little hype before the games that interviewers are still not getting their names right- Meryl White and Charlie Davis
^This. Times a quadrillion zillion dillion.
The USFSA has never given two figs about ice dancing. As Doris said, it is ALWAYS the ladies (with the gentlemen a distant second).
As I said in another post, you can also make a case that the real target for the L'Equipe article was Virtue and Moir, to upset them enough a Russian dance team could outskate them for silver. Really, you can spin this article several ways--which tells me for a conspiracy, it is not a particularly focused one. And all based on anonymous Russian coach.
Swiss cheese has fewer holes.
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- Nov 30, 2007
Celine Nonny, the author of that article, said herself in her next article on the ladies event that the deserving ones won until the ladies event. So she also finds only the ladies results controversial and does not swear by what she was told by the anonymous Russian coach.
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- Jul 26, 2003
Upsetting V and M is almost credible- they have had the Tessa and Scott reality show on tv and they have revealed far too much about themselves. Someone might have believed they could mess with their heads.
