The Politics of Figure Skating

[Doggygirl]

Agree, and they are not interchangeable. One is planned attack by two or more participants to throw a competition. We know of one proven; we also know of tapping,and so many more written in books. Those are conspiracies.

The Cultural Bias is more innate in that it comes from the soul of the person in power to give credit to people of his own ilk. This form is more obvious when scoring is open. There is no conspiracy here; it is just human nature.

Joe

Joe, I totally agree with you on the distinct difference between a conspiracy and a cultural bias (human nature).

 

[Piel]

More Nascar, definitely. That seems to be slowing up too.

Thank God!

 

[Mathman]

Here is the link (posted by Ptichka in the other thread) that gives the breakdown of the Torino judging panels by country.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-170742-187960-97851-0-file,00.pdf

Hot diggity dog! Now we can really get our conspiracy/cultural bias engines racing!

Let’s see here...Judging panel for ladies....

Oh no! Irina is dead meat! In her “cultural group” she has only Russia and Ukraine to stick up for her. Sasha and Michelle have Australia, Canada, France, Great Britain, Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Switzerland, Sweden and USA. OK, Carolina gets a vote from Italy, and I’m not sure we can fully trust Hungary, but still...

But in pairs, Totmianina and Marinen have Bulgaria, Estonia, Poland, Russia, Ukraine and Uzbekistan in their corner.

The only countries with judges in all four disciplines are USA, Canada and France. How about a bronze for French Canadian Joannie Rochette in exchange for a silver for US/Canadian team Belbin and Agosto?

MM

 

[hockeyfan228]

Looking at the list,

"Free Agents" No obvious contenders for podium or future considerations for country's skaters

Ladies:
Australia (Carter)
Great Britain (DNQ)
Netherlands (DNQ)
Sweden (Johansson--could still be injured and needs top 10 at Euros to be sent)

Dance:
Azerbaijan (Fraser/Lukanin)
Hungary (Hoffmann/Elek)
Great Britain (DNQ)

Men:
Belarus (Davydov)
Romania (Chiper)
Sweden (Berntsson--needs top 10 at Euros to be sent)

Pairs:
Estonia (Rennik/Saks)
Slovakia (DNQ)
Uzbekistan (Aganina/Knyazev)


"Obvious Sacrifices" -- judge in one discipline, podium contender in another:

Switzerland: Ladies (Meier), podium contender Men (Lambiel)


"Future Considerations" -- no obvious contenders for podium until after the Olympics:

Great Britain: Dance (Kerr/Kerr), Ladies (DNQ)

Israel: Dance (Chait/Sakhnovski)

Japan: Men (Honda/Takahashi/Oda), Dance (Watanabe/Kido)

Poland: Pairs (Zagorska/Siudek -- sentimental favorites for podium at Euros 2007 in Warsaw)


"Sacrificial Lambs: One or more contenders-medals or future consideration, one or more non-contenders:

Bulgaria (1/2): Dance (Denkova/Staviyski), Men (DNQ), Pairs (Spassova/Todorov)

Canada (1/3): Men (Buttle, Sandhu), Ladies (Rochette), Pairs (Marcoux/Buntin), Dance (Dubreuil/Lauzon)

China (1/1): Pairs (Shen/Zhao, Pang/Tong, Zhang/Zhang), Men (Li [dark horse])

France (2/2): Men (Joubert), Dance (Delobel/Schoenfelder), Ladies (DNQ), and Pairs (Pla/Bonheur)

Italy (2/1): Dance (Fusar-Poli/Margoglio), Ladies (Kostner), Men (Zelenka)

Ukraine (1/2): Dance (Grushina/Goncharov), Pairs (Volosozhar/Morozov),
Ladies (Liashenko)

US (3/1 or 2/2): Men (Weir, Lysacek), Ladies (Cohen, Kwan), Dance (Belbin/Agosto, if she gets citizenship in time), Pairs (Inoue/Baldwin, Orscher/Lucash)

Germany (2): Men (Lindemann), Pairs (Savchenko/Skolkowy -- if she gets citizenship in time)


"Big Sacrifice" -- Number of judges=number of podium contenders

Russia (3): Men (Plushenko), Pairs (Totmianina/Marinin, Petrova/Tikhonov and Obertas/Slavnov -- could be secondary sacrifices), Dance (Navka/Kostomarov -- considered such a shoo-in that perversely, the vote could be traded)

Canada has the most leeway: three judges (L/D/P) who could be traded to put more power behind its Men's entries. Italy could put two (D/M) behind Kostner. Ukraine could put two (P/L) behind Grushina/Goncharov. Bulgaria could put two (M/P) behind Denkova/Staviyski.

Of course, some could be contingent: if, for example, Men's wasn't close, any deals made on behalf of the Men could be off.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Has Irina kidnapped the firstborn child of every ISU judge and is holding her/him for ransom?

Well that explains all the Irina is pregnant threads over the years. All this time she was really stealing judges babies and hiding them under her coat . She looked pregnant,someone posted, and the rest is history.

lol

 

[Doggygirl]

Well that explains all the Irina is pregnant threads over the years. All this time she was really stealing judges babies and hiding them under her coat . She looked pregnant,someone posted, and the rest is history.

lol

MM & Hockeyfan, thanks for posting the judge / nationality info. As Joe has stated, national bias just due to human nature will always be an issue. But if there is any WUZ HELDUP for Russian or Eastern European skaters in the ladies division, then that USA judge will have a whole bunch to answer for.

DG

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think this thread has gotten sillier and sillier. Maybe it's Olys jitters.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Hockeyfan, you're my hero! We should invent a "fantasy league" game where we can play all this out.

BravesSkateFan,

Joe, interesting comments about cultural bias. It has been my impression that when figure skating buffs use that phrase they are mostly talking about a cultural preference for a certain type of skating. Like judges trained in Russian ballet prefer pairs and dance teams that incorporate choreography that invokes this spirit.

It took Shen and Zhao a decade to learn how to stop skating Chinese and start skating European.

About the human nature aspect of feeling a bond with folks of one's own ethnicity and culture, I think it could work the other way, too. Knowing that we all have such tendencies, it seems like a judge would consciously bend over backward to give fair consideration to skaters from other cultures.

MM

 

[gezando]

It took Shen and Zhao a decade to learn how to stop skating Chinese and start skating European

How "Chinese" were S&Z's skating 10 years ago, and how European are their current skating??? I thought it took them 10 years to develop a rapport that transcends technique, and choreography, and that is what make them lovely for me to watch. They have always chosen both Chinese and European music throughout their career, and have varying degree of success.

Was Lu Chen skaitng Chinese in 1995, 96, and 98 at the peak of her competitive career, and how non Chinese is her skating since??

Knowing that we all have such tendencies, it seems like a judge would consciously bend over backward to give fair consideration to skaters from other cultures

I guess when Van Cliburn, and Oliveira won the PIT international competition, the judges were bending over backwards, so are they the recepients of tokenism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tchaikovsky_International_Competition#Piano

 

[Mathman]

As an example of what I would call Chinese skating as opposed to Russian skating, I would contrast, say, Hao Zhang with Anton Sikharudlize. Both "manly men," but Zhang just cannot bring himself to move his body with fluid grace -- that's too sissy, too much at odds with how men move in ordinary life, in his culture (in my inexpert opinion, of course). European judges would give Sikharudlidze the gold medal every time, for his balletic line, etc., etc.

On human nature (LOL), I think we have conflicting impulses. On the one hand, we tend to circle the wagons around our family and countrymen, especially when we feel threatened. On the other, we enjoy learning about other cultures and making new friends. (It looks like the Tchaikovsky competition people are more into the wagon-circling mode, LOL)

BTW, it has been my experience that figure skating audiences are right up there in the "making new friends" department, certainly compared to enthusiastic fans of other sports. At the annual Marshall's cheesefest in Detroit --

-- Time out -- How dare they move it to Boston this year?! Blankety-blank Bean-towners, never could stand them! --

-- as I say, we Detroiters go out of our way to welcome international competitors. In recent years, Slutskaya, Arakawa, Plushenko and Joubert have been especial crowd favorites, even when they win against home favorites Kwan, Cohen, Weiss, etc.

MM

 

[Mathman]

However...When it comes to cultural influences on the politics of figure skating (the topic of this thread), IMHO it is the political culture of the ISU and the international figure skating community that deserves scrutiny.

As far as I can tell, this is primarily a culture of the "old boy" network (sort of like the U.S. federal government under the present administration). Insider coaches like Oleg Vasiliev and Tamara Moskvina are buddy-buddy with powerful federation officials like Valentin Piseev, and who knows how this affects the results of competitions down the line?

In a post on the other thread, Lee (great post, Lee) expressed optimism that the times, they are a-changing. As the old guard dies out the new CoPers will bring a new era of openness and moral accountability to the sport. We'll see.

MM

 

[gezando]

As an example of what I would call Chinese skating as opposed to Russian skating, I would contrast, say, Hao Zhang with Anton Sikharudlize. Both "manly men," but Zhang just cannot bring himself to move his body with fluid grace -- that's too sissy, too much at odds with how men move in ordinary life, in his culture (in my inexpert opinion, of course).

I have the pleasure of watching Hao Zhang in competition, IMO his so call lack of "fluid grace" has more to do with the way he is built. He is blessed with build of a linebacker or a hockey forward. IMO, it has nothing to do with bringing himself to move llke a sissy. To say that is related to his Chinese culture JMO is at risk of flirting with sterotyping.

European judges would give Sikharudlidze the gold medal every time, for his balletic line, etc., etc.

I don't think it is particularly a Russian thing to have balletic lines, I am sure some of Russian guys from your beloved Red Wings don't move with balletic grace. I also have the opportunity to watch Sikharudidze and Tong, IMO Tong has a better line. I think Peggy Flemming loves to gush about Tong too.

IMO Zhang and Tong are just equally comfortable in their Chinese heritage. BTW, they are taught by the same coaches.

On the other, we enjoy learning about other cultures .

But how much effort do people usually put in to learn about other cultures, before steroetypes set in. LOL, growing up I watch PIT's nutcracker almost every year around Christmas time, dont even know how many different productions of nutcrakers. Ya know what, when it comes to choreographing the Chinese dance, they all make the 2 little Chinese guys hop around with their index fingers pointing to the roof, or they are bouncing around in the most odd way. I bet that was the way choreographers in PIT's time did it, and that had not changed. Get real, no one on earth walks like that.

as I say, we Detroiters go out of our way to welcome international competitors. In recent years

Hmm.. I am treading on thin ice here, but none the less it is history. So you mean Detroiters have learnt much from the 1980s? (Remember the Chinese guy who was mistakened for a Japanese?)

 

[Mathman]

I guess I'm just confused at how human nature and culture interact, in the context of figure skating politics (the putative topic of this thread).

To me, human nature means what we all have in common, while culture is how we tell each other apart.

I do think that body language learned at mother's knee is a part of a person's culture, and something that is not easily changed. Maybe it's a steoreotype, but it seems to me, for instance, that Italian and Spanish men move more sinuously than German and Scandinavian men, and that this has something to do with why we speak stereotypically of the "Latin lover" but not of the "Teutonic lover."

Competitive and show figure skating is an historically European sport which then spread to "the colonies"; finally a few other countries decided to get into the act. No non-European won a world championship in figure skating until Barbara Ann Scott of Canada in 1947.

Is there an "American" figure skating style? Yes, I think there is. It's representatives are Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill and Michelle Kwan. To me, Michelle's skating is equal parts eye-popping glamour, demure grace, and girl-next-door charm. I think that has something to do with why Michelle is so immensely popular in the U.S.A., and only so-so in Europe.

IMO Michelle's Asian heritage is revealed more in the glimpses she gives of her off-ice personality -- respect for parents, setting high standards for herself, working hard, and never blaming other people when things don't go her way.

Maybe that's a stereotype, too. I heard a pop teen song on the radio that other day that went,

"I love you more than Asians are good at math!"

MM

 

[gezando]

I do think that body language learned at mother's knee is a part of a person's culture, and something that is not easily changed.

I agree culture is pass from one generation to the next, OTOH (and IMO more importantly) culture is dynamic . Therefore I disagree that it is not easily changed, because culture is active, dynamic and ever changing. Therefore, IMO attributing Zhang's "lack of fluid grace" to his culture is sterotyping.

Michelle is so immensely popular in the U.S.A., and only so-so in Europe.

In fact some guy in Paris once threatened to kill her, I don't think it has anything to do with her skating style.

Maybe that's a stereotype, too. I heard a pop teen song on the radio that other day that went,

pop song on a radio, Detroit does not have a jazz or classical music station?

"I love you more than Asians are good at math!"

MM

I have heard of that sterotype many times "Asians are good at math, and they are bad drivers" or the sterotypes of Latin lover. Here is what I think of sterotypes :disagree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As I said, this thread is silly. The school of skating comes directly from

SONIA HENIE​

The Mother of us All

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Here is what I think of stereotypes :disagree:

Yeah, me too.

 

[Rgirl]

I guess I'm just confused at how human nature and culture interact, in the context of figure skating politics (the putative topic of this thread).

To me, human nature means what we all have in common, while culture is how we tell each other apart.

I do think that body language learned at mother's knee is a part of a person's culture, and something that is not easily changed. Maybe it's a steoreotype, but it seems to me, for instance, that Italian and Spanish men move more sinuously than German and Scandinavian men, and that this has something to do with why we speak stereotypically of the "Latin lover" but not of the "Teutonic lover." Boldface added by Rgirl

Competitive and show figure skating is an historically European sport which then spread to "the colonies"; finally a few other countries decided to get into the act. No non-European won a world championship in figure skating until Barbara Ann Scott of Canada in 1947.

Is there an "American" figure skating style? Yes, I think there is. It's representatives are Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill and Michelle Kwan. To me, Michelle's skating is equal parts eye-popping glamour, demure grace, and girl-next-door charm. I think that has something to do with why Michelle is so immensely popular in the U.S.A., and only so-so in Europe.

IMO Michelle's Asian heritage is revealed more in the glimpses she gives of her off-ice personality -- respect for parents, setting high standards for herself, working hard, and never blaming other people when things don't go her way.

Maybe that's a stereotype, too. I heard a pop teen song on the radio that other day that went,

"I love you more than Asians are good at math!"

MM

There are classical ballet dancers, modern, and jazz dancers of all nationalities and from all free countries in the world, with the possible exception of some extremely poor third world countries. All men and women in ballet must adhere to the same basic movement style, although there are different techniques, but they would likely only be noticeable to someone with expertise in ballet.

I think the stereotypes you give to the way Latin and Italian men move are just that: stereotypes. The "Latin Lover" is something that has developed from books, theater, and film. For example, though Rudolph Valentino was indeed born in Italy, his most famous role was as an Arab in "The Sheik," though of course his facial features were hardly Arabian.

As for skating, the most sinuous and flowing male skater I've ever seen is Jian Tong of pairs team Pang & Tong. Also, having just watched Chinchiang Li in his SP from Cup of China, with new choreography, he skates very lyrically. People have commented a number of times on how new choreography makes a skater move in a different way, and this is what I feel happened to Li.

Re your comment about American skaters, while I do agree that there is basically an American style of skating--direct, not overly florished, and though influenced ballet not balletic the way Oksana Baiul was balletic. But I don't think Michelle's "so-so" popularity in Europe has more to do with the fact that she hasn't skated there much except for Worlds since 2001. Even before '01, when she was doing the GP circuit, she tended to go to Skate America and Skate Canada and avoided the European, Russian, and Asian events.

Certainly there are cultural influences, but when it comes to trained movement, I think it has far more to do with anatomical/physiological structure and style of training than with what one picks up from watching one's parents, though certainly genetics would have an influence.

Rgirl

 

[Rgirl]

Anyway, under the 6.0 system, it seems that judges could get together, decide the placements of the most likely top skaters, and as long as each skater performed decently, there wouldn't be a justifiable reason to question why some judges placed a skater in 4th, some in 2nd or 3rd, and some in 1st. Rgirl

Rgirl ... why couldn't this also work for the NJS? Why couldn't the judges get together and decide what the PCS scores should be for the top contenders ... regardless of how perfectly, or not, they skate at the competitions ... as long as they don't self-destruct.
Now I don't know about blatant cheating here. I just totally believe that they have already decided Irina is the best and will be marked accordingly, and that she would have to have probably more than 2 major errors before it would significantly show in the marks. Since they can't mess with the technical marks, the PCS is where they can play with things a bit.

And since Irina is an excellent competitor, I hardly see her making that many major errors in one program ... hence I feel she's assured the gold medal.
And for the record, if she skates well and deserves it, there will be no complaining on my part.

Sorry this goes way back to your Post #81, Nymkfan. The reason I don't think the cheating scenarios under the 6.0 system will work as easily under the NJS is because either one or two high and low scores are thrown out (depending on the size of the judging panel) and two or three random scores are thrown out. Assuming the two highs and lows are thrown out and two random scores are thrown out of a judging panel of 13, that means only five judges will determine who will end up in which place.

The only way the five determining judges could possibly know who they'd be is if somebody hacks the computers. Some say that's very easy to do; others say it isn't. Personally, I think the hackers who are talented enough to rig such a thing are making too much money in other areas where really big betting money or government overthrows are involved to dink around with figure skating, which doesn't even rate network coverage of the GPS anymore.

Mathman gives an example (p3, Post #41) in which, during a competition where less than 1.7 points separate the top two competitors a judge wants to fix, seven judges scores are counted (which hasn't happened yet) and certain other factors are in place, that a judge could raise the score of a given competitor by 1.7 points and therefore ensure her win.

I agree that it works out absolutely fine on paper but I think that in the real world, as I said before, too much luck has to go the way of the cheating judge in order to give him a realistic advantage. I'll list what has to go the cheating judge's way by luck: His scores can't be thrown out by random draw; his scores can't be thrown out as being the high or low; the skater he wants to win must skate that much better than the skater he wants to lose so that the "6" other judges (assuming MM's 7 determining judges, which is actually 5) more or less agree with him on PCS; and on TS, if the cheating judge's skater falls on any jump the skater he wants to lose executes well, that's more than 1.7 points right there so--pfft!--that's the end of the cheating judge's cheat.

If a bloc of 5 judges gets together and says, "Okay, we're giving Irinaa .50 higher PCS scores than any other skater on everything, no matter what Irina does," which is I think the scenario people who believe this tend to have in mind, then, in a panel of 13, those 5 judges will be reduced by 2 by virtue of having the two highest PCS scores. That leaves a bloc of 3, which might further be reduced by 1 or 2 depending on the random draw, although here luck has to work against the cheating judges, which is just as likely as it working for them. But let's split the difference and say 1 of the bloc gets thrown out by random. That leaves a bloc of 2. According to Mathman's and the little I've read of Dr. Rossano's theories, 2 judges could just as easily make Irina win as they could have under the OBO system. However, this is assuming there are no cheaters or human nature biases among the other judges towards another skater who is close to Irina in skating technical skills, component skills, and consistency.

As for me, I haven't seen any indication of the judges "wanting to give the OGM to Irina." All I've seen is her SP (on TV) and LP (online) from Cup of China (thanks Lynn51!). All the judging seemed fair and unbiased to me. I explained on another thread why the Beillman spiral (true Beillman with the double hand hold) is so difficult, especially with Irina's deep edges and speed. As far as I know, Irina is the only person in the world who can do the Beillman spin on both feet in both directions (forward and back) and as Susie Wynne noted in the slow-motion account of her final combo spin--which I grant you, she's been doing for 10 years, lol--every position was a clean, stretched picture.

I know, I'm wasting my typing re Irina and judging conspiracies. As Kip Dynamite says, "Peace, out."

Rgirl

 

[Rgirl]

The problem is Irina made two blatant errors in the Worlds 2005 SP and still wound up first by virtue of PCS scores, even though 3 other skaters had no errors. And that was in the SHORT program. At Worlds 2005, she did legitimately win the FS and the competition.

But the same thing could happen at Torino: Irina not being clean in the SP and winning it anyway, and then not being clean in the FS and winning that, too, despite other skaters turning in two clean programs with great skates. No other lady skater gets 8s in PCS, and judges give her those huge scores even when her skating doesn't rate them. It would be easy for Irina to walk away with the OGM even if others skate better than she does.

PRE-DECIDING A COMPETITION IS CHEATING. Period. Judges are supposed to mark on what they see in front of them, and under CoP, they are supposed to mark the tech scores AND the PCS scores based on actual PERFORMANCE, not REPUTATION.

The PCS scores are indeed based on actual performance and are supposed to reflect what are listed in the ISU criteria for each component, be it Skating Skills, Choreography, Performance/Execution, Transitions, or Interpretation. Except for the "execution" part of Performance/Execution, it should not matter if the skater makes mistakes, unless those mistakes interfere with the criteria of each component. In the example you cited from '05 Worlds, I assume you're talking about the top four skaters in the SP: Irina, Sasha, Michelle, and Carolina.

Irina's lowest PCS scores were in Transitions/Linking Footwork, but so were everybody else's (I stopped looking after the top eight). So Transitions are a wash. BTW, because T/LFW was lowest for at least the top 8 skaters, IMO the ISU either needs to explain it better in the COP so the skaters can improve on it or explain it better to the judges so they know what to look for. If your placement is directly correlated to your mean PCS score on T/LFW, something's a'miss. But it wasn't enough to make me think "Cheating!" or "Conspiracy!" It was only enough to make me think "COP really only in its first full year of use."

Irina's next lowest mean PCS score was in Performance/Execution, 7.50, as they should be since she flubbed her first and last Technical Elements, thus negatively impacting her P/E. Sasha's mean P/E scores were 7.64, which, IMO, is as it should be since I find her to be a strong performer and she made no mistakes other than going over the time limit, which was reflected in the -1.00 Time Deduction.

Irina's next lowest mean PCS score, 7.61, was in Choreography/Composition. Sasha's was 7.48, Michelle's 7.18, and Cara's 6.89. I didn't think any of the top 4 had very good choreography in '05, and though I think a case could be made for Sasha's LP having less repetition, Irina's jumps were more difficult, as was her circular FW. This is the PCS I think is most open to subjective interpretation and needs the most work on the wording of each element. OTOH, on TV it's difficult if not impossible to see the way the skater uses the ice. Does she just skate back and forth with an occasional diagonal for a Lutz entrance? Or are there are lot of 8s, 3s, and loops, along with straightline skating? Are jumps, spins, and the other Technical Elements part and parcel of the choreography? To me they are. I know I can't sit there and think, "Spiral sequence--not choreography. Groovy variation on Ina Bauer--choreography." Anyway, C/C needs work, IMO.

(Joe, I bet you remember the Danny Kaye song and dance "They're Doin' Choreography" from a film whose name escapes me. But I bet most of us remember Robin Williams doing his 30-second, "And Fosse! And Fosse! Martha Graham, Martha Graham! Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd! And Twyla! And Twyla!" from "The Birdcage.")

For Interpretation, Irina's mean PCS was 7.64; Sasha, 7.57; Michelle, 7.43; and Cara, 6.89.

For Skating Skills, Irina's mean PCS was 7.79; Sasha 7.68; Michelle 7.46; and Cara 7.18.

What I think would make more sense to do than comparing different skaters at a single event (this isn't directed at you Chuck; it's a suggestion for anyone who wants to see if there is bias judging in the PCS scores) is to follow the mean PCS scores of three skaters throughout the '04 GPS and '05 Worlds. They could either be skaters you have a hunch are being held up or down or just three different skaters. Heck, you can do them all if you want. But I think three would be sufficient to give you an idea if there is a bias towards Russian skaters. I realize Irina didn't compete during the GPS last season and she seems to be the one all the hub-bub's about.

Finally, and I know I'm guilty of doing this myself, but Chuck, could you please use your inside CAPS voice in these posts instead of your outside CAPS voice? I know, I annoy you no end.

Rgirl

 

[chuckm]

Irina did compete in the GPs last season. She won both of her events and the GPF. Here are her PCS FS scores from last season and this season:
57.44 7.10 7.00 7.30 7.20 7.30 2004 Cup of China
60.40 7.65 7.35 7.65 7.55 7.55 2004 Cup of Russia
61.12 7.70 7.40 7.75 7.65 7.70 2004 GPF

57.53 7.32 6.96 7.21 7.21 7.25 2005 Euros
66.07 8.43 7.93 8.43 8.21 8.29 2005 Worlds

63.60 8.05 7.60 8.05 7.95 8.10 2005 Cup of China

Her best skating of the 2004-2005 GP events was at Cup of China. She'd been completely off medication at the beginning of the season, but had started to feel unwell at GPF and had to go back on heavy doses of prednisone. That might explain her not-so-good performances at Nationals and Euros.

What is interesting about the GP scores for last season is that they rose for each competition despite the fact that she had more little mistakes at the GPF than she had at the earlier events. Although her Euros scores were lower than the GPF scores, no doubt because of her subpar performance, she got overall comparable or slightly higher scores at Euros than she got at Cup of China, and her skate at Cup of China was far superior to what she did in the Euros FS.

It's the escalation of the scores that grabs the attention. We didn't see 8s in Irina's averaged scores until Worlds last year, but we are now starting off the season with 8s. I expect the scores will go up again at CoR and the GPF. If she stays healthy, we may well see 9s for Euros and Torino.