The role of fans in shaping skaters’ careers

[noskates]

I understand that teenagers search Google for themselves and any other subject that interests them. I would be very surprised if elite skaters do that since I would imagine most of them are aware of the hideous and inexplicable trolls who delight in bringing anyone down for their own amusement. While the internet has opened up the world for many people, it has also brought out the meanness and plain cruelty in many others. Bringing down a skater to make your own favorite look better is so ridiculous it's almost laughable. Is any of that noise going to make any skater produce a clean program or land a quad? Not in this universe.

 

[saine]

There's a blurry and subjective line between simply comparing, and bringing down other skaters to make one's favorite look better.
To paraphrase one of my favorite mottos ever: Of course I think my skater is better than your skater, that's why they're my favorite skater.
As long as one stays polite (which again can be subjective), I personally see no issues in comparing skater's scores, supposed treatment etc.

After all, even skaters themselves sometimes hint they are/were not happy with the attention they got compared to others - correct me if I misremember, or if the media got it wrong, but wasn't there some tension regarding Zueva's training center with Virtue/Moir vs Davis/White themselves? And then some dissatisfaction when both Papadakis/Cizeron and Virtue/Moir belonged to the same coaching team?
Kudos to those who are positive toward all skaters, but most fans online don't fit into that category, and unless they're really vicious, I think that's fine and only human.

I understand that there is a line, that's why I gave an example of where I realized that there was a definite non-blurry line for me with calling another skater a nepobaby. It can be subjective with everyone and it is hard to be objective about a favourite skater not having the career their fans think they should have. Everyone wants what is best for their favourite (I'm no exception), and there's only so much of what is best for everyone's favourite that can go around.

 

[Magill]

The problem is unequal treatment, favouritism, biased or corrupted judging, bad sportsmanship, nepotism and other ugly phenomena do exist in this world and there is no reason to believe FS is somehow a blessed island where these things never happen. So when people speak of them, it is also our very subjective judgement if we think it is them being fans of one skater at an expense of another skater, or just stating their honest opinion of the situation, no matter who they like or not. As this is a discussion forum and not a court it is always difficult to judge. And just like some people tend to accuse others to stand up for their faves, so some other people will defend their faves fiercely, no matter what, no matter the facts, and this is the opposite side of this. So it makes things very very unclear.
I do not think anyone here is objective as we are all fans. otherwise we would not be posting here, and obviously it does affect the way we perceive any situation connected to FS basically. So I take any opinion here with a grain of salt.
Unless I agree with it, of course

 

[gsk8]

I do not think anyone here is objective as we are all fans. otherwise we would not be posting here, and obviously it does affect the way we perceive any situation connected to FS basically. So I take any opinion here with a grain of salt.
Unless I agree with it, of course

None of us are completely free from bias, especially as fans. But I do think it’s a bit too absolute to say no one here is “objective.” Many people can and do step back, acknowledge their preferences, and still evaluate a performance, score, or situation based on broader standards (technical rules, comparative quality, historical context, etc.).

Liking a certain skater doesn’t automatically mean every opinion is skewed in their favor. Some posters are actually very critical of their own favorites, which shows that a level of objectivity is possible. Of course, total neutrality is rare, but that doesn’t mean honest attempts at fairness and balanced judgment don’t exist.

So while I agree that fandom colors perception, I don’t think it cancels out the possibility of objectivity altogether.

 

[Wynter]

Fan support will always be a good thing. As said in the first post, having a strong fan support will give opportunities to skaters. This is not important if skaters pursue careers outside of skating after their competitive days, but skaters who wish to be a pro skater need fans. The more the better.

Whether the strong support is beneficial/harmful to the skater will depend on the skater' mindset, and said skater and their team could do something about it to ensure the skater's well-being.

AFAIK, in Alexandra's case, she's not crying backstage in Beijing Olympics because of fan expectations. Didn't she say that her coaching team said she'll win gold if she landed 5 quads? Fans have nothing to do with it.

 

[Anna K.]

So while I agree that fandom colors perception, I don’t think it cancels out the possibility of objectivity altogether.

Or, if to look at it from a slightly different perspective: the more colored the perception is, the more vitally needed objectivity becomes.

There was a period in my life when I dealt a lot with people who tried to solve their mental and social problems. So, when I hear a word “bias”, there is quite a picture in my memory of where unattended biases lead: anxiety, conflicts, social isolation, stress, depression, deformed picture of reality, paranoia, nervous breakdown and more. I believe that the perception of most users of this forum is not colored to the degree of any of the abovementioned (all right, maybe there are some minor conflicts and mild anxiety, in case of which conversations in this forum may serve as healing group therapy ). But, in cases when it is, dealing with personal biases becomes the first and main problem to overcome.

There is a belief that being objective means being free of biases. This is wrong. We are all living people. We have our likes, dislikes, attractions, avoidances and so on. Biases are inevitable. Being objective means knowing our biases, seeing them as objectively as possible, and taking them in account when we make our decisions and judgments. This is the only way how to get back to reality. I mean, that’s the only way how to explain this to people who want to solve their problems.

I hope that I have explained my own bias regarding the word “bias” well enough. Now, what I wanted to say regarding negative and toxic comments: being biased is one thing but being malevolent is something different. A person may be biased yet positive. And, a person may have overall quite objective picture of reality but be malevolent. It’s sad to admit but people who consciously aim to cause harm (to harm a specific person, or, to harm any random vulnerable person, or, to harm a specific organization or a cause) with their comments exist. A biased person deserves understanding. A malevolent person doesn’t

 

[Karoltyna]

Fan support will always be a good thing. As said in the first post, having a strong fan support will give opportunities to skaters. This is not important if skaters pursue careers outside of skating after their competitive days, but skaters who wish to be a pro skater need fans. The more the better.

Whether the strong support is beneficial/harmful to the skater will depend on the skater' mindset, and said skater and their team could do something about it to ensure the skater's well-being.

AFAIK, in Alexandra's case, she's not crying backstage in Beijing Olympics because of fan expectations. Didn't she say that her coaching team said she'll win gold if she landed 5 quads? Fans have nothing to do with it.

All right, but did she really said that? I thought it was some unhinged tiktok, the same that can't grasp that Sasha and Alexandra Trusova are the same person but will tell she performed 5 axels (or something like that). Is there a recoding of her saying that or her post in SM? I don't really follow russian skating, so I'm curious.

 

[TallyT]

I've been cautious about this thread as it touches on areas I am unblushingly NOT objective about... but I'll bite anyway.

Fans, fannish support and popularity has nothing like the effect on skaters' competitive career as the murkier aspects of fed politics/imbalance of power and officialdom/judging biases. Fans aren't in themselves going to influence scores or placement in/choice of competitions. Just look at Kazuki Tomono's public profile vs federation favour.

Where a strong fan base can make a difference competition-wise is in the matter of sponsorship aka m.o.n.e.y. A popular star gets sponsors, has access to better equipment and training (and doesn't have to worry about draining their family's bank accounts), more freedom in training overseas (ANA had a big hand, along with the JOC who could see where he was headed, in Yuzuru's ability to train at TCC while still at school in Japan), more choices in costumes etc (Satomi Ito and Vera Wang don't come cheap), getting media attention and better opportunities to showcase. That's not counting the personal benefits of financial security, public esteem and a good shot at shows and some form of professional career.

But the other big beneficiaries are of course officialdom and the (Japanese and Russian mostly) press which is why they are all always hunting for the next superstar.

 

[Wynter]

All right, but did she really said that? I thought it was some unhinged tiktok, the same that can't grasp that Sasha and Alexandra Trusova are the same person but will tell she performed 5 axels (or something like that). Is there a recoding of her saying that or her post in SM? I don't really follow russian skating, so I'm curious.

I don’t go to Tiktok so I guess you’ll know Tiktok better.

I also don’t follow Russian skating. However, the outburst were discussed a lot on social media. At one point, IIRC Adam (Rippon) made a negative comment about it and got hounded by her fans as the result.

 

[Karoltyna]

I don’t go to Tiktok so I guess you’ll know Tiktok better.

I also don’t follow Russian skating. However, the outburst were discussed a lot on social media. At one point, IIRC Adam (Rippon) made a negative comment about it and got hounded by her fans as the result.

I don't know tiktok, I'm too old for that and I'm deeply disinterested in russian skating, can be called antifan - but as much I dislike their technique and coaching methods, I dislike baseless gossiping and stupid hating more. So kindly show me where she said or wrote anything about being promissed winning.

 

[Magill]

I don't know tiktok, I'm too old for that and I'm deeply disinterested in russian skating, can be called antifan - but as much I dislike their technique and coaching methods, I dislike baseless gossiping and stupid hating more. So kindly show me where she said or wrote anything about being promissed winning.

I don't think there's a need to get emotional about it and it is off-topic anyway
As for TitkTok, I have no idea, I never was there in my life.
As for Sasha Trusova, I don't think anyone said here that she was "promised" winning. She said many times including in the press conference in Beijing right after the medal ceremony that she always follows a goal, and now her goal was to land 5 quads in the Olympics FS, and that she was sure she would win OGM if she did, and then she did land them but still did not win the gold and that's why she became so disappointed and emotional about it. She also said she did not want to cry in public but she was not allowed any privacy although she asked for it - to be allowed to get out to locker rooms or for cameramen to turn away from her, and yes, her attempts to hide away could be seen by anyone who watched.
You can see this press conf here if you speak Russian (reporters had translation in their earphones so unfortunately you do not hear it and YT subtitling tool does not really work well on this from my very limited understanding of Russian) but I will not embed it as she started crying mid-sentence at the press conf when saying that and was still very distressed. Still, her words were then all over the world's press so you can find it quoted in all sorts of media outlets, in many languages I guess.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Now, I do not recall her saying it was her coaches who told her she would win if she landed 5 quads but I am by no means an expert on Russian skaters and their interviews. What I recall is that the whole world saw Sasha literally screaming to Eteri during her outburst right between the Olympic FS and the flower ceremony "You knew it, you knew it all along, I hate you, I hate this sport". So people linked dots understanding that she had been led to believe that 5 quads=OGM by her coaches - or at least not warned by them that it was not a given - as a sort of motivational tool to keep her working towards this goal. Whether this is a right guess or not I have no idea, but she was quite young and she probably did get this idea from somewhere, was it her coaches, her family, watching how men's skating evolved, or just from counting points from the Scale of Values - I don't know.
Surely it had nothing to do with fans, and OP just takes it wrong.

 

[Karoltyna]

I don't think there's a need to get emotional about it and it is off-topic anyway
As for TitkTok, I have no idea, I never was there in my life.
As for Sasha Trusova, I don't think anyone said here that she was "promised" winning. She said many times including in the press conference in Beijing right after the medal ceremony that she always follows a goal, and now her goal was to land 5 quads in the Olympics FS, and that she was sure she would win OGM if she did, and then she did land them but still did not win the gold and that's why she became so disappointed and emotional about it. She also said she did not want to cry in public but she was not allowed any privacy although she asked for it - to be allowed to get out to locker rooms or for cameramen to turn away from her, and yes, her attempts to hide away could be seen by anyone who watched.
You can see this press conf here if you speak Russian (reporters had translation in their earphones so unfortunately you do not hear it and YT subtitling tool does not really work well on this from my very limited understanding of Russian) but I will not embed it as she started crying mid-sentence at the press conf when saying that and was still very distressed. Still, her words were then all over the world's press so you can find it quoted in all sorts of media outlets, in many languages I guess.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Now, I do not recall her saying it was her coaches who told her she would win if she landed 5 quads but I am by no means an expert on Russian skaters and their interviews. What I recall is that the whole world saw Sasha literally screaming to Eteri during her outburst right between the Olympic FS and the flower ceremony "You knew it, you knew it all along, I hate you, I hate this sport". So people linked dots understanding that she had been convinced 5 quads=OGM by her coaches as a sort of motivational tool to keep her working towards this goal. Whether this is a right guess or not I have no idea, but she was quite young and she probably did get this idea from somewhere, was it her coaches, her family, watching how men's skating evolved, or just from counting points from the Scale of Values - I don't know.
Surely it had nothing to do with fans, and OP just takes it wrong.

I guess this summs up the thread pretty well.

The girl says something in high emotions. I checked myself as I didn't get answer to my question. She didn't say a word about being promissed anything by anyone, if anything, she said she was convinced that adding more quads will let her finally win because she didn't win in 3 years. Period. She didn't specify that her coaches made her think that. It is possible, sure, but we don't know.

Some people twist her words for likes and attention and even more drama that we already got and to throw even more shade on her shady coached and fed.

The twisted version is circulating in FS community and sits well, especially considering politics, and people refer to it as true version, including here in thread on fans influencing skaters.

I, russian skating hater, go out of my way to defend a russian skater whom I don't even like.

And we are still in a place I consider that less toxic part of fandom and in a thread that shouldn't be discussing it. Sometimes linking dots and telling the world about your findings isn't the wisest thing to do - I can tell as the one who defends the dotlinkers who in the end had it wrong.

 

[Wynter]

I guess this summs up the thread pretty well.

The girl says something in high emotions. I checked myself as I didn't get answer to my question. She didn't say a word about being promissed anything by anyone, if anything, she said she was convinced that adding more quads will let her finally win because she didn't win in 3 years. Period. She didn't specify that her coaches made her think that. It is possible, sure, but we don't know.

Some people twist her words for likes and attention and even more drama that we already got and to throw even more shade on her shady coached and fed.

The twisted version is circulating in FS community and sits well, especially considering politics, and people refer to it as true version, including here in thread on fans influencing skaters.

I, russian skating hater, go out of my way to defend a russian skater whom I don't even like.

And we are still in a place I consider that less toxic part of fandom and in a thread that shouldn't be discussing it. Sometimes linking dots and telling the world about your findings isn't the wisest thing to do - I can tell as the one who defends the dotlinkers who in the end had it wrong.

Would you please calm down? I shared what I know about Alexandra situation to counter the opinion of her being a victim of fans expectations, not to throw dirts on her or her coaching team.

I consider fan role in a skater career to be an interesting topic so please stop derailing this topic to yet another Russian skating scandal. I’ve had enough of that.

 

[Magill]

I guess this summs up the thread pretty well.

The girl says something in high emotions. I checked myself as I didn't get answer to my question. She didn't say a word about being promissed anything by anyone, if anything, she said she was convinced that adding more quads will let her finally win because she didn't win in 3 years. Period. She didn't specify that her coaches made her think that. It is possible, sure, but we don't know.

Some people twist her words for likes and attention and even more drama that we already got and to throw even more shade on her shady coached and fed.

The twisted version is circulating in FS community and sits well, especially considering politics, and people refer to it as true version, including here in thread on fans influencing skaters.

I, russian skating hater, go out of my way to defend a russian skater whom I don't even like.

And we are still in a place I consider that less toxic part of fandom and in a thread that shouldn't be discussing it. Sometimes linking dots and telling the world about your findings isn't the wisest thing to do - I can tell as the one who defends the dotlinkers who in the end had it wrong.

But nobody said she was "promised" anything, it is just your (mis)interpretation, so now you are adding drama to what's been said when criticising others for allegedly doing it
She believed 5 quads=gold. To me when I hear she was "promised" the gold it implies some backroom deals by her coaches or fed with the gold-distributing powers. I don't think anyone ever implied it, at least here, in this context, I don't know about other platforms as I just don't go there much. She just believed it would be enough to win. Was proven wrong and got emotional. That's all. Nobody ever said anything else.
I don't understand why you claim you defend her, she was not accused of anything here. If you're defending anyone, it is her coaches.
Now, were they instrumental in Sasha believing 5 quads would surely give her this elusive Olympic gold? You're right, she never said it directly so we don't know for sure. But it seems most people think coaches are somewhat responsible for such strong beliefs in their students who are underage....
Now, end of off-topic, please.

 

[Wynter]

Anyway, to continue the point about the negative side of a passionate fanbase, especially in terms of toxic pressure and unrealistic expectations.

I would say… Perhaps a passionate fanbase is not the cause of the toxic pressure and unrealistic expectations. Instead, fans are one of skaters’ support system.

The most recent example that I can think of is the acceptance of Ilia’s new programs. There are lots of positive and negative feedbacks on the two programs. I can see that his fans are supportive of his choice, while others… Not so much. And yes, there are “wars” on X for the last several days because of it. In this situation, I sincerely think his fan base is the least source of toxic pressure and unrealistic expectations.

OTOH… If I am thinking of those two phrases independently, I got reminded of Rika Kihira. Hers didn’t came from fans, though.

 

[Karoltyna]

But nobody said she was "promised" anything, it is just your (mis)interpretation, so now you are adding drama to what's been said when criticising others for doing the same

The thing is this was implied here:

Didn't she say that her coaching team said she'll win gold if she landed 5 quads?

No, she didn't say it, yet it circulates and she gets backlash for it. This is the point of my comments. Right, further disussion doesn't make much sense.

 

[rabidline]

Wait, I just realized that I actually have another example.

In the off-season of 2024, me and my friend watched Stars on Ice Japan, held right after Worlds 2024. It was on one of the TBS broadcast channels, we have followed many Japanese ice shows throughout the years, we knew how to watch it. And well, there are some pretty great programs, so we agree to share it to other fans on some platforms, including another site.

One of those programs was the EX version of "A Whiter Shade of Pale" skated by Piper and Paul. We thought it was a great program, loved the opening spirals, and thought, more people should see this! So we shared, some fans responded positively on another site, and we never really thought much of anything after it.

Fast forward around 5 months after....



Not gonna lie, sometimes I smiled a bit at this. As a fan, I don't consider myself having any role in the skaters' careers. It's sports, it's competitions, and it's life. Like... I don't know, maybe it's also because of where I'm from, which is worlds removed from the skating circuit. I don't really entertain any thought about the skater acknowledging that my support played a role in their career, in any way.

But this one- and Piper said it too, "Just wanted to thank our fans on another site for this one" and clipped the fans comments under the post I posted on another site on it. So... there's like no doubt that somehow, me and my friend kinda helped bring the fans' voices to them, and helped Piper and Paul decide on a 4CC-winning, Worlds-medal winning FD.

It's kind of cool, and I think it serves as a reminder to me and my friend, that... as fans, we're here to have fun. We're here to share good skating stuff to other fans when we can do it (because we're busy with work most of the time, lol). When we shared it on another site, we weren't even trying to convince others that their program was good, because it already was! So we let the fans watch and respond and not add too much to it. That post didn't go viral at all, didn't shoot up to the another site top posts list. It "only" got 36 likes and 13 comments. It got purged when I got temporarily banned due to VPN issues. We didn't reach out personally to Piper and Paul through DMs or anything about it. And yet, it's more than enough.

 

[Magill]

The thing is this was implied here:



No, she didn't say it, yet it circulates and she gets backlash for it. This is the point of my comments. Right, further disussion doesn't make much sense.

No, she does get backlash but not because of this. She gets backlash from some people for having what some call a nervous breakdown, and others - a tantrum, involving crying aloud, yelling and refusing to participate in the flower ceremony (which she finally participated in), all in front of the cameras which she was trying to hide from, and which followed her adding to her distress, and many believe in fact should not have been there.
Still, nobody's bashing her for believing 5 quads would give her the gold. She was getting backlash for throwing a tantrum when the quads were not enough. And the role of her coaches in managing her expectations is repeatedly questioned. That's all.
Now I hope we are really done with this.

 

[Anna K.]

Wait, I just realized that I actually have another example.

In the off-season of 2024, me and my friend watched Stars on Ice Japan, held right after Worlds 2024. It was on one of the TBS broadcast channels, we have followed many Japanese ice shows throughout the years, we knew how to watch it. And well, there are some pretty great programs, so we agree to share it to other fans on some platforms, including another site.

One of those programs was the EX version of "A Whiter Shade of Pale" skated by Piper and Paul. We thought it was a great program, loved the opening spirals, and thought, more people should see this! So we shared, some fans responded positively on another site, and we never really thought much of anything after it.

Fast forward around 5 months after....



Not gonna lie, sometimes I smiled a bit at this. As a fan, I don't consider myself having any role in the skaters' careers. It's sports, it's competitions, and it's life. Like... I don't know, maybe it's also because of where I'm from which is worlds removed from the skating circuit. I don't really entertain any thought about the skater acknowledging that my support played a role in their career, in any way.

But this one- and Piper said it too, "Just wanted to thank our fans on another site for this one" and clipped the fans comments under the post I posted on another site on it. So... there's like no doubt that somehow, me and my friend kinda helped bring the fans' voices to them, and helped Piper and Paul decide on a 4CC-winning, Worlds-medal winning FD.

It's kind of cool, and I think it serves as a reminder to me and my friend, that... as fans, we're here to have fun. We're here to share good skating stuff to other fans when we can do it (because we're busy with work most of the time, lol). When we shared it on another site, we weren't even trying to convince others that their program was good, because it already was! So we let the fans watch and respond and not add too much to it. That post didn't go viral at all, didn't shoot up to the another site top posts list. It "only" got 36 likes and 13 comments. It got purged when I got temporarily banned due to VPN issues. We didn't reach out personally to Piper and Paul through DMs or anything about it. And yet, it's more than enough.

Under IJS, skaters are not directly rewarded for spectator-friendly programs with any point value. So, the positive feedback from fans is the only motivation to have such programs. Just saying

 

[Mathman]

Wait, I just realized that I actually have another example...

I began following figure skating many years before there was such a think as the internet. Once in a while I would drop a post card to a skater or choreographer.expressing appreciation for an exceptionally fine program or moving performence.

Every single time I did so the skater or choreography took the time to write back thanking me. They were unfailingly super gracious and cordial. It did a lot to hook me as a fan of the sport.