Those who have seen YuNa and Patrick live-question

[Tonichelle]

Let's not bring Ashley into this and tear her down... it's not her fault she's caught in the middle of this anymore than it's Yuna's or Patrick's that they got chosen as the hot topic button that began the pot stirring. Let's just enjoy the popcorn, eh?

 

[ahy]

Agreed, yuna doesn't have a big federation behind her to support her. What she did is to give out brilliant performances to built up her reputation. She built up her reputation by herself. Why can't we simply enjoy her skating rather than saying that she is overscored all the time?

 

[aftertherain]

1. Has Yuna Kim ever been overscored? Yes.
2. Has Patrick Chan ever been overscored? Yes.
3. Has every top ten-ish skater ever been overscored? Yes.
4. Does that include Ashley? Yes.
5. Am I talking about 2013 Nationals? Yes.
6. Do I think she still deserved to win? Yes.
7. Did Ashley have great(er) arms because of her "Black Swan" program? Yes.
8. Does she still have great arms? Yes.
9. Has there been inflation in every single event this season? Yes.
10. Moreso than past years? Yes.
11. Do ("higher") scores sometimes reflect one skater's performance vs. the performances of the field they are up against? Yes.
12. Are placements still correct? Yes.
13. Do I think this happened to Yuna in 2012 NRW Trophy, 2013 Worlds, and 2013 Golden Spin? Yes.
14. Was Yuna overscored in the 2010 Olympics? Yes.
15. Did she deserve her title? Yes.
16. Barring falls and stumbles, is Patrick Chan an elegant skater? Yes.
17. Does Patrick have solid basic skills? Yes.
18. Does he deserve to be a skater who has world record scores? Yes.
19. Does it say in the rules that PCS must reflect falls and stumbles? No.
20. Do people have a hard time grasping that fact? Yes.
21. Should PCS reflect falls and stumbles? Probably.
22. Was Yuna Kim super cute in the most recent Maxim White Gold coffee commercial? Yes.
23. Do I wish I had her hair + hair extensions in that commercial? Yes.
24. Am I excited about Daisuke Takahashi being in VOGUE Japan? Yes.
25. Are people overly critical towards skaters who are not Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, and Patrick Chan? Yes.
26. Do people like to ignore that and say that "their" skater is the only one who gets chewed out? Yes.
27. Are people overreacting? Yes.
28. Do I think Michelle Kwan has the most extreme fans in figure skating? Not at the present time, no.
29. Am I borrowing this method of listing questions from TSL? Yes.
30. Why? Because I'm enjoying this far more than I thought I would.

 

[David21]

Some thoughts on Asada, which left me a bit befuddled at WC 2011, but I will give her a pass given she seems to be physically fragile and fatigued that particular season (My impression in 2011: She skated girly... like REALLY girly! A shadow of her Vancouver self.) Kostner's speed come with a price of clumsiness in how she moves between from one element that seems rushed and rusty. It is in the detailing, the between elements, the long set up telegraphing her jumps frankly drives me nuts (you can visibly see her thinking, calculating, hoping for the best etc. She looks nervous, it is distracting.) Her jumps are powerful but the entry and the landing are not comparable with Yuna's apparent effortless, power, speed, precision and arguably flow out of it especially they are usually proceed or finish by some transitional movements with little set up time. I remember distinctively when they announced Kostner's Bronze at WC 2011, the entire row where I sat with (many N. Americans?) went 'huh?!' due to the mistake ridden performance in her short and that there's no 3/3s, no lutz in her FS. Where once again, she get the special 'European Royal with Cheese' treatment.

Oh my

 

[OS]

Oh my

Well you just have to be there. Kostner was 6th place in her short, she didn't have 3/3s, lutz and completely messed up her combination in her FS while Alena (only received e in her lutz) while everything else appears clean and gave out a great performance that is better received live. Alena did a great SP where she received no negative GOEs and was tied to the neck with Kostner who completely screwed up her 3F in her short and only cushioned by her PCS. She missed out the podium by less than a point. It was very very close!

 

[David21]

Well you just have to be there. Kostner was 6th place in her short, she didn't have 3/3s, lutz and completely messed up her combination in her FS while Alena (only received e in her lutz) while everything else appears clean and gave out a great performance that is better received live. Alena did a great SP where she received no negative GOEs and was tied to the neck with Kostner who completely screwed up her 3F in her short and only cushioned by her PCS. She missed out the podium by less than a point. It was very very close!

Yes, it was close. Kostner got two points more than Lenova in the SP and three more in the LP. Not sure what there is to complain about considering that Kostner is a better skater than Leonova but I guess to each their own.
I just thought it would have been nice if yourlengthy post would have stayed positive about all skaters since you had so many positive things to say about Chan and Kim and could have refrained from making wuz-robbed or wuz-gifted comments but I guess that wasn't meant to be.

 

[OS]

Yes, it was close. Kostner got two points more than Lenova in the SP and three more in the LP. Not sure what there is to complain about considering that Kostner is a better skater than Leonova but I guess to each their own.
I just thought it would have been nice if yourlengthy post would have stayed positive about all skaters since you had so many positive things to say about Chan and Kim and could have refrained from making wuz-robbed or wuz-gifted comments but I guess that wasn't meant to be.

I did some search, it state they were exactly tied at their short despite the massive 3F mistake.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

Looking at the protocals, I'd say Alena suffers from lack of reputation to have even received even a couple of 5s in her PCS when she did a great job on the day. Relatively, that judge gave Kostner practically all 8s while other judges awarded Kostner mostly 7s and some 8s. That one fairer judge could have made the difference in ranking.

I try to bear in mind with the other things you have mentioned, but since is a thread about over score, it is hard not to bring up my first hand experience on it. I could have discussed Miki Ando's controversial (imo) result extensively at that competition, but right now I am rather fond of her attempt at a comeback against the odds

 

[David21]

I did some search, it state they were exactly tied at their short despite the massive 3F mistake.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2011/wc2011_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

Oh, I worded that wrongly. I meant that Kostner was 2 points ahead in the SP and 3 points ahead in the FS in the PCS.
And despite the, as you call it, massive mistake on the flip, the difference in the TES between the two skaters was about only one point.

Looking at the protocals, I'd say Alena suffers from lack of reputation to have even received even a couple of 5s in her PCS when she did a great job on the day. Relatively, that judge gave Kostner practically all 8s while other judges awarded Kostner mostly 7s and some 8s. That one fairer judge could have made the difference in ranking.

Well, PCS are subjective anyway. I don't think it would have been necessarily "fairer" to give higher PCS to Leonova or lower ones to Kostner.

 

[OS]

If it helps, here is an overview of the entire arena from the audience stand for Miki, Yuna and Mao at the WC2011 for you to get a sense of the audience's perspective, the vibe, buzz without studio edits. Observe the speed and ice coverage which is often not easily understood from camera close ups. Play them side by side if it helps.

Miki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVMFzoeEPzc

Yuna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psxOL_a-9cU

Mao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUwmxVnFHdY

Please pay attention to program construct and ice coverage to understand my disgruntle with Miki's program construct. I don't care what the protocols says, but this is pure COP garbage. Other than the opening jumps, there's tons of time wasting in the first half consist of slow spins, slow spirals, little actual skating or apparent physical effort other than pretentious poseography otherwise known as rest for a bit before launch into series of jumping endurance exercise one after the other AFTER half way point. There's no cohesion, integration of elements, transition, intellectual realisation, creativity or objectivity throughout the program. What choreography? It is pure number crunching with the least amount of effort or emotional realisation for a jumper. I can not believe it won over a beautiful program like Homage... but then thankfully it did, otherwise we might not able to have the return of Kim going for seconds.

I never thought I'd say this.... but thank you Japan and Russia

 

[YesWay]

1. Has Yuna Kim ever been overscored? Yes.
2. Has Patrick Chan ever been overscored? Yes.
3. Has every top ten-ish skater ever been overscored? Yes.
4. Does that include Ashley? Yes.
5. Am I talking about 2013 Nationals? Yes.
6. Do I think she still deserved to win? Yes.
7. Did Ashley have great(er) arms because of her "Black Swan" program? Yes.
8. Does she still have great arms? Yes.
9. Has there been inflation in every single event this season? Yes.
10. Moreso than past years? Yes.
11. Do ("higher") scores sometimes reflect one skater's performance vs. the performances of the field they are up against? Yes.
12. Are placements still correct? Yes.
13. Do I think this happened to Yuna in 2012 NRW Trophy, 2013 Worlds, and 2013 Golden Spin? Yes.
14. Was Yuna overscored in the 2010 Olympics? Yes.
15. Did she deserve her title? Yes.
16. Barring falls and stumbles, is Patrick Chan an elegant skater? Yes.
17. Does Patrick have solid basic skills? Yes.
18. Does he deserve to be a skater who has world record scores? Yes.
19. Does it say in the rules that PCS must reflect falls and stumbles? No.
20. Do people have a hard time grasping that fact? Yes.
21. Should PCS reflect falls and stumbles? Probably.
22. Was Yuna Kim super cute in the most recent Maxim White Gold coffee commercial? Yes.
23. Do I wish I had her hair + hair extensions in that commercial? Yes.
24. Am I excited about Daisuke Takahashi being in VOGUE Japan? Yes.
25. Are people overly critical towards skaters who are not Yuna Kim, Mao Asada, and Patrick Chan? Yes.
26. Do people like to ignore that and say that "their" skater is the only one who gets chewed out? Yes.
27. Are people overreacting? Yes.
28. Do I think Michelle Kwan has the most extreme fans in figure skating? Not at the present time, no.
29. Am I borrowing this method of listing questions from TSL? Yes.
30. Why? Because I'm enjoying this far more than I thought I would.

Excellent :-D

 

[Coriana]

I've seen Yuna live once, and Patrick live many times. There is a huge difference between "live" and TV which is why I spend the money and put up with horrible food, uncomfortable seats, cold feet, and steep concrete steps without railings. (Yeah, old person) I do miss details - and watch a broadcast later to pick up, but there is no substitute for the intensity of excitement and the impact of live. Yuna was breathtaking. I was unprepared for how truly beautiful she and her programme were. As for Patrick, wWhen most skaters are performing, even the brilliant ones like Dai and Hanyu (both of whom I love) look small and fragile on a big surface. But when Patrick skates, one can't help wishing the rink were just a few feet bigger. His edges make him appear to "slip the surly bonds of earth"

 

[Mathman]

^ Excellent post!

...steep concrete steps without railings…

Amen!

"slip the surly bonds of earth"

I had to look it up. Great poem. Thank you.

 

[skateluvr]

Instead of Mathman saying Ven's post was a personal attack. I really asked a sincere question, but you fan-atics cannot grasp that. Your loss. And allowing that while snacking on popcorn Toni? You are a mod. So hypocritical.

It was a sincere question, but this whole board swarms with Yunatics-no wonder no one questions these scores. They make Chanatics look non-existent.

Seriously, the Yunatics on this board honestly truly scare Mao's fans. I notice they do no tango and my pms say-forget it-they will just immolate you. Think anything you want. The mods are even intimidated. I can see the demographics are all you are concerned about. Wonder which person from which country won the golden skates prize?

I realize you are a bunch of little kids, maybe college age oldest, but I won't bother answering any stupid haterz comment. I have no favorite, and I will not mention YuNa again. She is not the best skater to have lived. She is however far more classy than her fans.

You people are like killer bees. YuNa has no faults, she is perfect. That is all you want to hear. Dream on. She is a master IJS skater and without the 3x3 she'd lose to Mao more often. So that makes her a great jumper. Does the truth hurt?

It is just getting worse. I heard from the few who did see these guys and they made some distinction. Since Mathman allowed the first attack from ven with nary a slap on the wrist-close the thread. I am not learning anything from bots. And I have to say Mao's ubers must have left long ago. She was not even the subject of the thread, but I did say she too gets overscored too much in Japan.

It is about fairness, but the venomous don't see that at all. Whatever-Patrick was barely addressed-why? No one exists to these people except YuNa. She does not need "fans" like you. And that truly is the end of it.

I do not think Ashley was held up in 2013. Grace was in 9th place after her short. Have you forgotten how bad her SP was? Ashley is far more polished at this point and she deserved the win. It was not by a huge margin tho.

 

[skateluvr]

I haven't seen Yuna live but I have seen Patrick skate live more than once.

What I find doesn't translate via TV/video is the power of his edges. He's not doing a million crosscuts to achieve the same coverage over the ice. Another thing I noticed - his flying sit is huge!

Thanks-that was informative and what I was asking about, plus do they really earn those huge PCS scores. Simple, yes? Thankyou for addressing Chan. Many of us will never see them live. So it is a genuine question.

 

[skateluvr]

I've seen Yuna live once, and Patrick live many times. There is a huge difference between "live" and TV which is why I spend the money and put up with horrible food, uncomfortable seats, cold feet, and steep concrete steps without railings. (Yeah, old person) I do miss details - and watch a broadcast later to pick up, but there is no substitute for the intensity of excitement and the impact of live. Yuna was breathtaking. I was unprepared for how truly beautiful she and her programme were. As for Patrick, wWhen most skaters are performing, even the brilliant ones like Dai and Hanyu (both of whom I love) look small and fragile on a big surface. But when Patrick skates, one can't help wishing the rink were just a few feet bigger. His edges make him appear to "slip the surly bonds of earth"[/QUOT

Thankyou. Wow, it does look like he runs out of real estate many times. Is Olympic ice bigger than other championship rinks like Nationals, worlds? Is there a size requirement for competition ice at senior level?

 

[Tonichelle]

And allowing that while snacking on popcorn Toni? You are a mod. So hypocritical.

I haven't been a mod since spring when I took time off and I haven not resumed my duties as I really don't need the extra drama in my life that the job brings. I can't speak for the rest of the crew as to why they mod the way they do, but I do know there is a place to discuss that and here is not it.

 

[MiRé]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH

Stop whining. Get over it. You're wrong on just about every single thing you mention. You sound like typical Yunahaterbot. We get it. You're mad Yuna won. It's time for you to get over it. I mean you did agree she would be the winner no matter if she's overscored so what's with all this fuss?

p.s. You really question our age when you use words like "haterz"?

 

[skateluvr]

Soory then Toni. I thought you were. Thus I was shocked. I can see it would be a thankless job.