Top 20 skaters of all time per discipline

[pangtongfan]

Who would be your choices as the top 10 skaters of all time per discipline in order. Mine would be:

Pairs:

1. Gordeeva & Grinkov
2. Protoppopovs
3. Rodnina & Zaitsev
4. Shen & Zhao
5. Miskutienok & Dmitriev
6. Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze
7. Totmianina & Marinin
8. Valova & Vasiliev
9. Savchenko & Szolkowy
10. Wagner & Paul
11. Underhill & Martini
12. Voloszhar & Trankov (will jump to 6th on the list if they continue dominating next year skating at the level they did this season and win the OGM)
13. Rodnina & Ulanov
14. Dafoe & Bowden
15. Pang & Tong
16. Kilius & Baumler
17. Brunet & Brunet
18. Kazahkova & Dmitriev
19. Baess & Theirbach
20. Brasseur & Eisler


Men:

1. Alexei Yagudin
2. Dick Button
3. Evgeny Plushenko
4. Brian Boitano
5. John Curry
6. Kurt Browning
7. Robin Cousins
8. Elvis Stojko
9. Toller Cranston
10. Scott Hamilton
11. Gillis Grafstrom
12. Stephane Lambiel
13. Hayes Jenkins
14. Karl Schafer
15. Daisuke Takahashi
16. David Jenkins
17. Viktor Petrenko
18. Jan Hoffmann
19. Ondrej Nepela
20. Emmerich Danzer


Dance:

1. Klimova & Ponomarenko
2. Torvill & Dean
3. Gritschuk & Platov
4. Pakhomova & Gorshkov
5. Bestiamanova & Bukin
6. Virtue & Moir
7. Anissina & Peizerat
8. Krylova & Ovsiannikov
9. Usova & Zhulin
10. Davis & White
11. Moiseeva & Minenkov
12. Navka & Kostomarov
13. Regoczy & Sallay
14. Towler & Ford
15. Romanova & Roman
16. Denova & Stayviski
17. Wilson & McCall
18. Belbin & Agosto
19. Blumberg & Seibert
20. Linichuk & Karpanasov



Ladies:

1. Yu Na Kim
2. Katarina Witt
3. Janet Lynn
4. Michelle Kwan
5. Midori Ito
6. Irina Slutskaya
7. Dorothy Hamill
8. Sonja Henjie
9. Peggy Fleming
10. Kristi Yamaguchi
11. Herma Szabo
12. Carol Heiss
13. Tenley Albright
14. Madge Syers
15. Cecelia Colledge
16. Mao Asada
17. Shizuka Arakawa
18. Tara Lipinski
19. Trixi Schuba
20. Lu Chen

 

[FSGMT]

This is so subjective... We could discuss for ages every single placement: for example, putting K/P ahead of Torvill/Dean, or Cha outside of the top20...

 

[Mathman]

No Ulrich Salchow?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

No Patrick Chan? *is utterly shocked*

What are your criteria? Some of these skaters never won a Worlds or Olympics.

 

[zschultz1986]

Yeah, as someone who isn't Chan's biggest fan... or really, a fan.... he's gotta be somewhere 15-20, imo.

Also, here's my top 5 ladies:

1. Lynn
2. Yamaguchi
3. Ito
4. Kim
5. Henie/Bielmann

 

[Mathman]

What are your criteria? Some of these skaters never won a Worlds or Olympics.

That is always the most interesting question. What are the criteria? There is a difference between an "I won lots of medals" all-star and a "I gave exquisite performances" all-star. I am sure that pangtongfan would concede that Patrick Chan is the all-time "read the protocols" champion, but not so much the all-time "look at my on-ice performances" champion.

For me, I would give heavy weight to what the skaters accomplished after their days of amateur competitions were over. Sonia Henie brought figure skating to hollywood. Dick Button was Mr. Figure Skating for half a century. Kurt Browning and Kristi Yamaguchi were better as professional entertainers than as amateur competitors. Scott Hamilton was a better entrepreneur and impresario than a skater. And Michelle Kwan wins the lifetime achievement award in the category of overall Kwanliness.

 

[venlac]

Who would be your choices as the top 10 skaters of all time per discipline in order. Mine would be:
Ladies:

1. Yu Na Kim
2. Katarina Witt
3. Janet Lynn
4. Michelle Kwan
5. Midori Ito
6. Irina Slutskaya
7. Dorothy Hamill
8. Sonja Henjie
9. Peggy Fleming
10. Kristi Yamaguchi

I think kristi yamaguchi is better than Midori Ito, Irina Slutskaya..

 

[plushyfan]

Rodnina 3rd? V/M 6th, Yagudin, Klimova-Ponomarenko best of all time???? How do you compare for example Slutskaya and Sonja Hennie ?

 

[FSGMT]

Rodnina 3rd? V/M 6th, Yagudin, Klimova-Ponomarenko best of all time???? How do you compare for example Slutskaya and Sonja Hennie ?

Yes, putting Sonja Henie (3 Olympic titles, 10 world titles, best skater of the world for over a decade, the first female "domination" ever) behind Slutskaya (no Olympic title, 2 world titles, just "one" of Kwan's rivals, definitely not that kind of extraordinary skater that Henie was, for her time) is a bit

 

[venlac]

Rodnina 3rd? V/M 6th, Yagudin, Klimova-Ponomarenko best of all time???? How do you compare for example Slutskaya and Sonja Hennie ?

if yagudin is not the Best of all Time
Then, who do you think is the best of all time??

 

[Mathman]

I also think consideration should be given to the pioneers and innovators on whose shoulders subsequent generations of skaters stood.

Jackson Haines invented "fancy skating" -- the idea that skating is an art form, not just tracing geometrically precise circles.

Madge Syers invented the outrageous notion that skating is a sport for women, too.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

if yagudin is not the Best of all Time
Then, who do you think is the best men in history??

This is a tricky question. There are lots of criteria that could make one the "Best of all time".

Best overall skater: Yagudin
Best jumper: Plushenko
Most ambitious jumpers: Goebel/Reynolds/Fernandez
Best skater's skater: Lambiel/Buttle/Chan/Curry
Best skater in terms of interpretation/expression: Takahashi/Cranston/Boitano


I'm curious as to why people have ranked Lynn so high? Her technical ability was great, but she was poor at figures and never won a Worlds (silver and a bronze) or Olympics (bronze).

 

[Mathman]

I'm curious as to why people have ranked Lynn so high?

Her skating transported us to a better place. :yes:

 

[Olympia]

Janet Lynn's skating holds up as beautiful both technically and artistically in a way that other skaters' skating does not. As I've said before, when I want to watch amazing skating from the 1970s, I don't yearn to sit in front of a video of World and Olympic champion Trixi Schuba. Additionally, I think that many credit Lynn for bringing a higher level of integrated, interpretive skating to the sport. She's probably equivalent on the ladies' side to Toller Cranston, who also didn't win any World or Olympic golds. He definitely belongs on just about any list of skating greats even without those accomplishments.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Her skating transported us to a better place. :yes:

I think I know what you mean by this, but could you be more specific?

I agree that she was a lovely skater and popular, but as a competitor she wasn't much compared to the other ladies in history. She had a chance to win worlds in 1973 but two falls in her SP prevented that. She also came 7th in the FS at the Olympics. I assume when we're talking about the "best skaters" competitive ability/results is a huge criterion -- the top 3 in each discipline would have to be Olympic champions (and if not that, at least a multiple World Champion).

Like Cranston, she definitely belongs on the list for elevating her sport. But I would put her out of the top 3, for sure.

 

[Olympia]

That is always the most interesting question. What are the criteria? There is a difference between an "I won lots of medals" all-star and a "I gave exquisite performances" all-star. I am sure that pangtongfan would concede that Patrick Chan is the all-time "read the protocols" champion, but not so much the all-time "look at my on-ice performances" champion.

For me, I would give heavy weight to what the skaters accomplished after their days of amateur competitions were over. Sonia Henie brought figure skating to hollywood. Dick Button was Mr. Figure Skating for half a century. Kurt Browning and Kristi Yamaguchi were better as professional entertainers than as amateur competitors. Scott Hamilton was a better entrepreneur and impresario than a skater. And Michelle Kwan wins the lifetime achievement award in the category of overall Kwanliness.

I like that idea, Math, of considering what skaters did after their amateur careers. Dick Button also had a good criterion: that a great skater left skating better than it was when he/she came in. So despite the fact that Sonia Henie's skating looked old-fashioned by the 1970s, she advanced the sport in several ways, including doing more demanding jumps than ladies ever did. As a pro skater, she also made skating attractive to larger audiences, both with her films and with her live shows. Without Henie, one might argue that skating would just have been a niche sport like dressage, interesting mainly to the families of people who had the money to train for years. Similarly, Button also advanced the jumps, and then later he did a lot of impresario work as well as his commentating on TV. He increased audiences and educated them as well.

 

[babyalligator]

I feel like lynn would be more a sentimental favorite for certain people. I'm not sure if she really belongs in the top 10.

 

[pointyourtoe]

I feel like lynn would be more a sentimental favorite for certain people. I'm not sure if she really belongs in the top 10.

By sentimental favorite I think you mean people are basing it off of emotion rather than facts, right? But since skating is half sport, half art, it's a given that sentiment/emotion is very important when critiquing a skater's legacy. When people think of skating "artists" through the ages, Janet is one of the first names to come up.
I'll be honest, despite all of her titles, I can't watch a Sonia Henie video without rolling my eyes and then having my mind wander off thinking about her Nazi ties. On the other hand, I can enjoy watching Peggy Fleming or Janet Lynn because as simple as their routines are, they're extremely graceful. Their skating has aged very well through the years. Medals and accomplishments are one very valid way to measure a skater's historical greatness, but I think that their legacy of performances is just as important. Of course one could also argue that we're not giving enough credit to skaters whose strengths were in figures, but I think the point is that skaters like Janet paved the way for skating's current freeskate-centric system and made figures obsolete.

PS I don't mean to downplay Sonia Henie's achievements and influence on the sport. Objectively she's one of the top 5 if not #1. I just can't stand watching her skate.

 

[pharmtech1]

This is so hard to do , it comes down to personal taste and knowledge of skating and the progression of the sport . I have been watching old videos and am very surprised at some of the skaters from the late 70's to early 80,s . I think Denise Biellman would have dominated the sport if she would have stayed amateur , she was so spectacular with her jumps and was still improving when she left . Also I really wasn't a huge Robin Cousins fan at the time but when I look back he was one of the best complete skater that had it all ! Some of these lists are just personal favourites . Last comment would be to all the Chan haters , he is so good it is not even worth arguing !!!

 

[babyalligator]

By sentimental favorite I think you mean people are basing it off of emotion rather than facts, right? But since skating is half sport, half art, it's a given that sentiment/emotion is very important when critiquing a skater's legacy. When people think of skating "artists" through the ages, Janet is one of the first names to come up.

Clearly different parts of skating speak to us when judging the greatness of skater. Perhaps I am inclined to place more emphasis on the athletic aspects of skating than you are. These lists are after all, subjective for the most part. For myself, Lynn is enjoyable enough to watch. There is goodness to her skating, but it doesn't speak greatness to me. Unlike some others on this board, I do not find myself being entranced by it. I understand that she may have helped bring about the end of figures, but that is something I look at neutrally. I see it as neither a positive nor a negative.

Perhaps there should be separate lists for greatest athletic skaters and greatest artistic skaters?