Triple-Triple-Triple Combination: the Future of the Figure Skating?

[luckyguy]

Kevin Van Der Perren became 16,95 points for his incredible 3F/3T/3Lo combination and was second in the TES.

I think it is the way how to win the world championships in the future.

 

[Mathman]

I think the problem with the triple-triple-triple (instead of a quad) is that you run into Zayak problems.

Let's say you open with 3Lz+3T+3Lo. To maximize your points you want to do two triple Axels and two triple Lutzes. So that means you can't do any other triple-triple combos because you can't repeat the 3Lo or the 3T. So you have to do something like

3A
3A+2T
3Lz
3F+2Lo+2Lo
3S

Now you're stuck. All you can do is

2A
2A

This program is worth 57.3 base points (not counting second half bonuses.)

But if you have a quad, you can do, say,

4T
4T+2T
3A
3A+2T
3Lz+3T
3F
3Lo
3S

That's a 9 triple/quad program worth 60.6 points, easy does it, with no Zayak difficulties at all.

 

[indicatoto101]

4T
4T+2T
3A
3A+2T
3Lz+3T
3F
3Lo
3S
.

Can't you add 3.5 more points if you tack on the 3L at the end of the 3l + 3t, and replace the 3lo jumping pass with a 2a?

 

[Mathman]

^ Sure. In fact, there are lots of ways to squeeze some extra points out of the second program.

As I understood the question, it was about whether a skater could do a 3-3-3 instead of a quad, like Van der Perrin did. That's where it's hard to make maximum use of all your jumping passes.

 

[inskate]

Let's say you open with 3Lz+3T+3Lo. To maximize your points you want to do two triple Axels and two triple Lutzes. So that means you can't do any other triple-triple combos because you can't repeat the 3Lo or the 3T. So you have to do something like

3A
3A+2T
3Lz
3F+2Lo+2Lo
3S

Now you're stuck. All you can do is

2A
2A

This program is worth 57.3 base points (not counting second half bonuses.)

This is impossible. You can't do two 3-jump combos (3F-3T-3L & 3F-2L-2L). The best no-quad program would be something like:

3A-3T-3L
2A
3S-2T
3A
3Lz-2T
3F
3Lz
2A

Actually, the best would be with 2Ls instead of 2Ts, but most men prefer doing 2T for better GoEs.

But if you have a quad, you can do, say,

4T
4T+2T
3A
3A+2T
3Lz+3T
3F
3Lo
3S

That's a 9 triple/quad program worth 60.6 points, easy does it, with no Zayak difficulties at all.

Actually that's a 7 triple program (plus quads). Which could be made stronger by including a 3-jump combo...

But, personally, I would find a program like that lacking variety. Tacking only a 2T on 3A and the quad is a bit conservative, plus I find those combos rather unappealing, as they usually lack rhythm and flow. The skaters just muscle through the first jump, and the 2T after that is usually rather tiny and sloppy.
Lack of flow in the program is also why I find programs with too much quads less appealing, especially if they are frontloaded.

Something like that:

3A-3T-3L
4T
3S-2L
3A
3Lz-2T
3F
3Lz
2A

Would be a really cool jump layout, though!

 

[Mathman]

But, personally, I would find a program like that lacking variety. Tacking only a 2T on 3A and the quad is a bit conservative, plus I find those combos rather unappealing, as they usually lack rhythm and flow. The skaters just muscle through the first jump, and the 2T after that is usually rather tiny and sloppy.

Lack of flow in the program is also why I find programs with too much quads less appealing, especially if they are frontloaded.

That was kind of my point. If you have a quad, the CoP allows you to do a blah nothing program and still rack up the points.

If you don't have a quad, you have to scramble to find ways to make maximum use of your jumping passes. (Although Jeff Buttle, as well as Van der Perren just proved me wrong. )

 

[Kinga]

I think the problem with the triple-triple-triple (instead of a quad) is that you run into Zayak problems.

Let's say you open with 3Lz+3T+3Lo. To maximize your points you want to do two triple Axels and two triple Lutzes. So that means you can't do any other triple-triple combos because you can't repeat the 3Lo or the 3T.

That is why the rules of the FS should be a bit loosen a bit, in order enable new varieties in programmes. The rules are too stiff now and limit skaters 'fanstasy'. Basically we watch the same combinations all over again.