TT choreographed both MK's LP and a new SP

[Doggygirl]

OT, sorry, but what quad is sasha practicing? Sal or toe? Just curious.

Axel.

How 'bout THAT for a rumor??

DG

 

[CDMM1991]

Hahaha you're bad DG. I would guess salchow, does anyone know?

 

[mzheng]

OT, sorry, but what quad is sasha practicing? Sal or toe? Just curious.

She had tried 4Sal before right? I would guess, if she does 'intend' to practice, then it would be a Sal......I would believe she has intention or prepare to practice the quad this season (the very trimmed down body, 'can't be any skiinier'. practice tons of single and doubls with camara on side to analysis the technique. ). But not to the extend of 75% landing rate already, or put into the program already. JIMO.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think even if Sasha lands a quad sal with a shaky edge landing, it will still go over big. I would prefer her to work on solid landings this concept of 'attempting' in figure skating is difficult to swallow for me.

Let's go for a3Tx3T for both Sasha and Michelle at Campbells. You know Jenny and Kimmie will have them. It's CoP not 6.0.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

ITA!! Practice reports are just that - practice reports. Do I believe MK is hard at work? Yes. That just makes logical sense if she has hopes for an Oly medal - especially if she hopes for gold. Do I believe she's practices some 3/3's? Yes. This is quite believable since she was A) practicing them last year (Dick Button even commented, so I assume he saw this on practice ice at nationals) and B) one or two 3/3's would increase her chances for a polium finish or Oly Gold. Which 3/3's? Dunno, and really don't care. Is the program layout that was reported accurate? Don't know - and it really doesn't matter because that's likely to change anyway before Skate America.

Do I think Sasha is practicing a quad? I hope not as I can't imagine her taking it to the competitive ice this season. Just IMO, but I would rather see her get her 3's stable, invent a few new moves, get some interesting choreo happening, and not waste time on a high risk move I don't think she needs at all. (I will EAT those words if she successfully completes quads in comp this year!!)

I do hope those folks who actually get to see practices on occassion will continue to report what they believe they saw. The rest of us can draw our own conclusions.

DG

ITA with this. Nothing to add...

Let's go for a3Tx3T for both Sasha and Michelle at Campbells. You know Jenny and Kimmie will have them. It's CoP not 6.0.

I think this is the route that should be taken, too.

About Sasha and that quad- I don't know what to think. Although normally she would talk about doing it if she did, I understand if she is actually doing it and keeping her game plan under wraps (a smarter move by her). At the same time, I believe this less and less as time goes on. Now, she doesn't want to injure herself in this point in time, does she? I'm all for risk-taking but not to the point that you injure yourself (and that is why it's important to progress slowly instead of rapidly IMO). A 4 is definitely a high-risk move that probably (for Cohen anyway) carries more risk than benefit. If she does go for it in a competition and falls on it, can she get right back up and sell the program? I think we understand that ALL hopes aren't over if you land on your butt. It's only the case if you THINK that way. After all, everybody else can fall, too- the ice is slippery you know.

 

[cianni]

Red Dog

I agree however my point was unless you watch the skaters everyday you dont really know what their doing and it will change at least a little. I have no idea what Michelle is doing but I do hope she comes on with that fire in her belly. I also dont know what she has been doing behind the scenes in prep for the Olys for the last few yrs. I believe she has been moving in that direction even though she didnt commit. My other point about 3/3s was because the skaters last yr. didnt have them down pat and those who did didnt win either. The NJS gives lots of leway to flawed skating as last yr. showed. Sasha doesnt have to worry if she jumps at all it seems with her its spin you win. Irina can Bieman her way to Gold. Thats why Im not sure what a Gold Medal program will look like and Im not impressed with the mistake ridden program being rewarded because one can spin. I will just wait and see. Nothing against either of these skaters but for me a mistake is a mistake and shouldnt be rewarded or a repeated move whatever it would be makes that a refrig. break program for me. I think we will see clones on the ice with this NJS. Well time will tell and I will continue to watch what they do here atUofD.l

 

[euterpe]

I do think the 3x3s are important for Europe. It seems to me the Europeans enjoy the technical at its highest levels and accept adequate presentation, although they do like a showman a la Evgeni., and the competition will be held in the middle of Europe in the Italian Alps. It is a Sport first! The Asti Spumanti will be flowing.

Joe

The last two Worlds were in Europe, and Sasha won silver without ever landing a single 3/3. What does a competition being in Europe have to do with the type of jumps landed? Does that mean when Worlds is in Canada this year the expectations will be lower?

The audience does not determine who wins a medal, the JUDGES do (or so the ISU tells us......)

 

[R.D.]

The last two Worlds were in Europe, and Sasha won silver without ever landing a single 3/3. What does a competition being in Europe have to do with the type of jumps landed? Does that mean when Worlds is in Canada this year the expectations will be lower?

I don't think it matters where the competition is. What DOES matter is what the competition brings out. If it's a barrage(sp?) of 3-3's and quads and complicated moves, then you are doomed if you don't have those. Or it could be a "splat-fest" and the person who makes the least mistakes wins, without having to do a 3-3 or even have 6 or 7 triple jumps. Nevertheless, the competitors should come to a competition with the mindset that it will be like the former and not the latter.

The audience does not determine who wins a medal, the JUDGES do (or so the ISU tells us......)

Eeeeeexactly. And I think this point is even more important when we factor in musical choices, certain moves, etc. In the end, it doesn't matter one bit what the audience thinks. It just matters what the judges think, since it's a judged event. And apparently at times there appear to be differences in opinion between the two parties.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The last two Worlds were in Europe, and Sasha won silver without ever landing a single 3/3. What does a competition being in Europe have to do with the type of jumps landed? Does that mean when Worlds is in Canada this year the expectations will be lower?

The audience does not determine who wins a medal, the JUDGES do (or so the ISU tells us......)

Just my opinion that I find the audiences different wherever I go. I am sure Canada will be just fine.

Another oplinion of mine: the roar of the audience influences the judges subliminally(sp).

 

[Linny]

The Roar

Methinks the judges are so intent that they don't even hear the roar.
Linny

 

[chuckm]

Won't the gasps from the crowd when a skater makes a mistake also make the judges more aware of boo-boos?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's just my theory. It's not written in stone. Oh, I think the boo boos will be on the judges minds too when the crowd gasps. I think their eyes will be watching closely and intent, but their ears will be playing games with them. JMO.

The bottom line is the 9 judges will not all have the same scores and so something is influencing them in the perfect world of judging. BTW, I hope they don't have the same scores or close to them by region.

Joe

 

[cianni]

Judges

Oh Bad Bad me. I think the only thing the judges will be thinking about is how can they manipulate the points to give that medal to the one they want to win if she doesnt deliver a knockout program. Sorry I have NO thrust in the NJS nor the judges. I do think the Media will be on them like flys on you know what and if its another Euros result they better run for the hills. Im not ruling that out.

 

[euterpe]

It's all in the selection, didntja know? If all the judges' votes that count come from Eastern Europe, the outcome is assured regardless of how the skaters perform. Could it be another Euros 2005? Yes, it could.

 

[Doggygirl]

On Euros 2005

Since it came up....

Irina had a substantial lead after the SP, and I've not heard that one disputed.

Poykio would have beaten Irina in the FS had she not singled her Axel. (but not by enough to affect the outcome). I still think it's too bad Poykio made that mistake - it would have been a good boost for her I think - even with Irina far from "her best."

Irina's closest competitors - the Japanese contingent, MK, Sasha, Shiz, Fumie, etc. don't compete in Euros. The door was left open - but the people with the higher levels of difficulty and presentation weren't there to walk through it.

Did Irina get some PCS benefit based on reputation? Probably. IMO, so did other well known skaters who had less than stellar performances last season. I hate that part of the sport, but that part seems to be inevitable.

So what SHOULD the outcome have been?

I don't really have a big interest in re-hashing 2005 Euros, but the now multiple references to "I hope it's not another Euros 2005" seems to cry for that.

DG

Edited to correct a REALLY stupid typo that changed the meaning (in 3 letters) of an entire sentence. GEEZ!!hwell:

 

[R.D.]

Seems like IS deserved the win. She DID have a good sp but unfortunately even with a lackluster FS no one was able to catch her up.

Maybe, just maybe some mean "Euros 2005" to indicate that a skate like Irina's wins the competition. But it's most likely the other reason. JMO.

 

[R.D.]

So what SHOULD the outcome have been?

I don't really have a big interest in re-hashing 2005 Euros, but the now multiple references to "I hope it's not another Euros 2005" seems to cry for that.

This is the main problem I have with judged events. Sometimes you have a clear winner (take Worlds 2005 ladies comp for example) but often times you don't. And here's where it can go either way. Someone will get the short end of the stick every time. It never fails. And not to mention it gets rehashed even years after the fact. (Doubt me? Don't you still see Nagano and SLC debate threads?) But hey, it's part of what skating is.

 

[tdnuva]

It's all in the selection, didntja know? If all the judges' votes that count come from Eastern Europe, the outcome is assured regardless of how the skaters perform. Could it be another Euros 2005? Yes, it could.

I am soooo tired of this accusing the Eastern Europe block judging. Do you think other judges are NOT biased?? There were alliances in all hemispheres in ice skating history. Heck, I even read fans who encouraged their own (US!!!) judges to favor the "own" skaters. Either we want to get rid of national bias or you want to enforce it. But enforce it on the western side and damn it on the eastern is bullshit.

(And mind - I am not and was not part of Eastern Europe)

 

[R.D.]

I am soooo tired of this accusing the Eastern Europe block judging. Do you think other judges are NOT biased?? There were alliances in all hemispheres in ice skating history. Heck, I even read fans who encouraged their own (US!!!) judges to favor the "own" skaters. Either we want to get rid of national bias or you want to enforce it. But enforce it on the western side and damn it on the eastern is ********.

(And mind - I am not and was not part of Eastern Europe)

This is a great point as well. I believe that when you have a judged event like this, bias is something you're NEVER going to get rid of. Forget the fact you have different nations being represented. It's just that way because people are solely in charge here of determining the outcome. The only way to eliminate bias would be to get rid of the judges and make it so that somehow the skaters hold all of fate in their hands (like a team sport/individual sport). JMO, of course.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I am soooo tired of this accusing the Eastern Europe block judging. Do you think other judges are NOT biased?? There were alliances in all hemispheres in ice skating history. Heck, I even read fans who encouraged their own (US!!!) judges to favor the "own" skaters. Either we want to get rid of national bias or you want to enforce it. But enforce it on the western side and damn it on the eastern is bullshit.

(And mind - I am not and was not part of Eastern Europe)

1. All judges are biased, at least 95% imo. We expect this.

2, There is in Russia today several independent States which have judges of Russian origin. The muslims in those countries do not skate. How do you think they will score? There is in the US, a number of Russian immigrants and if they were judges, for whom do you think they would score high. Just ask the Russian immigrant fans whom they hope to win. I'm not against this. I just note it down for my own reference.

There is a big difference between being patriotic and being 'State Must Win' oriented.

The Cold War is over but the remnants are still there. Eventually, all those skaters and coaches, and judges from the old Soviet Union will be gone, and more interst in the 'sport' rather than the 'win' will be in play. Until then, check out the results of which judges from which countries are voting for whom. Maybe it's going to change. We'll see.

3. Alliances are part of Collusion. We saw what happened in SLC. A still unresolved matter. Deals were being made and the skaters get screwed. It is hoped that such tactics will never happen again. It'll kill the Sport.

Check it out fully, this year. Look at Tennis, even the commentators don't go bananas about country of origin. It is mentioned but they still go for the best man to win - not his nationality.

Joe