Tuktamysheva ready to make an impact

[janetfan]

Yukari Nakano.

Thanks mm
Kind of sad Yukari never made it to the Olympics. Fumie got to go twice and Miki has been twice and Yukari might have done better than Miki both times. In '06 for sure and she beat Miki at Natls this year.

 

[breeze]

I saw her in rostel gala this year doing her Lp and she was really impressive despite the mistakes, i didnt believe she was only twelve, does she remind anyone of Irina?in her crossovers..I thought she needed work in her spirals and spins but I like this one very much http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQPQ9G2BPDc at 3.37 where she catches her foot but i dont know the name of it
Thanx for the article, it was great!

Thanks for the link, seniorita, I enjoyed watching it. She is definitely a talent and I'm impressed with her speed. I didn't really follow juniors but this coming season I think I'll watch her and other Russian ladies at least. I'm not sure about Irina, but she does remind me of Johnny Weir for some reason. Maybe because both of them look sensitive, delicate, and yet charismatic in their own ways? I'm not sure.

I don't know the name of the spin position at 3:37, but if I had to guess I would go with "front-catch foot-upright spin" :think: Anybody with an answer? I think Mao and Carolina also had this in their programs. I like how smoothly Tuktamysheva goes into donut spin like Yukari and Yuna does, but for this particular position (the upright one) I prefer Mao's.

Anyways, it will be interesting to watch this girl grows with the strong basic technique and mature mindset. Hope she gets far.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I love that you apologized to "your fans everywhere."

And I apologize for my domineering use of capitalization.

 

[Meli_Huber]

Hey, come back to the topic ... and this is about Liza ... I thought.

 

[janetfan]

I love that you apologized to "your fans everywhere."

And I apologize for my domineering use of capitalization.

I like capitalization - much easier to read

 

[seniorita]

what i admired about Mao was not the 3axels she landed in Olys, although it was a jump that ruined half her season cause she failed at it and then failed at all program along, but how she bounced back from disastrous beginning of season to get the silver in Olys and be world champion, I really enjoyed Worlds for this reason, if only to see her happy face. I believe she has a lot of strength inside her heart and she must worked terribly a lot after Rostel.

Back to Elisaveta, you shoud see her MJ program Ex she has done that I cannot find right now..

 

[Meli_Huber]

That are her 2 programms for this season from the summer camps. Don´t forget it was summer, and then everybody can see, Liza is really taller than last season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gUcN7YCSJg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3q4wARd_hU&feature=related

I think, that for a 13! year old girl, she is really good. To be fair, not only her jumps improved a lot, also her pirourettes and skating becomes much better over the last 2 years. And of course, in this age everyone have things which they must improve in the next years. :thumbsup:

 

[janetfan]

Kimmie hasn't landed a 3Axel at an ISU competition. Nakano has only landed a few that were ratified.

Therefore, they didn't "master" the jump.

When I watch this I think of a lady who mastered the 3A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2H6PfFr59M

Being able to do something, anything, and just getting by is not the same as excelling at something.

Landing twenty 3A's and missing twenty 3A's shows a skater has tried alot of 3A's.

To say a skater has mastered the 3A I would also think the quality of the jump must be considered.
I don't believe the quality of Mao's 3A's are in the same league with Midori's.

Maybe it depends on how we define "master." :think:

McDonald's has made billions of hamburgers. I don't think they have made a great one yet.

 

[miki88]

Nobody's jumps are in the same league as Midori's if you're talking about height and distance. However, Mao also competed during a period where calls were far more strict than they were in the past. And yes, I agree we should get back to the main topic of this thread and not make this into another 3A debate which has already been discussed ad nauseum.

 

[janetfan]

Nobody's jumps are in the same league as Midori's if you're talking about height and distance. However, Mao also competed during a period where calls were far more strict than they were in the past. And yes, I agree we should get back to the main topic of this thread and not make this into another 3A debate which has already been discussed ad nauseum.

I wonder about the topic - a 13 year old making a big impact in the skating world. This is the theme of many GS articles but to be honest - no, most of these skaters will not make a big impact on the skating world this season.
Fans of junior skating will take note but the big picture won't be changed much. Maybe in a few years.

There is still some growing/maturing for this talented young girl to do - and with Mishin there can be questions about the packaging. Only time will tell.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

what i admired about Mao was not the 3axels she landed in Olys, although it was a jump that ruined half her season cause she failed at it and then failed at all program along, but how she bounced back from disastrous beginning of season to get the silver in Olys and be world champion, I really enjoyed Worlds for this reason, if only to see her happy face. I believe she has a lot of strength inside her heart and she must worked terribly a lot after Rostel.

Back to Elisaveta, you shoud see her MJ program Ex she has done that I cannot find right now..

I'd like to echo this statement. Her SP at the Olympics was just wonderful for that reason.

 

[seniorita]

Mishin and packaging stuff is nonsense and it is obviously due to plushenko, which is not Mishin's fault but what Plushenko takes into his style, mishin's job is among the best to give them technical correction and skating basics, if you read the article she has ballet choreographers, skating choreographers, mishin's team has people from Majinski theater etc... wilson and nichol is not the alfa and omega of this fs world. Check Artur's program Narcissus of last year..

 

[ks777]

can't wait to see her!!

 

[janetfan]

Mishin and packaging stuff is nonsense and it is obviously due to plushenko, which is not Mishin's fault but what Plushenko takes into his style, mishin's job is among the best to give them technical correction and skating basics, if you read the article she has ballet choreographers, skating choreographers, mishin's team has people from Majinski theater etc... wilson and nichol is not the alfa and omega of this fs world. Check Artur's program Narcissus of last year..

Nonsense you say? First, how many Ladies has Mishin trained let alone taken to the top?
And after all these years I still find this deeply disturbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LcLYQKpHy4

Is it any wonder that this skater left Mishin?

 

[seniorita]

In my opinion.. This

Nonsense you say? First, how many Ladies has Mishin trained let alone taken to the top?

and

and with Mishin there can be questions about the packaging.

are two different things jntfan. The one does not back up the other. The packaging you said (and that I was replying to) and if he had a star lady is too different things. He had trained Sokolova btw, is she concidered top?

Mishin is a technical coach, he takes yet children or teenagers and make them skaters, teaching them their skating skills, jump techniques etc...He is not Morozov or -fill the gap- who takes the skaters already a name and makes them stars, one is the work of Morozov another of Mishin,equal important probably. His published work about biomechanics in jumps has been picked up from almost all top coaches and universities who now use it for themselves, and in his summer camp go many top skaters as well. He never had a baby girl and raised it recently, apart from Katarina Gerbolt as far as I know..So yes he didnt have a top lady to coach..or maybe he didnt have the matterial to make it top, so far he didnt want to train ladies...And how many top single ladies there were the last 20 years i Russia?? So what does this say as his credibility as coach? What this has do with packaging Elisaveta, Elisaveta has a choreographer, off ice coach, ballet coach etc...

You think Tarasova teached Yagudin his great techinique? No..he made him better in presentation and made better conditions of training for him with no rival destruction. Have you concidered what would happen to Yagudin if Kulik had not retired then? One thing I laughed recently, there was a show in Korea this year and in the beginning Plushenko and Yagudin skated together and jumped side by side jumps, it was so striking their identical set up, timing and jump itself, they didnt miss a beat.

with your kind of thinking, what was Orser as a coach before he took Yuna?Who she was already a medalist by then...

 

[janetfan]

In my opinion.. This
andare two different things jntfan. The one does not back up the other. The packaging you said (and that I was replying to) and if he had a star lady is too different things. He had trained Sokolova btw, is she concidered top?

Mishin is a technical coach, he takes yet children or teenagers and make them skaters, teaching them their skating skills, jump techniques etc...He is not Morozov or -fill the gap- who takes the skaters already a name and makes them stars, one is the work of Morozov another of Mishin,equal important probably. His published work about biomechanics in jumps has been picked up from almost all top coaches and universities who now use it for themselves, and in his summer camp go many top skaters as well. He never had a baby girl and raised it recently, apart from Katarina Gerbolt as far as I know..So yes he didnt have a top lady to coach..or maybe he didnt have the matterial to make it top, so far he didnt want to train ladies...And how many top single ladies there were the last 20 years i Russia?? So what does this say as his credibility as coach? What this has do with packaging Elisaveta, Elisaveta has a choreographer, off ice coach, ballet coach etc...

with your kind of thinking, what was Orser as a coach before he took Yuna?Who she was already a medalist by then...

Whoa, easy there. No need to get yourself into an uproar.
A couple of points - spins are much more important in 2010 CoP than they were in the 90's.
Liza will not get by spinning like Urmanov or Plushy. Too many Ladies are good spinners these days.

TR is also a factor. Look at Chan and his use of TR and how it helps boost his score. Liza will need state of the art choreo including TR and more modern CoP steps to become a factor in today's skating world.

The 90's and 6.0 have been over for a while. It is a CoP world. People wonder why Yuna outscored Mao by such a large margin in Vancouver. Yuna had a program that was always going to score more points than Mao under the rules. Wilson put Yuna in a much better position than Tat did Mao. And Tat may still be the best choreographer in Russia. (Sorry, not a fan of Morozov).

You may not like David Wilson or Lori Nichol - but the judges do and that is what counts in international competitions.

Just saying Liza needs to show she can win in juniors, skate under pressure and be packaged as well as the top Asian and N. American skaters before I can hail her as the next Olympic champion.

A "practice 3A" is what it is. It is similar to Patrick Chan's practice quad. It doesn't count until we see it in competition.

 

[Olympia]

In my opinion.. This
andare two different things jntfan. The one does not back up the other. The packaging you said (and that I was replying to) and if he had a star lady is too different things. He had trained Sokolova btw, is she concidered top?

Mishin is a technical coach, he takes yet children or teenagers and make them skaters, teaching them their skating skills, jump techniques etc...He is not Morozov or -fill the gap- who takes the skaters already a name and makes them stars, one is the work of Morozov another of Mishin,equal important probably. His published work about biomechanics in jumps has been picked up from almost all top coaches and universities who now use it for themselves, and in his summer camp go many top skaters as well. He never had a baby girl and raised it recently, apart from Katarina Gerbolt as far as I know..So yes he didnt have a top lady to coach..or maybe he didnt have the matterial to make it top, so far he didnt want to train ladies...And how many top single ladies there were the last 20 years i Russia?? So what does this say as his credibility as coach? What this has do with packaging Elisaveta, Elisaveta has a choreographer, off ice coach, ballet coach etc...

You think Tarasova teached Yagudin his great techinique? No..he made him better in presentation and made better conditions of training for him with no rival destruction. Have you concidered what would happen to Yagudin if Kulik had not retired then? One thing I laughed recently, there was a show in Korea this year and in the beginning Plushenko and Yagudin skated together and jumped side by side jumps, it was so striking their identical set up, timing and jump itself, they didnt miss a beat.

with your kind of thinking, what was Orser as a coach before he took Yuna?Who she was already a medalist by then...

Seniorita, I love that anecdote about Yagudin's and Plushy's jumps looking so alike. What a tribute to Mishin's work! I'm inclined to agree with you about Mishin. It's plain that he's one of the world's supreme jump teachers. And to teach someone correct jumping means to give him or her the grounding needed for great artistry. After all these years, people still adore Kulik's jumps (me included).

So far we've seen that the majority of his elite skaters have been male. But what's to stop him from branching out? After all, didn't Tarasova start out as an ice dance coach primarily? And now she's coached both men's and ladies' OGMs--Kulik, Yagudin, and Shizuka. (Not from scratch, of course, but still.) You say there are also ballet coaches and whatnot for this girl, so I'm sure artistry will be brought into the mix. The prospects sound good!

 

[seniorita]

i didnt get into an uproar Plushy or Urmanov were not good at spins because in their growning up time even judges had forgotten what is spins in the program, and then it was impossible to learn right when CoP entered , he doesnt get down or cant be flexible there but if you look the feet they are fast and well centered and add speed while changing edges, this is good technique. You can also see Arthur's spins, which are really good, so t is not like Mishin doesnt know how to teach them. And he teached all his students a very good camel and donut spin.
I never said i dont like Wilson or Nicol, I just said they are not the only ones as choreographers. Of course Nicol is on the top, as she has winning programs and she helped with the transitions rules of CoP herself, but Mishin helped there with the jumps rules so ..Btw Plushy packaging and artistry began after 2006 Olympics, then the caramel started if you remember...

 

[Lucky Star]

Liza is 13 y.o. and her package is really really good for that age. And she has really nice programs, especially her FS, it's perfect for her. I don't think she has problems with choreo, presentation, etc. Of course she is not like Mao or Yu-Na now, but she is just a young girl who will make her JGP debut this season. Remember Yu-Na at 13, I don't think she was better than Liza is now

 

[janetfan]

Liza is 13 y.o. and her package is really really good for that age. And she has really nice programs, especially her FS, it's perfect for her. I don't think she has problems with choreo, presentation, etc. Of course she is not like Mao or Yu-Na now, but she is just a young girl who will make her JGP debut this season. Remember Yu-Na at 13, I don't think she was better than Liza is now

I agree but your last sentece - not sure if it is really a big factor. The comparison is very valid - but what matters is how will Liza skate when she is 17 and on Olympic Ice in Sochi. We saw how Yuna handled Olympic pressure and Liza wil have to do the same thing. That's if she even makes it to the Olympics. :think:

I think Liza is a great prospect but it would also be nice if she accomplishes things in juniors before she is hailed as the next big thing. For that matter who is to say a few of the of other new Russian wondergirls won't be better at age 17?

My earlier point to seniorita - traditionally Russian Ladies have rarely been packaged as well as their competitors. It partially explains why they have not done as well as their couterparts in Pairs, Dance and Men's singles.