US Worlds and Four Continents Teams?

[WeakAnkles]

The whole situation is going to be a public relations disaster with the general public, who will simply view it as yet ANOTHER instance of how corrupt the entire world of figure skating is. It makes you wonder who is actually in charge of PR for the USFSA. My guess is The Three Stooges.

 

[Mrs. P]

The whole situation is going to be a public relations disaster with the general public, who will simply view it as yet ANOTHER instance of how corrupt the entire world of figure skating is. It makes you wonder who is actually in charge of PR for the USFSA. My guess is The Three Stooges.

Are you still talking about Mirai, specifically or about Max/Denney & Coughlin getting Worlds? Or the situation in general?

 

[deedee1]

As for US selection for the Games, I have nothing to say if the federation has chosen based on their criteria. However, I do have a say on this one:

2014 U.S. World Ladies Figure Skating Team
Alternate No. 1 - Mirai Nagasu

2014 U.S. World Men’s Figure Skating Team
Max Aaron


2014 U.S. World Pairs Figure Skating Team
Caydee Denney and John Coughlin

If the US fed extends support and some love to their skaters who missed out the Oly team by only one placement, why can't they do the same to Mirai by sending her to the Worlds?
I amd so heartbroken for her. I do feel the same way for Takahiko and Nobu not being selected to the Worlds by JSF.

My hugs to (((Mirai)))

 

[Srin Odessa]

Do they have any excuses that they dont send Mirai to Worlds since she is the bronze medalist?

Gracie is a rising star and the national champion. Polina is young/inexperienced but has shown strong technical ability and needs the points to help her world ranking. Ashley is their highest performing skater at the international level.

The best argument would be made over Mirai losing a worlds slot to Ashley and especially Polina. Another argument could be made over sending bronze medal mens and pair skaters to worlds over the silver medalist. Then again, only two slots are open for those events and the US has to rotate their top skaters, similar to Japan had to split their top two men in 2006. However, if they think Ashley has a better chance of performing at worlds and that Polina is a better investment for the future, then Mirai is out of luck.

It's possible that Mirai can pull a Akiko and reinvent herself but time and odds aren't in her favor. Ageism is pretty common in sports since sports teams want to develop their players when they are young. Association football teams even do MRIs to make sure that hot prospects are under 17 years of age.

 

[Layfan]

The whole situation is going to be a public relations disaster with the general public, who will simply view it as yet ANOTHER instance of how corrupt the entire world of figure skating is. It makes you wonder who is actually in charge of PR for the USFSA. My guess is The Three Stooges.

Eh, if you went out and spoke to the first 10 people you saw in the street, I doubt you could find more than 1 who could tell you which ladies USA chose for the Olympic team yesterday, much less anyone who could muster any outrage over the bronze medalist getting bumped. Even though she's been the dominant lady, I doubt the majority of Americans know who Ashley is _ or Mirai. People who are half-way interested will start to tune in as the Olympics approaches - just in time for USA skating to splash Gracie Gold all over the TV and front covers. She'll be the news and it will be far from a public relations "disaster" that there was some controversy over who got the third spot.

 

[WeakAnkles]

The whole situation in general. I was talking this morning to a friend of mine who would qualify as a "general public fan"--she watches nationals every year with her daughter, they occasionally watch worlds, etc. And the first question out of her mouth to me this morning was, "Isn't this just like that Olympic scandal that started all this mess?" And even though I explained to her the differences, her essential attitude is that judging is meaningless. After all, if someone scores enough points to qualify for the Olympics and then is left off the World Team after, according to her perception, qualifying for that too, then qualifying competitions in and of themselves are meaningless. Does that make sense?

You know, the USFSA could have avoided so much of this if they had simply instituted the system back in 2012. Put a board up on their site with the results from each competition, showing that X skater has been the most successful over the entire year and has thus earned a trip to Worlds. Don't spring it on people at literally the last moment with the air of a fait accompli. That's just basic PR. If you are going to make a radical change in a process or product, you prepare your customers for it.

 

[wallylutz]

Regarding the situation of Max and Jason, as someone already pointed out, Jeremy may skip the Worlds after all. So this whole debate may turn out to be a moot point. But assuming Jeremy will take part, so why should Max get the spot over Jason who best him?

Well, here are their Nationals result:

Jason Brown : SP = 45.79 + 41.69 FS = 89.27 + 93.34
Max Aaron : SP = 47.17 + 39.78 FS = 93.51 +79.98

Jason's combined TES = 45.79 + 89.27 = 135.06
Max's combined TES = 47.17 + 93.51 = 140.68

Max actually best Jason by over 5 points in TES and Jason's win is entirely results of better PCS and a number that is completely unrealistic by international standard. The U.S. judges may have been carried away emotionally but it's unlikely a quadless skate in both SP and FS will get you such high PCS at the Olympics or Worlds no more than Katarina Witt can expect to get 5.9 and 6.0 for Presentation at the 1994 Olympics with only the easier Triples.

 

[brightphoton]

Suzuki had a surprisingly decent season that year, but before then was not skating to anorexia. So she had very little history to go on (like Edmunds). Nakano, in the meantime, had been on the GP circuit and B events, with mixed results but they were not bad either, and at least she was out there skating (like Nagasu). The decision was between Yukari who had more international participation with less impressive placements, and Suzuki who had less international exposure but managed to get a lower-ranked medal in the ones she did participate in.

 

[Frenchie]

Mirai should look at this way: If she does well next season and makes the podium, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for them to leave her off the team. And please, for heaven's sake, get a coach!

Cool, I wasn't aware there will be Olympic Winter Games again next season. :sarcasm:

 

[blancanieves]

They made the switch for Men's and Pair's World teams but not for dance or Ladies'? That really is crappy. I feel for Mirai and Madison and Zachary. At least for the sake of public relations the USFSA should have been consistent.

The National Champion has to be assigned to Worlds. If C/B and the Shibutanis are fit and able, there's no reason not to send them. H/D, being the first alternates, could go if D/W retire, but I don't know what their plan is.

 

[brightphoton]

Cool, I wasn't aware there will be Olympic Winter Games again next season. :sarcasm:

and I thought Mirai did have a coach, that woman who looks like an older version of Bebe Liang ...?

 

[Layfan]

Cool, I wasn't aware there will be Olympic Winter Games again next season. :sarcasm:

Obviously, I was referring to the world's team. :sarcasm:

 

[rocketry]

Regarding the situation of Max and Jason, as someone already pointed out, Jeremy may skip the Worlds after all. So this whole debate may turn out to be a moot point. But assuming Jeremy will take part, so why should Max get the spot over Jason who best him?

Well, here are their Nationals result:

Jason Brown : SP = 45.79 + 41.69 FS = 89.27 + 93.34
Max Aaron : SP = 47.17 + 39.78 FS = 93.51 +79.98

Jason's combined TES = 45.79 + 89.27 = 135.06
Max's combined TES = 47.17 + 93.51 = 140.68

Max actually best Jason by over 5 points in TES and Jason's win is entirely results of better PCS and a number that is completely unrealistic by international standard. The U.S. judges may have been carried away emotionally but it's unlikely a quadless skate in both SP and FS will get you such high PCS at the Olympics or Worlds no more than Katarina Witt can expect to get 5.9 and 6.0 for Presentation at the 1994 Olympics with only the easier Triples.

Isn't that basically admitting that the Nationals judging procedure is faulty though? It's pretty embarrassing that a Federation has so little faith in it's judging that it has to alter the outcomes.

Anyway, I think that even international panels would give Jason Brown would deserve an advantage in PCS no matter what if they skate like how they did at Nationals.

 

[FlattFan]

US didn't think to publish the criteria because they didn't think Wagner is as inconsistent as ever. She messed up badly last year. Then didn't do so well for the rest of the year. She messed up badly at the GPF this year and was gifted the bronze. Messed up again. I predict something similar and unremarkable from her the rest of the season. Why do people think Wagner is consistent is beyond reason. How many clean 7 triples LE has she ever done?

 

[wallylutz]

Isn't that basically admitting that the Nationals judging procedure is faulty though? It's pretty embarrassing that a Federation has so little faith in it's judging that it has to alter the outcomes.

um...I think everyone knows you can't make a decision based on a one-off event. This isn't the 1960's anymore where the Nationals is about the only real competition on any skater's calendar prior to Worlds. Time to welcome the United States to the 21st century and the USFS reacted accordingly by amending their own rules and published them years in advance. The fact some people chose ignore the rules is no excuse. If you are caught breaking the law, you can't claim ignorance as your defense so why can anyone claim they didn't know the selection rules were changed?

 

[burntBREAD]

*shrugs* I don't get the controversy over the ladies' selections. Nagasu has a major technical flaw that would see her eaten alive by a strict Olympic panel. Do her fans REALLY want to see that, or would you all start whinging again about "phantom URs"?

I think more of the complaints now are that she didn't even get a Worlds selection. Why did Aaron and D/C get one but she didn't?

 

[FlattFan]

Suzuki had a surprisingly decent season that year, but before then was not skating to anorexia. So she had very little history to go on (like Edmunds). Nakano, in the meantime, had been on the GP circuit and B events, with mixed results but they were not bad either, and at least she was out there skating (like Nagasu). The decision was between Yukari who had more international participation with less impressive placements, and Suzuki who had less international exposure but managed to get a lower-ranked medal in the ones she did participate in.

What the hell?
The entire season, Suzuki was on fire. Consistently putting out 7 triples in the LP.
The year before that, her only assignment at NHK, she got silver and beat Nakano.
At Nationals, Suzuki also beat Nakano again.

How is this situation the same? Think

 

[brightphoton]

I think more of the complaints now are that she didn't even get a Worlds selection. Why did Aaron and D/C get one but she didn't?

"Because."

- USFSA

 

[Mrs. P]

Isn't that basically admitting that the Nationals judging procedure is faulty though? It's pretty embarrassing that a Federation has so little faith in it's judging that it has to alter the outcomes.

Not nesscessarily. We have to remember that PCS scores are given in relation to the rest of the field. Jason's performance here was a huge standout relative to his competitors at nationals. He will be much less of a standout in the international field -- though he can hold his own.

Max didn't skate a perfect program, nor was his performance was electorfying as Jason's. So I think the placements were correct. I could play devil's advocate and say honestly that a score in the high 170s was probably more reasonable. But given what he put on the ice, I can see why judges were compelled to score him much higher.

ETA: oh I realize you were talking about something else. Oh well my point applies somewhere...

Regarding what you were asking-- the answer is still no. I will only say that it would be great if the usfsa would be more transparent about how past events factored in the selection. All we know is the top 5 at nationals are consisded and these certain past results are considered.

 

[coolboogie22]

Petition for Mirai : http://www.change.org/petitions/u-s...-patricia-st-peter-send-mirai-nagasu-to-sochi