Use of the word "Package" to describe a skater's on-ice attributes

[R.D.]

It's not acceptable, but it is inevitable.

OK, so...does that mean nothing at all should be done to at least try to minimize that tendency (e.g., scrutinize "out-of-line" scores/judges more)? Should we just accept this as "the way things are?"

I get it, you don't like the term but it is used because it is a "catch all" term. It is not just for skaters, but for singers, political leaders, dancers etc. People don't use the term to suggest a skater's attribute are artificial or manufactured.

Like I said, we are all overreacting; whether you attach an negative connotation to it or not, I think most don't object to the use of the term. This includes skaters and coaches.

I get it, it's a culture thing.


Anyway, can anyone else think of a SPORT (apart from skating, if you consider it to be one) in which this term is used regularly?

 

[Mathman]

Who has been most fun to watch this season, Kobe Bryant or Lebron James?

David Thorpe, Scouts, Inc.: "For the whole package, I say LeBron."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-120119/nba-kobe-bryant-lebron-james

 

[R.D.]

^ Thanks.

As far as I'm concerned, I can recognize a subtle difference between referring to "the total package" (more a figure of speech/"catch all" term as another poster put it) and referring to a skater's "packaging" as if they were some sort of sales commodity or holiday gift :scratch: anyone want Gracie Gold in a nice little "package" for Christmas?

 

[concorde]

I view "total package" to be the catch-all that includes skating, choreography, connection to the music/audience, and how the outfit relates to the music. If someone said that an elite skater has a "total package," I would certainly view that as a compliment.

"Packaging" I view more as to how a skater is marketed. I can appreciate how some skaters skate on the ice but I don't like how they are "packaged." So I view "packaging" to be more of a personal preference.

 

[gkelly]

Maybe "packaging" suggests primarily the external aspects, i.e., the wrapping, and "total package" puts more emphasis on the contents of the package.

 

[ice coverage]

... Anyway, can anyone else think of a SPORT (apart from skating, if you consider it to be one) in which this term is used regularly?

Random examples from soccer, tennis, and baseball are below.
I purposely have chosen references to male athletes ... to dispel the notion that the terms are applied only to females.

David Beckham speaking of soccer player James Rodriguez:
"I think he's got a great future. He's such a talented player and he's a good-looking kid as well, he's got the whole package."
http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/sto...lionel-messi-to-decide-world-cup-final-071214 (2014)

From an AP story:
... Indeed, early in his career, Djokovic stood out less for his shot-making than for his showmanship ...
Right now, though, the 24-year-old from Serbia is the total package, with the bona fides to prove it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon11/news/story?id=6735069 (2011)

From an MLB column:
That would be April 11, 2001, when Ichiro Suzuki threw a low laser to third base to get Terrence Long.
That one was breathtaking because Ichiro's career in this country was just getting started, and all the talk had been about whether his batting style would translate.
With that throw, Ichiro announced, "Hey, I'm the whole package." Indeed, he has been the whole package.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/79246...oenis-cespedes-arm-part-of-an-amazing-package (2014)​

 

[lyndichee]

OK, so...does that mean nothing at all should be done to at least try to minimize that tendency (e.g., scrutinize "out-of-line" scores/judges more)? Should we just accept this as "the way things are?"





I get it, it's a culture thing.


Anyway, can anyone else think of a SPORT (apart from skating, if you consider it to be one) in which this term is used regularly?

Yeah of course we try to minimize it, that's why of 9 judges, the highest and lowest score is dropped to try to eliminate bias. Just like scoring pdfs are uploaded so people can scrutinize them.

As for your second question, it has been answered by many people. It's not a culture thing, it is just the meaning you attach to the word. You see "package" as manufactured; when we use package, we use it as a general term. If you don't like it, then you can use whatever term you think works for you but I don't think there was any need to continue debating or creating a whole new topic on it.

 

[Icey]

Is it bad that I thought this thread was about skaters' packages?

No, which skater lol has the best "package" LMAO

 

[R.D.]

Yeah of course we try to minimize it, that's why of 9 judges, the highest and lowest score is dropped to try to eliminate bias. Just like scoring pdfs are uploaded so people can scrutinize them.

I would then ask whether that is enough, but that's really beyond the scope of this thread. I've seen some really odd patterns in score sheets sometimes which the above wouldn't be capable of fully addressing...but nevermind, forget it.

As for your second question, it has been answered by many people. It's not a culture thing, it is just the meaning you attach to the word.

Fair enough, let's agree to disagree...at least regarding the use of "package" as a verb ("package" a skater vs. skater has "the package") I mentioned culture because I swear I've never heard the word used "that way" outside of skating/fashion world...

...I don't think there was any need to continue debating or creating a whole new topic on it.

The reason this thread was started was to get the US Ladies thread back on topic. I made a brief mention of "package" there and to my moderate surprise that totally derailed the thread. So...I started this thread to "move" that discussion over here so that that thread could get back to discussing the American women...a simple concept, really.


_____________

ETA: I suppose I should make it clear to some that I'm much more interested in the "why/how" behind people's use of the term than in trying to make it stop (if it was possible anyway)...

 

[R.D.]

Random examples from soccer, tennis, and baseball are below.
I purposely have chosen references to male athletes ... to dispel the notion that the terms are applied only to females.

David Beckham speaking of soccer player James Rodriguez:
"I think he's got a great future. He's such a talented player and he's a good-looking kid as well, he's got the whole package."
http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/sto...lionel-messi-to-decide-world-cup-final-071214 (2014)

From an AP story:
... Indeed, early in his career, Djokovic stood out less for his shot-making than for his showmanship ...
Right now, though, the 24-year-old from Serbia is the total package, with the bona fides to prove it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/wimbledon11/news/story?id=6735069 (2011)

From an MLB column:
That would be April 11, 2001, when Ichiro Suzuki threw a low laser to third base to get Terrence Long.
That one was breathtaking because Ichiro's career in this country was just getting started, and all the talk had been about whether his batting style would translate.
With that throw, Ichiro announced, "Hey, I'm the whole package." Indeed, he has been the whole package.
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/79246...oenis-cespedes-arm-part-of-an-amazing-package (2014)​

Thanks. I do notice all examples given so far in other sports use "package" as a NOUN ("such and such" has "the total package" as a catch-all phrase for being able to do everything, I guess, or whatever)...a difference I'm seeing is that many skating fans use it as a VERB ("package" a skater this way and not that way).

 

[ice coverage]

Thanks. I do notice all examples given so far in other sports use "package" as a NOUN ("such and such" has "the total package" as a catch-all phrase for being able to do everything, I guess, or whatever)...a difference I'm seeing is that many skating fans use it as a VERB ("package" a skater this way and not that way).

Keep in mind that skating is a judged sport, whereas the examples in this thread have been from non-judged sports.

Packaging a tennis player, for example, would affect only her/his marketing appeal -- not her/his ability to win matches or tournaments.

I suppose that packaging a baseball pitcher a certain way could increase interest from potential new teams, but it would not improve his ERA.

Even among judged sports, skating is unique b/c its athletes are portraying characters and/or themes -- thus the thought/effort that goes not only into music, but also into the packaging choices for costuming and hair/makeup.

 

[R.D.]

Packaging a tennis player, for example, would affect only her/his marketing appeal -- not her/his ability to win matches or tournaments.

I suppose that packaging a baseball pitcher a certain way could increase interest from potential new teams, but it would not improve his ERA.
.

so in what context does "packaging" mean in this case? A synonym for "marketing"?

 

[ice coverage]

so in what context does "packaging" mean in this case? A synonym for "marketing"?

I should have noted in my previous post that I always have disagreed with the lumping of apples and oranges together within this one thread.

I have said at least twice before that I think "package/total package" is a very different concept from "packaging" -- whether the words are applied to skaters, to other athletes, or to members of completely unrelated fields: show biz, politics, academia, etc.

Anyway ... examples of "package" used as a verb in an ESPN article about Tiger Woods:

The striking thing about Tiger Woods' attempts last week to pre-empt and spin the one-year anniversary of his Thanksgiving Day car crash was how he couldn't resist giving us a repackaged man to replace the meticulously packaged fraud he got in trouble for being in the first place -- and then again tried to pass this latest version off as his "authentic" self. ....

Even Woods' ham-handed image handlers and agents at IMG should know the first axiom in a good storyteller's handbook is show us, don't tell us.
Repackaging Woods isn't proof that he has made some genuine personal migration. The impulse to package him at all just makes us think what Tiger is seeking and mourning and yearning to recapture one year later is the enormous power and stature he lost.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5843794 (2010)​

IMO, "packaging" is not being used as a synonym for "marketing" -- although I would say that a primary purpose of the packaging/repackaging of Woods was marketing.

 

[concorde]

Here is how I see them:

total/complete package = catch all phrase which is a compliment if someone says Skater XX has a compete package.

Packaging = marketing and is very subjunctive.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

No, which skater lol has the best "package" LMAO

LOL, my mind is still in the gutter, because now I'm just comparing skaters' packages in my mind.

Yes, I understand... it's which skater has the best packaging of the qualities that make great skaters. (Not that one of my criteria isn't having a nice package. )

 

[jorge]

Package sounds like object. Is the first time on years that i heard package for describe technical elements.i always define with detail about technical elements , choreography and elegance . Is better be clear and explain with detail for avoid misunderstanding that some fans create.

 

[Mathman]

Here's what the online Urban Dictionary has to say:

The whole package: A person who possesses all the ideal qualities one is searching for. In terms of a stereotypical potential spouse, a person who is the whole package would have a beautiful face, a great body, intelligence, humor, kindness, confidence, financial stability, maturity, etc.

A prospective employee who is the whole package would have breadth and depth of experience, constant creativity, initiative, great communication skills, assertive leadership, unimpeachable integrity, punctuality, and so forth.

"Wow. This new marketing director is the whole package. Everything about her is awesome."

 

[SoundtracksOnIce]

I was thinking about the possible negatives of the packaging idea and I came up with two possibilities. One is if the skater was packaged "wrong" like some of the concerns with Gracie Gold. Frank Carroll seems to prefer a particular style for his skaters and if that style doesn't fit, it could hurt the skater.

The other thing would be the worry of "typecasting" so to speak, where a skater is so known for one style that when they want to try something new, their fans don't like it as much. For example we all think of Sasha Cohen as balletic or dramatic. What if in 2005 or 2006 she had suddenly come out wanting to perform a fun lively character number to "Indiana Jones" or "Mission Impossible" or something like that?

It's such a catch-22. On the one hand I suppose that's why skaters want to do versatile routines like Tessa & Scott with Pink Floyd but if there is a style you really don't like, I wouldn't want to see someone forced to perform to it just to prove they could do all styles. And when I think of all the pieces of music I love and would want to perform to if I skated, I have more than two quadrenniums of short and long programs without sticking things I felt like I "had" to do in as well. (And I would feel like I was wasting a season that I could be spending performing a routine I really loved). But I would hate to get pigeon-holed if I did find something I loved that was really different from what I usually did.

 

[hippomoomin]

The term "total package" for me means a skater has good jumps, good spins, good ss, good presentation & interpretation, and probably well proportioned body line and to a lesser extent pretty looking face.
But when I say a skater is "packaged well" I mean he/she found a program that makes full use of his/her strength and hides weakness.