VA Tech Shooting...

[SeaniBu]

I don't know if anyone remembers the song by XTC "Melt the Guns" but is that our choice? And how do we prevent them from being manufactured? Cops getting ambushed by gangs sounds like what will happen if we only arm the law enforcement. More dead cops. We have to deal with that which is. I also think that would cause an increase to the home manufacturing of bombs - yes speculation - but not thinking ahead is probably one of the reasons that we are in the predicament we are regarding many many things.

 

[R.D.]

oh good lord.

All this just has me thinking of one saying: you can take the girl out of the trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of the girl.

IOW...an outright ban on guns WOULD NOT SOLVE THE VIOLENCE PROBLEM!!!

 

[Piel]

If they are not available how in the h*** are people going to be shot? You cannot tell me that closing down every gun store and removing them from every home would not reduce the number of shootings. Yes they would still occur but not as much..........and that is an improvement. There would still be violent people but they would be disarmed.

 

[Ptichka]

WHY do we need guns? Unless you are in law enforcement or one of the few people that have no other way to feed themselves other than hunt. This is an item that no one HAS to have. Get rid of all of them except in the above mentioned circumstances. Even police officers need to be monitored more closely than they are. If they are not available then they can't get into the wrong hands. There are no recreational hunters that can't pick up another hobby. Not only would you avoid nutcases getting their hands on them it would eliminate all of the tragic cases of accidental shootings.

Disclaimer: it's odd for me to find myself on the pro-gun side, since I generally consider myself rather anti-gun; I have two acquaintances who carry firearms - they know they are not allowed into my house unless they leave it at home or in the car. Seriously.
Dangerous things society allows that nobody "has to" have:
1. Alcohol. No one has to drink. People who drink often do things dangerous to themselves and others.
2. Cars. Why don't we only allow professional drivers to drive. The rest can use public transportation and cabs. Really, how many more people have to die because people don't know how to drive before society takes action! And waaaaaay more people die or get injured every year because of cars than because of guns.

Also, Canada, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Germany, and Yemen have had school shootings - so we're not alone here. Japan had a school stabbing. Kenya - a school arson. I won't even mention Beslan - I'll concede that's very different. So we're not exactly unique.

 

[Piel]

BUT guns have no other purpose than to injure and kill..............that is what they are made for. THAT is the difference between guns and automobiles.

 

[R.D.]

ok say you DO ban guns. Did Prohibition effectively stop alcohol use? It's just going to move underground.

I think it stems more from culture than the fact that there are access to guns.

 

[Ptichka]

BUT guns have no other purpose than to injure and kill..............that is what they are made for. THAT is the difference between guns and automobiles.

I do have friends who like to shoot for sport. While I don't understand it, and I think this is the only issue on which I ever "forbid" my husband from doing something, they are reasonable people who should not be denied this pastime just because there are crazies out there.

 

[Tonichelle]

ok say you DO ban guns. Did Prohibition effectively stop alcohol use? It's just going to move underground.

exactly... and if it does move underground - more than it already has - the police arent going to be able to stop it...

besides, if someone is coming into my home with the intent to harm me, I'm going to use any and all force... I do think it should be a right we continue to have - I like the idea that I can protect myself if that day comes...

Some people on this thread are coming dangerously close to calling anyone with a gun a criminal mind, and that just isn't true. Most gun owners are incredibly responsible with their tools... and yes guns are tools...

you can use anything, if you really want to cause harm, and it be just as effective.

Yes, guns were designed to kill and to injure, but! that does not make them any more dangerous than a crazy guy or a drunk guy behind the wheel of a car. Or a crazed woman with an axe... or or or.... we've seen a lot of types of weapons in the past used, guns just get teh most heat.

I do think that there need to be stricter gun laws, especially when it comes to mental health

however you'd first have to change the rules to make it so you can get info on a person's mental state... so yeah, good luck with that one lol

We're not allowed to have bombs, right? Make them buy them whatever? Right? That just means people have to make their own... guns are no different, it's not that hard to build one. And bullets are easy to make (and cheap!) and sometimes more effective...

so unless we wipe everyone's minds (Hello, 1984) you're not going to see the violence stop.

 

[Piel]

So I take it that you guys don't think that by banning them if even one life were saved it would not be worth thousands of recreational hunters having to find another hobby. I bet if that one life saved was one of your loved ones you would think differently. Everyone can find another hobby you can't bring a shooting victim back to life. Yes there are other evils in the world but here is a solution to ending one of them. No ones desire for a deer dinner should supercede another's right to live safely. By banning them you make it more difficult for the nutcases to get access to them.

 

[Tonichelle]

Piel - in my family's case it's a little more than a hobby... a moose feeds my family for 6-8 months out of the year... then fishing season starts... yeah my dad has a job and makes money but food prices are outrageous... harvesting off the land is the only way my parents stay afloat.

and I can't say what I would say if it were my family affected by gun violence, but at this time I doubt that I would be completely anti-gun.

Guns can be outlawed, but that won't mean they will be gone. The people who aren't going to abide by the law, the ones that kill, aren't going to be the ones that follow that law.

 

[SeaniBu]

So I take it that you guys don't think that by banning them if even one life were saved it would not be worth thousands of recreational hunters having to find another hobby. I bet if that one life saved was one of your loved ones you would think differently.

I don't believe the one life saved would be because of a ban on guns, and the ban would cause more security for the wackos that kill for they know people could not defend themselves. So more would acutely die as the case appears.

Matter of just a hobby is not necessarily the case, as well there are other ways to hunt.

I wouldn't. Because I would not blame an inanimate object for the killing, but the person who did it.

Yes there are other evils in the world but here is a solution to ending one of them. No ones desire for a deer dinner should supercede another's right to live safely. By banning them you make it more difficult for the nutcases to get access to them.

That is entirely contingent on everyone being law abiding if a gun ban happened. They wouldn't be, and the killers already are not law abiding - it just does not even have the most remote chance of happening to even conceder. And when considered it still does not add to public safety.

btw, I have a plastic pellet stuck in my upper lip from my brother shooting me in the mouth.

eta - I guess I could have just agreed with Toni on this.*shrugs*

 

[Ptichka]

So I take it that you guys don't think that by banning them if even one life were saved it would not be worth thousands of recreational hunters having to find another hobby. I bet if that one life saved was one of your loved ones you would think differently. Everyone can find another hobby you can't bring a shooting victim back to life.

Piel, that's the same arguments that has been used to justify the most outrageous parts of the Patriot act - if it prevents even one terrorist act, it's worth the encroachment on the personal freedom. Personally, I don't buy that logic.

 

[gio]

Also, Canada, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Germany, and Yemen have had school shootings - so we're not alone here. Japan had a school stabbing. Kenya - a school arson. I won't even mention Beslan - I'll concede that's very different. So we're not exactly unique.

I can agree for the other examples, but Bosnia Herzegovina had recently a civil war. A lot of people there have the guns from the war. Some people there suffer the war syndrome. So it's a different situation.

 

[Tonichelle]

um considering one of the murders in Kenai happened with a bow and arrow, Seanibu, I think hunters would also quickly lose the rights for other types of hunting implements... it's always a snowball effect...

 

[SeaniBu]

um considering one of the murders in Kenai happened with a bow and arrow, Seanibu, I think hunters would also quickly lose the rights for other types of hunting implements... it's always a snowball effect...

You're not getting the impression I am in agreeance with the gun ban are you?

Yep, it would be the "snowball effect." And one that would not help killings stop IMO just make them easier for the freaks to do because no one will have a defense.

btw, I am really good with a bow (recurve, I am not as good with compound). But Bow hunting is so stinking hard, people would starve if they had to resort to that as well.:agree:

 

[Wolfgang]

Guns are not only for injuring and killing, they are also for protection.
A gun (or the possibility thereof) in the hands of a homeowner, for example, is a mighty powerful deterrent for burglars, home invaders, and the like.
There are some parts of this lovely city where I would feel safer if I went there armed, and I'm a pretty peaceful, live-and-let-live sort of guy, who doesn' t want to shoot anyone.
Banning things never eliminates them, that's a pipe dream.
It only drives them underground, as other posters have mentioned before, and makes them less available to the average person, but no less available to the criminals and nutcases who want to hurt us.
Almost all European nations have gun laws that border on dictatorship, and yet people get shot there all the time.
They don't plaster it all over the news like we do in this country (where the first 15 minutes of every news cast consist of flashing blue lights and yellow tape), but it happens nonetheless.
You can buy a gun just as easily in Holland as you can in Virginia, you just have to go to sleazier sources to get them........

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Guns are not only for injuring and killing, they are also for protection.
A gun (or the possibility thereof) in the hands of a homeowner, for example, is a mighty powerful deterrent for burglars, home invaders, and the like.
There are some parts of this lovely city where I would feel safer if I went there armed, and I'm a pretty peaceful, live-and-let-live sort of guy, who doesn' t want to shoot anyone.

There are procedures for registering a gun. There are procedures for purchasing and registering a gun. There are no procedures for purchasing a gun without registering it. Yet it happpens constantly. Any attempt to force the gun manufacturers and sellers of arms to stop selling guns will be met with the protection of the Gun Lobby. The Gun Lobby is against the attempts to stop the manufacturing of and selling of guns. Over and out.

Joe

 

[gio]

Almost all European nations have gun laws that border on dictatorship, and yet people get shot there all the time.
They don't plaster it all over the news like we do in this country (where the first 15 minutes of every news cast consist of flashing blue lights and yellow tape), but it happens nonetheless.

"Laws that border on dictatorship"??? Use different words, because dictatorship is completely innapropriate. Dear Wolfgang, we are DEMOCRACIES as you are!!! A democracy doesn't mean a country that permits all. With your way of thinking, are you less democratic because you don't legalize drugs or prostitution? I don't think so!! And what are you saying isn't true, because hunters here in Italy can legally buy guns. The same in Slovenia. You have to show a certification that you are a hunter to buy it.

 

[gio]

They don't plaster it all over the news like we do in this country (where the first 15 minutes of every news cast consist of flashing blue lights and yellow tape), but it happens nonetheless.

Another untrue statement!! Every shooting or killing in general is reported in the news and analized! Most of the times as the first news reported.

 

[R.D.]

Always refreshing to have someone from the area clear things up.