VA Tech Shooting...

[Tonichelle]

btw, I am really good with a bow (recurve, I am not as good with compound). But Bow hunting is so stinking hard, people would starve if they had to resort to that as well.:agree:

My dad harvested a moose a couple years back with a bow (bow hunting starts a couple weeks before gun hunting... so it gives dad that much more time to fill the freezer with a catch)

If guns were gone we'd have to resort to bow hunting, while you are not allowed to hunt without a permit there will be the idiots who don't follow the laws (gosh, never heard that before) and a lot of animals (and possibly other hunters) will die of wounds SLOWLY....

guns are a quicker and 'more humane' way of hunting... though a bow is a better option if you are worried about how much meat is damaged... but if you're experienced enough either one works fine...


also guns are used for a hunter's protection. when gutting a moose bears love to pop up... and, well, Alaska trees are normally dead or dying... and you just can't climb them! (at least where my dad always ends up getting his moose... *shivers*)


Joe - in a perfect world, you're right, we wouldn't need guns... but we do, for hunting - some like it for protection. I - as a female in a city with ever growing violence [and not all of it by gun... rape is big in Anchorage] I feel much safer knowing I have a way to protect myself... in Kenai I also feel teh same way, with the growing number of sexual predators.

My brother sleeps safe (And this breaks my heart) because dad has guns [never mind they're locked in a gun case far away from everyone lol] and so Duane feels protected from his biological father (Who has threatened my family numberous times over the years because we adopted him)... when there's a bump in the night my brother sleeps in a closet because he thinks bio-dad is coming to get and kill him. That dad has a gun, it makes him think there's a chance his bio-dad can't kill him.


And back to the rape thing. As weird as this might sound... I don't think I could handle it, and I'd rather they just kill me... mace doesn't always stop the guy either... as last week at UAA proved...

I don't plan on carrying a gun (need a permit for it anyway) but it's nice to know I have that option....

 

[SeaniBu]

Wow Toni, I am fully depressed. By reality not you. The comments were good I just feel so....something.

Anyway, the Bow hunting, yes most are lousy shots or take it when they are a 40 yard at 60 just because they had to "crawl" for so long, etc.... It would make for some very inhumane deaths.

I must emphasize I am 100% with the comments about hand gun control and hunting that you have made so I am understood as in agreeance with you. I disagree lots with you so I want to make sure you know, I am agreeing this time, LOTS!

BOT, the fact I have seen Deer with arrows sticking out of their heads running around functioning normally is a great indication of how difficult, precise skill necessary and unpredictable bow hunting can be. And that can wind up causing a lot of pain to a Deer that could have been made much more humane if guns were allowed.:agree:

I think the separation of hand gun and rifle needs to start getting realized in this topic too. Just as automatic weapons are different than any 30-06 bolt action I have seen used in hunting. But hey, I have friends who hunt to hunt, not play Rambo.

Sounds like your Dad is someone I would like in a lot of ways.:agree:

 

[Tonichelle]

my dad's a pretty likable guy.... a lot of people called him "Al" from Home Improvement (which drove my dad up the wall because his name is Alan and he can't STAND Al as a nickname lol) but my dad wears flannel and did resemble Richard Karn when he was at his heavy weight lol...

now I don't see it as much, but he does still channel that kind of personality.. though he's not as geeky (well all the time lol) he's a pretty healthy combo of both Tim and Al... so he's a regular guy... loves to do the 'More Power' grunt...

and loves the outdoors and the sportsmanship stuff of the outdoors. Fishing (he designed an entire line of fishing rods for Gary Kings' company before it went belly up... as well as a couple of rafts that are still sold nationwide), hunting, hiking... snowmachining fourwheeling (I think he's living out his second childhood right now lol)

he'd be perfectly content to live out in the middle of nowhere in a cabin... he and mom talk about it often...

dad said if he couldn't enjoy Alaska the way he does now, he'd move out of state. There's no reason to stay if the continue to close it up to those that live here.

anyway back to the subject at hand - the original one - Cho's family has finally ended their silence: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18201501/

 

[gio]

Joe - in a perfect world, you're right, we wouldn't need guns... but we do, for hunting - some like it for protection. I - as a female in a city with ever growing violence [and not all of it by gun... rape is big in Anchorage] I feel much safer knowing I have a way to protect myself... in Kenai I also feel teh same way, with the growing number of sexual predators.
My brother sleeps safe (And this breaks my heart) because dad has guns [never mind they're locked in a gun case far away from everyone lol] and so Duane feels protected from his biological father (Who has threatened my family numberous times over the years because we adopted him)... when there's a bump in the night my brother sleeps in a closet because he thinks bio-dad is coming to get and kill him. That dad has a gun, it makes him think there's a chance his bio-dad can't kill him.

I could better understand your point of view by the description you have made. I didn't think that also Alaska had a growing violence problem. I always imagined Alaska as a very calm state. It's sad to hear all those things (rapes, killings). I live in a part of my country where these bad things are still relatively rare. Unfortunately things are changing also here.
My pipe dream is no violence, no wars, no terrorism, where everybody could live safe. I realize this won't happen. Just thinking that human history is made of killings.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joe - in a perfect world, you're right, we wouldn't need guns... but we do, for hunting - some like it for protection. I - as a female in a city with ever growing violence [and not all of it by gun... rape is big in Anchorage] I feel much safer knowing I have a way to protect myself... in Kenai I also feel teh same way, with the growing number of sexual predators.

Pithy saying. We all agree it is not a perfect world. If we need guns to protect ourselves then we ALL should have them. What would you think of having ALL students equipt with a gun and if someone starts shooting, others could knock him out and it would decrease the casualty numbers. One has to do something in an imperfect world.

Joe

 

[gio]

Another shooting happened in Houston at NASA. The assassin killed a person and himself and injured a woman. A copycat, probably.

 

[Wolfgang]

gio - I grew up over there.
Sorry, but I do know what it's like.

Btw - 'over and out' doesn't exist as a phrase.
'Over' means you've finished talking and it's now the other person's turn, 'out' means you're going to hang up now......

 

[SeaniBu]

What would you think of having ALL students equipt with a gun and if someone starts shooting, others could knock him out and it would decrease the casualty numbers. One has to do something in an imperfect world.

I don't see how one ridiculously over exaggerative comment is going to prove another wrong. I have heard that before as well.

"We all should have them?" OK, now I am starting to wonder what happened to the rationality on this topic.
If it took one guy to kill 30+ where in the world does that rationality happen that "everyone" needs them for them to be safER.

It is strange that hunting is really even coming up. Different guns. Are we going to clump stun guns in the ban too?

Usually we can find 2 opposite POVs and create a common ground in between that acutely has the best solution.

btw, Over and out is a semi-sarcastic phrase that is used to mean "I am done talking and I am hanging up now.":agree: Pointing out "I have said my peace and am not going to listen to you." Is is commonly used "correctly" and incorrectly. But a phrase that is in existence. Glad to see some still understand or notice the intent of "over and out.":yes:

 

[Tonichelle]

It is strange that hunting is really even coming up. Different guns. Are we going to clump stun guns in the ban too?

A gun is a gun... our pastor killed a bear with a hand gun... once - wouldn't recommend it, but it can be done.

And no I don't recommed everyone start 'packing heat' had someone actually read my post instead of just jump on in and try to negate my point of view they might actually understand the other side.

 

[SeaniBu]

A gun is a gun...

???? A stun gun. I guess it is back to disagreeing with you Hand guns are often on my camping trips in bear territory - they have things like "bear bells" - give me a break, that is known to some campers as a bears dinner bell - and bear mace, which has not been proven effective. And believe me when I say none of us want to carry the heavy gun in our packs. That is why I bought a 3 man 3 1/2 season tent, so I could always say I am carrying our home already.

Anyhoo, handguns and automatic weapons in my POV being banned is not something I can totally disagree with, but if ALL guns were I think that is stupid ideology that will not have any good results.

But really a real background check and the media would stop glorifying these killers after their atrocity would give less incentive to other potentials thinking I want my little home video after I kill a bunch of people too. This guy has his face and name everywhere. He achieved "fame," take that away and I think we would see a decrease in freaks thinking this is a way to gain ever lasting fame. It is sending the wrong message to freaks that they will be famous if they kill, and the more the more fame they will have. JAT

And no I don't recommed everyone start 'packing heat' had someone actually read my post instead of just jump on in and try to negate my point of view they might actually understand the other side.

Oop, back to agreeing with you 100%. I feel the same sometimes, and really think that the idea that there are more people packing guns might give a second thought to a killer alone might have good results.

Also it is fairly evident that the lock down immediately following the first murders would have helped. Delayed or what ever? who really knows, but due to him going back to his room ... well a lock down would have kept him there at the same time as put everyone on alert. And if he tried to get over and kill the teachers and students he hated in Norris, he would have stood out.

There is always a bunch of "could haves" but this is one that was a per-thought that was not instituted and did cause a killer to have freedom he may have otherwise not had - at least so easy. I just hope a lesson is learned, being as it was already taught but the law did not enforce the "education" and decided thinking they were safe was the best course of action.:disapp:

 

[Tonichelle]

I was not referring to a stun gun, I was referring to your first part about how we got on the topic of guns and outlawing them... handgun is what was used at the shooting, but hunting rifles (Which is what I thought you meant) are just as deadly and have been used to shoot up buildings...people... etc...

as for stun gun, that's like packing mace or a knife for protection... I still have to hope and pray I get close enough to use it before I'm harmed... not all that comforting lol

I have a semi-auto .22 rifle... I use it for hunting... it's just easier than reloading and trying to shoot again before the wounded animal gets away and I have to search for it...

If I'm not mistaken my 'moose gun' is not a semi-auto... I could be wrong though... been a while since I used it. (it's too pretty to bloody up! LOL) I don't have much chance to go moose hunting (I hate waking up at 3am to go hike and grunt for some animal that if I miss it can kill me lol)

 

[gio]

gio - I grew up over there.
Sorry, but I do know what it's like.

I live here and I know exactly how it is!! My dad has a friend who is a hunter. He has a certificate, with whom he can buy guns for hunting.
The news ALWAYS report if a killing has occured. You probably don't know how many problems we had with Mafia, Camorra and Ndrangheta. With the Red Brigads and with the Fascist terrorists. It was always reported in the news as the first news. Food for the media. The same with "private" killings or passion murders.
And no, we are not dictatorships, where killings occur and the media doesn't report!!!!

 

[SeaniBu]

I was not referring to a stun gun, I was referring to your first part about how we got on the topic of guns and outlawing them...

Oh.:agree: It was the "a gun is a gun" comment that threw me off.

handgun is what was used at the shooting, but hunting rifles (Which is what I thought you meant) are just as deadly and have been used to shoot up buildings...people... etc...

But NOT as easy to conceal, rapidly fire and in a lot of situations / not all, to aim as quickly.

as for stun gun, that's like packing mace or a knife for protection... I still have to hope and pray I get close enough to use it before I'm harmed... not all that comforting lol

IMO stun guns not hand guns would HELP anyway. But freaks will have them too.

I have a semi-auto .22 rifle... I use it for hunting... it's just easier than reloading and trying to shoot again before the wounded animal gets away and I have to search for it...

Agree, bolt action does take time, but my first suggestion would be get something other than a .22 unless it is only really small stuff, well maybe I am wrong for if you hit the kill zone and get it through - I wont get graphic, sorry - the animal will go down quite quickly. A friend was a Bow Champion and has some video of a hunt. Compound at 50 yards and though all 3 vitals. I moved maybe 30 yards and was out cold. Oxygen stops, heart stops, brain will stop.

If I'm not mistaken my 'moose gun' is not a semi-auto... I could be wrong though... been a while since I used it. (it's too pretty to bloody up! LOL) I don't have much chance to go moose hunting (I hate waking up at 3am to go hike and grunt for some animal that if I miss it can kill me lol)

For Moose and Elk - my brother held the record for sometime on largest elk killed, 9.75 point, we ate from that for almost 3 years - I can see wanting a semi rifle - I would be terrified of a Moose with a shot in its hind or shoulder turning and looking at me. I don't think I would be able to keep my hand still enough to reload Yet my bro did kill Ernie (the Elk) with a 30-06 bold action one shot.

 

[dutchherder]

I have a couple of suggestions that could have helped:

1. Every room in every building needs to have a lock on the door, and at the very least, the professor should have key to lock it. A push-button lock on the knob and/or a sliding lock or deadbolt would also be helpful so any person in the room could use it. There are several stories of students or professors holding a door shut with their bodies or furniture-- something a simple lock would have helped. I understand that a lock isn't foolproof, but it might slow someone down enough so that he may be apprehended before doing as much damage.

2. We have a system at the high school where I teach called Education Connection. With one call, it automatically calls every student's home in case of an emergency or school closing, etc. If colleges had that system, it could call every classroom, dorm room, common area, or office that has a phone with the emergency lockdown info. Plus, if students, staff, and faculty would agree to submit their cell phone numbers to the system list, they could still get the information if they are mobile. E-mail is just not sufficient to get the word out quickly enough.

Modern science and technology aren't yet able to cure crazy, but they can sure slow it down.

 

[SeaniBu]

Modern science and technology aren't yet able to cure crazy, but they can sure slow it down.

Maybe one of the best summaries I have ever heard.

 

[Tonichelle]

dutchherder, I agree...

I've also heard some colleges (including mine, but i find that out through the newspaper... not from the college itself, go figure) also use the text message feature on cell phones to get news out

however that assumes students have the text message option (I don't)...

there's no way for anything to work 100%, but this is another learning experience (not my preferred method of learning though) for administrations nationwide.

 

[heyang]

Based on what I've read, they said using loud speakers and and sirens, etc would have been the most practical.

As Toni mentioned, not everyone has the same services on their phone and there are still service dead spots. I've had people call me and my phone won't even ring - they leave me a message and sometimes I won't notice it til hours later.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Regardless of the size of the weapon or the intent of the user, ALL school children should carry a weapon for protection. Is that correct?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I agree, Joe. The idea that an armed populace makes us safe from deranged criminals is hard to justify. I know I would not feel any safer teaching my calculus class if I knew that all of my students had guns in their bookbags. Quite the contrary.

Or even some of them.

 

[heyang]

Does anyone know any statistics? What is the percentage of deaths by guns used in mass murderers vs accidental shootings by licensed gun holders? How many deaths occur due to illegal guns vs legal guns?

I definitely don't think it should be as easy as walking up to a counter to get a license and gun - especially semi and automatic guns. Imagine how many murders in the heat of the moment could occur if were that simple to get a gun. How many depressed people might commit suicide of gun control was even laxer?

People like Cho and desparate depressed people might go to extremes to kill, but there's no point in making it easier for them.

Most countries with strong gun control laws have not experienced a proportional increase in illegal guns that I know of.