Vladislav Dikidzhi lands quad Axel

[gsk8]

 

[AlexBreeze]

Two different attempts



Vladislav and his coach Oleg Tataurov told media that he hadn't attempted the 4A until today. He has landed 3/5 of his today's attempts.

 

[Skating91]

It's time to make the value of the 4A reflective of its difficulty.

 

[4everchan]

As more skaters land it, I doubt the base value will increase.

 

[TallyT]

It's time to make the value of the 4A reflective of its difficulty.

Again, TPTB deliberately reduced the value. For what they insisted were good and valid reasons. Until a fair number of the boys are more or less doing it or those reasons change, it would be the height of hypocrisy to put it up.

 

[icewhite]

Two different attempts



Vladislav and his coach Oleg Tataurov told media that he hadn't attempted the 4A until today. He has landed 3/5 of his today's attempts.

Honestly I find that hard to believe, but if it's true it's crazy.

 

[Arigato]

I know, I'll just jump a 4A today. Never tried it. Pull my left index finger - it plays jingle bells.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Honestly I find that hard to believe, but if it's true it's crazy.

Me too. Anyway, he already specified that it's the first time without harness. He attempted it with the harness about a month ago.

 

[Skating91]

Again, TPTB deliberately reduced the value. For what they insisted were good and valid reasons. Until a fair number of the boys are more or less doing it or those reasons change, it would be the height of hypocrisy to put it up.

The base value was reduced to bunch the field closer together. They didn't want girls with quads to run away with every event.

There are more quads in women's than ever before. Whatever the intention did not work.

It didn't really work. Entire novice fields in that country have multiple quads in their arsenal. If they are ever readmitted, everything needs to be put in place. Quads undervalued, 17+ age limit for seniors, reduce the number of spins and jumps to give judges more control over scores via the mostly subjective PCS.

But if they are going to undervalue quads, then triples shouldn't be massively overvalued relative to doubles right? I'm just being logical.

I've used the motor racing analogy before if a team brings technical innovations the FIA and F1 will seek to ban them to make the competition closer. It's all about the show.

In motor racing it makes some sense because you would rather have the driver being the determining factor in the results not the car/equipment. In figure skating it's punishing the skater for being too good. It would be like F1 punishing drivers that are too skilled rather than the equipment. Sure bring in rules to stop blade or boot innovation, but don't punish the a girl for the being one of the best skaters in history if she was born with that gift

I would simply do this for women's skating if we want longevity. A blanket ban of quads for junior and senior women. There's no point just banning them in juniors because they will still be learning quads in training in preparation for seniors. It simply needs to be banned. Most senior women have trouble with a lutz and only a few in the world have a triple axel. It makes no real different to senior competition, but just means they don't spend their childhood training them for a window of opportunity when they turn 17.

Also, the senior age needs to be 18 minimum. Children should not be competing with adults.

This would do a lot more to protect skaters than what the ISU are proposing.

Anyway, the 4A is massively undervalued and needs to reflect it's difficulty much like a 3Lz is much more difficult than a 2T so one is worth several times more than than the other.

 

[TallyT]

The base value was reduced to bunch the field closer together. They didn't want girls with quads to run away with every event.

With all due respect, that is specious nonsense. The girls have nothing to do with the 4A. At the time of the reduction in value, only a couple of the men were working towards it, even less were looking viable and the man being scored the highest was not one of them. So nothing in your post is relevant to why they specifically reduced the value of that specific jump.

 

[Mathman]

What is the reason for the skepticism on this thread, for instance posts #6 and 7? Do wehave reason to believe that the videos are doctored and that this skater didn't really do a quad Axel after all?

 

[AlexBreeze]

What is the reason for the skepticism on this thread, for instance posts #6 and 7? Do wehave reason to believe that the videos are doctored and that this skater didn't really do a quad Axel after all?

The skepticism is about this part:
Vladislav and his coach Oleg Tataurov told media that he hadn't attempted the 4A until today.

 

[TontoK]

What is the reason for the skepticism on this thread, for instance posts #6 and 7? Do wehave reason to believe that the videos are doctored and that this skater didn't really do a quad Axel after all?

Do you remember the discussion we shared about the 4 minute mile? And how the barrier, once broken by Roger Bannister, was crossed with regularity?

Same vibe here. We'll see more and more 4A.

 

[Mathman]

I wonder what is the record between the first and the second skater to land a particu;lar jump. For ladies' single Axel, professional skater Charlotte Oelschlagel was doing them in shows in the first decade of the twentieth century, but it was not until the 1920s that Sonja Henie presented one in competition. (Henie could do a 1A-1A sequnce but her technique would not have passed muster by today's standards, being more a pre-rotated airborn spin than what we think of as an Axel jump now.)

By the way, in 1916 Oelschlegel wrote a how-to book about figure skating which was re-issued as an e-book in 2020. You can read it on line for free here:

Hippodrome Skating Book Practical Illustrated Lessons in the Art of Figure Skating

www.gutenberg.org

(The Hippodrome refers to the famous London circus- and theatre venue, where Oelschlagel often performed.)

 

[rabidline]

I wonder what is the record between the first and the second skater to land a particu;lar jump.

If I remember it correctly the last quad before 4A to be landed first in competition was 4Lo by Hanyu in September 2016 (Autumn Classic). It took 5 months for the second skater to land it in competition (Uno in February 2017 at 4CC).

The 4F was similar too, Uno landed it in April 2016 and then Chen landed it in October 2016 (5-6 months).

 

[Amei]

The skepticism is about this part:
Vladislav and his coach Oleg Tataurov told media that he hadn't attempted the 4A until today.

It doesn't surprise me: first day trying it means there's less opportunity for someone to psyche themselves out.

 

[4everchan]

If I remember it correctly the last quad before 4A to be landed first in competition was 4Lo by Hanyu in September 2016 (Autumn Classic). It took 5 months for the second skater to land it in competition (Uno in February 2017 at 4CC).

Nic Nadeau wanted to be the first 4Lo dude... He was injured so he had to wait until Nationals 2017 to land it... which was before Feb 2017 (Jan 2017). He only attempted/landed it once in competition ( I think he got injured again). But yeah, not sure Nationals count and I don't blame anyone for not remembering Nic's quad loop. PS I was at both ACI and Canadian Nationals featuring these quad loops

The 4F was similar too, Uno landed it in April 2016 and then Chen landed it in October 2016 (5-6 months).

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Nic Nadeau wanted to be the first 4Lo dude... He was injured so he had to wait until Nationals 2017 to land it... which was before Feb 2017 (Jan 2017). He only attempted/landed it once in competition ( I think he got injured again). But yeah, not sure Nationals count and I don't blame anyone for not remembering Nic's quad loop. PS I was at both ACI and Canadian Nationals featuring these quad loops

Kevin Reynolds also attempted it a few times. As did krasnozhon (who fully rotated it with step out)

 

[4everchan]

Kevin Reynolds also attempted it a few times. As did krasnozhon (who fully rotated it with step out)

yup... but then if we start talking about those who attempted stuff... we would have a couple more candidates for the 4a too

 

[moonvine]

The base value was reduced to bunch the field closer together. They didn't want girls with quads to run away with every event.

There are more quads in women's than ever before. Whatever the intention did not work.

It didn't really work. Entire novice fields in that country have multiple quads in their arsenal. If they are ever readmitted, everything needs to be put in place. Quads undervalued, 17+ age limit for seniors, reduce the number of spins and jumps to give judges more control over scores via the mostly subjective PCS.

But if they are going to undervalue quads, then triples shouldn't be massively overvalued relative to doubles right? I'm just being logical.

I've used the motor racing analogy before if a team brings technical innovations the FIA and F1 will seek to ban them to make the competition closer. It's all about the show.

In motor racing it makes some sense because you would rather have the driver being the determining factor in the results not the car/equipment. In figure skating it's punishing the skater for being too good. It would be like F1 punishing drivers that are too skilled rather than the equipment. Sure bring in rules to stop blade or boot innovation, but don't punish the a girl for the being one of the best skaters in history if she was born with that gift

I would simply do this for women's skating if we want longevity. A blanket ban of quads for junior and senior women. There's no point just banning them in juniors because they will still be learning quads in training in preparation for seniors. It simply needs to be banned. Most senior women have trouble with a lutz and only a few in the world have a triple axel. It makes no real different to senior competition, but just means they don't spend their childhood training them for a window of opportunity when they turn 17.

Also, the senior age needs to be 18 minimum. Children should not be competing with adults.

This would do a lot more to protect skaters than what the ISU are proposing.

Anyway, the 4A is massively undervalued and needs to reflect it's difficulty much like a 3Lz is much more difficult than a 2T so one is worth several times more than than the other.

Just because a woman has some difficult jumps does not make them “one of the best skaters in history.” Its figure skating, not ice jumping.