As far as Wagner is concerned, she plays it safe all too often. Nicks often tends to want to play it safe, which is a mistake now when tech content is essential to reach the podium in major competitions. In order to have consistent content, you have to put it out there day after day so that you can do it when you need it at important competitions, not back out of it time and again.
Wagner's Olympic Strategy: Play It Safe?
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I hope so but ultimately I think it all depends on the skater. I think Lori could do the same thing. I do not think Lori should choreograph for Gracie but I think Gracie could benefit from working with Lori in terms of her presentation, expression and really listening and feeling the music. I think she has gotten better at performing rather than just skating...but she still has a long way to go. Her deadpan/zoned-out face still makes too many appearances during her skates and her stiffness really needs some work.
She's definitely getting better but most importantly she needs to work on her focus, especially for the SP. She makes way too many mistakes in the SP and even though she can make up a lot of ground in the FS thanks to her content, she always comes up short of gold and that's how it will continue to be until she can get that aspect of her skating together.
Gracie will definitely put the pressure on Ashley next season which means Ashley needs to step it up.
I agree she needs a 3-3 in the SP. I'd like to see the 3L-3T as an alternative to the 3F-3T, though I think working on cranking out that 3F-3T should be her priority this summer. She has a lot of options in terms of her FS so it's up to Team Wagner to figure out what will work best.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Just saying, but there are no direct points even in PCS for facial expression. Only people watching on TV can generally see much of it.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I don't think she has to make facial expressions in order to be "artistic" but there's a difference between a relaxed face and a completely blank face. Gracie goes blank a lot of the time b/c she's thinking her way through her programs. If there were some convincing expression in her movement I'd forgive her vacant facial expression but when the delivery of her choreography matches her face the whole program comes off perfunctory and very rehearsed.
Look at Kanako. She's not big on "ooh" and "aah" faces throughout her program but there is a tension to her movement that portrays an understanding of the character or feeling of her music. It's not very apparent on her face but I can see it in her delivery of the program. That's what Gracie needs to work on to bring her skating to the next level. When she skates well and gets to the end of her program, a light switch flips on and this really happy joy can be seen in her movements. It's really nice! She needs to work on projecting that joy and happiness (that kind of connection to her emotions) during the entire program instead of just the last 30 seconds.
Once she gains some consistency and learns to really perform that girl will be unstoppable.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
blue_idealist, Ralph Lauren makes the Olympic uniforms for the U.S.A. So FlattFan is basically saying that Ashley should bring her best if she wants to go to the Olympics.
I think she's been doing a 3Lo+2A sequence this year, so what about a 3T+3S sequence like Sasha used to do?
And what's the difference between a 3T+2A sequence and 3T/Lo/2A anyway?
I guess I'm missing something. Why would Kaitlyn be the love of her life? On some board some thought it was Andrew.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
the point was that nice facial expressions are a 'nice to have,' not a Pcs requirement.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I know. But performance/execution and interpretation are part of PCS and, despite the mid 7s the judges like to throw her way, she still needs a lot of work in those areas.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEyA2XKRK-U
I just saw this.
The girl's got spunk!! I might even become a fan.
I just saw this.
The girl's got spunk!! I might even become a fan.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Yes, but if you read the rules for PCS, facial expression is not there. Otherwise, Chan would not get the huge PCS scores he does.
Not that Gracie couldn't pick up a half a point or so by improving that, but not that much.
Not that Gracie couldn't pick up a half a point or so by improving that, but not that much.
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- Joined
- Apr 11, 2013
I definitely agree that in skating, expressiveness and artistry in terms of your body and movements are more important than facial expressions, but I always thought that even if facial expressions are not explicitly listed in the PCS, they can have an unspoken effect on the general PCS scores and the "feeling" the judges takes away from the performance overall. I mean, what if someone skated to Schindler's List with a huge pageant queen smile on their face?
Even if judges can't always see the skater's face well, it's a televised sport and they're also performing for audiences at home. So it's pretty important.
Even if judges can't always see the skater's face well, it's a televised sport and they're also performing for audiences at home. So it's pretty important.
I think she needs to continue her work in feeling the music and putting more nuances in her music. I actually think she has excellent timing, but she needs to use that tool more effectively (and her choreography needs to bring that out more).
A bit off-topic, but it has driven me crazy when people on various boards are like "Why is Gracie so joyful and smiley; the movie takes place during the Holocaust!" And it drives me crazy because "Life is Beautiful", yes does take place during the Holocaust, but the whole theme of the movie is about Robert Benigni's character trying to put a joyful attitude so his son could endure the horrors of the concentration camp. I don't know if Gracie is being intentional or not, but I do think the program, when performed well, has sort of a childhood joy to it.
"Life is Beautiful" =/= Schindler's List
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
The marching sequence is probably supposed to be Benigni being marched to his death and portraying the clown for his son, so the son will not be more frightened. And that's the problem with using movie soundtracks. Even if you portray the story well, not everyone will have watched the movie or understood it.
I had no clue how good Belbin & Agosto's Amelie FD was until I watched the movie about 3 years afterward
I had no clue how good Belbin & Agosto's Amelie FD was until I watched the movie about 3 years afterward
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
I had no clue how good Belbin & Agosto's Amelie FD was until I watched the movie about 3 years afterward
Do you think they deserved the Bronze at that Worlds? I feel it's definitely their best FD ever (discounting the tech).
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2013
I know you weren't necessarily referring to me, but when I made the Schindler's List comment it was actually meant as a general comment. I wasn't referring specifically to Gracie's "Life is Beautiful" program, even though we were discussing Gracie. I was actually thinking of a popular youtube video where this girl is doing this interpretive dance to music from "Schindler's List" but she appears to have a smile on her face, which made it kind of awkward for me
I've seen "Life is Beautiful" many times but when I first saw Gracie's skate, I never would have guessed the music was from that film.
No, I definitely was not referring to you. I actually saw your post after I posted mine. Sorry!
My beef was people was saying that Gracie ought to be more forlorn because the movie takes place during the Holocaust, when clearly the movie's whole premise was to show a joyful attitude. That said, did Gracie do a great job being true to the letter of the movie? Probably not.
However, the music is joyful, beautiful. So I don't see why people were fussing about that aspect of the her interpretation rather the fact that she lacked the nuances to skate to this music.
I do think that Gracie's Miss Teen USA pageant smile sometimes is a bit overdone when she skates. Plus did she or her choreographer have a clue what the movie was about or even watch it?
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
I am not sure Wagner is playing it safe or will play it safe. Interesting scenarios. We aren't to gossip but her love or lust life could play a role in her Olympic success. first, she isn't exactly a teen ingenue but her proclaiming her love or lust for Poje may seem pretty stupid in a few years when she is dating some one else or married to someone else. I remember a buddy saying this is the girl for me I know it, God told me so. Six months later he was married to the girl of his dreams - not the girl he proclaimed his love for. but I digress, depending on how the Olympic team competition is done the fact she is dating poje could play into favoring the americans. For example Andrew is excited because he knows his best chance for a medal is in teams but he has to be picked. If Poje calls up excited when he finds out Kaitlyn and him are doing the Short dance and he tells ashley. AShley tells team america and they sub in D and W to ensure the victory in dance. But if they have say the Shibutanis or Chock and Bates the win isn't so clear. the other crazy possibility but highly unlikely is if Poje and Wagner are intimate and she ends up pregnant. Anyways, I am hoping this doesn't happen (any of this but it is a possibility - I mean the sharing of who is skating on the Canadian team to the American (more likely scenario than other way around).
I'm pretty sure, again, Ashley was referring to Kaitlyn, not Andrew in that tweet because it was her birthday, not Andrew's (his is in February). People say stuff like "the love of my life" in a less romantic way too. I'm pretty sure Ashley became good friends with Weaver/Poje after skating with them at Stars on Ice in Canada last year.
So I think we need to stop using that as a factor in our discussions unless we get proof, (ala Gracie Gold's cupcakes to Max Aaron) that she is dating someone.
Okay something of relevance. Phil Hersh posted the following:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjpgtp
So many questions....what exactly did Ashley do for the Olympic programs that made Mills unhappy? Who is going to choreograph her programs now? Will she stick to only Mr. Nicks or get another coach to assist?
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rjpgtp
So many questions....what exactly did Ashley do for the Olympic programs that made Mills unhappy? Who is going to choreograph her programs now? Will she stick to only Mr. Nicks or get another coach to assist?
